Jimmy Johnson was at Valley Ranch

[cowboyjoe]

Why couldn't Jimmy win a Super Bowl with Marino?

He couldn't even come close.

The only thing I think Jimmy would've done was give Romo a shorter leash. But he wanted to get rid of Aikman and make Steve Walsh the franchise QB and Jerry talked him out of it.

I don't think there is a coach as dogged about protecting the ball as Parcells and even he had issues with Romo turning the ball over.

Jimmy got by because Landry drafted Irvin and was set to draft Aikman. He also drafted Tuinea and Newton. Emmitt turned out far better than anybody wildest dreams. Combine those and you had 1/2 of a fantastic offense. IMO, Jimmy's biggest strength was finding very talented, but troubled players and 'scaring them straight' because they thought he was crazy. But the Cowboys' dynasty creation was far more complex than saying 'it was all Jimmy' or 'they didn't have to worry about the salary cap' or whatever. Lots of things from different areas played a part in that success...even Jerry (I really can't think of another owner it would've worked with). So unfortunately, re-hiring Jimmy or finding a 'Jimmy clone' I don't think will work here again.





YAKUZA

jimmy wanted to trade marino like he did with hershel walker but don shula wouldnt let him
would have been like another blockbuster trade and jimmy would have gotten the top picks like he did with dallas in walker trade

then the dolphins would have been a dominant team

think about this
in 89 we got troy aikman, the moose and stepnoski all top picks in each round because we were picking first
then we got alvin harper, emmitt smith, darren woodson and erik williams with russell maryland with some of those picks
we also got charles haley in there somewhere, with all of those picks that allowed us to trade for haley with those extra picks we had using our own picks

in there somewhere we also got kevin smith a top cb till he tore his achilles
you build through the draft, thats what jimmy wanted to do but don shula wouldnt let him

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Do you have a source or link to whomever said this? I've never heard that Jerry talked him out of getting rid of Aikman.

(I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to start an argument, I'm geniunely curious how you know this)

It's pretty well known back then.

Jerry kept Troy, probably in large part for what they were paying him. Jimmy brought in Walsh, then Beuerlein. Jimmy back then didn't understand what rebuilding meant. We only went 7-5 in '91 with Aikman and went 4-0 with Beuerlein. Jimmy wanted Beuerlein, but Jerry and Norv told him that Troy was the guy.




YAKUZA

 

[big dog cowboy]

jimmy wanted to trade marino like he did with hershel walker but don shula wouldnt let him
would have been like another blockbuster trade and jimmy would have gotten the top picks like he did with dallas in walker trade

then the dolphins would have been a dominant team

In your opinion. Getting high picks like we did in the Walker deal doesn't guarantee anything. To say they would have been "dominant" is reaching.

 

[rynochop]

In your opinion. Getting high picks like we did in the Walker deal doesn't guarantee anything. To say they would have been "dominant" is reaching.

And werent Jimmys picks while he was there pretty mediocre, or bad? I honestly dont know, just thought i read that once.

 

[burmafrd]

Jimmy hit on aout 1/3 of his picks like good ones do. Difference is that he had so many picks that it looked a lot better then it was.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

so far

2009 Cowboys offense >>>>> 2009 Cowboys defense

and its not even remotely close

maybe Jimmy can be Mr Fix it for Wade's defense too

There is no doubt. Did you think I disagreed about that? Or were you just trying to gig me?

The two things are totally independent of each other. The defense has to be better, and the offense has to stop turning the ball over.

 

[dbair1967]

It's pretty well known back then.

Jerry kept Troy, probably in large part for what they were paying him. Jimmy brought in Walsh, then Beuerlein. Jimmy back then didn't understand what rebuilding meant. We only went 7-5 in '91 with Aikman and went 4-0 with Beuerlein. Jimmy wanted Beuerlein, but Jerry and Norv told him that Troy was the guy.




YAKUZA

And like I said above in this thread, this isnt true. There was no cap then, they could have cut or traded Aikman had they wanted with no negative impact.

The fact is when Aikman got hurt in 89, Walsh started some games and as soon as Aikman was healthy, he was back as the starter. The next season Walsh was traded to the Saints.

They went and got Buerlien as a backup to Aikman in response to Laufenberg's disastrous finish to the 1990 season, which cost the Cowboys a playoff spot. Jimmy swore he'd never go without a proven backup again after that happened.

Immediately after the playoff loss in 1991 to Detroit, Johnson publicly stated there was no QB controversy or competition for the following season.

 

[dbair1967]

I never once suggested he did...

He calls the plays, and he made some horrible calls in that game

Rigghhhhhttttttt.

 

[Dodger12]

It's pretty well known back then.

Jerry kept Troy, probably in large part for what they were paying him. Jimmy brought in Walsh, then Beuerlein. Jimmy back then didn't understand what rebuilding meant. We only went 7-5 in '91 with Aikman and went 4-0 with Beuerlein. Jimmy wanted Beuerlein, but Jerry and Norv told him that Troy was the guy.

YAKUZA

Jimmy brought in Beuerlein to replace Babe Laughenberg, not Aikman. In 1990, Aikman led the team to within one win of the playoffs before he got hurt and Babe came in and was ineffective.

Jimmy was extremely loyal to his Miami players and took Walsh in the first round of the supplemental draft. For all the Jerry vs Jimmy debates, the Walsh pick is all the evidence anyone needs to prove who was running the draft room and football operations back in that day. Jimmy had questions if Aikman could lead the team to the SB. He could have also stayed with Beuerlein against Detroit in playoffs or the start of the 1992 season. But Aikman's measureables were off the charts. To say or insinuate that Jerry forced Jimmy to play Troy is hogwash in that Jerry should have/could have ordered Jimmy not to bring in Walsh in the first place.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

And like I said above in this thread, this isnt true. There was no cap then, they could have cut or traded Aikman had they wanted with no negative impact.

It still costs Jerry money. And believe it or not, Jerry doesn't like wasting money.





YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

To say or insinuate that Jerry forced Jimmy to play Troy is hogwash in that Jerry should have/could have ordered Jimmy not to bring in Walsh in the first place.

Contrary to popular belief, Jerry has always given his coaches a lot, but not all of the personnel they wanted. After Jimmy, he gave Gailey the 2 WR's he wanted and then Chris Warren to backup Emmitt (what Gailey wanted as well). Campo came along and after getting out of cap hell, he got Campo Glover, Kevin Hardy, and Roy Williams as Campo wanted to create a defensively strong team.

Walsh was originally brought in to backup Troy. Then Jimmy wanted to play him in place of Troy but Jerry told him otherwise. When Beuerlein came in and went undefeated as a starter, Jimmy kept believing that Troy wasn't the guy, but Jerry and Norv sold him on Troy again.

I don't disagree with what Jimmy said about Romo, but I believe thinking we would've won a SB in '07 with Jimmy is wishful thinking. And the playcalling wasn't the problem with Romo in the Giants game. He just stunk the joint up. If there's one thing I do believe about Jimmy is that if Romo had continued to have this problem with turning the ball over with Jimmy, he would have either found a way to eradicate the problem...either motivating Romo to stop turning the ball over or find a replacement for him.





YAKUZA

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Where exactly did i say never attempt another pass?
it's not rocket science if the D is playing the pass and you have the lead run the damn ball, does that 50/50 balance really look that much better then a W?

Romo had the worst game of his carer he wasn't going to win that game, in fact he was the main reason why NY was even in that game, you really don't have to be a coach to see that putting that game in his hands at that point in the game was a horrible call and probably cost us the W

OK, so you're going to eliminate your 2-time probowl QB from your offense- nice.

And in the second half the ratio was closer to 60/40 towards the run.

You can't run every single down. That's what's you're inferring the Cowboys should have done.

 

[odog422]

The way I see it, the head coach is the guy that is ultamately responsible for the performance of the team. That is just the way it is.

Wade is so gone after this season.

Agreed. Without making this into a Jerry bashing thread, what disturbs me most is just the waste. The waste of time, effort and talent accompanying decisions like hiring Wade, moreso keeping him after last season's debacle of an ending to the season.

My list, of course, could go on and on about decisions from the top, but suffice to say it does me or anyone else no good.

I suppose my trip to the opener was just a reaffirmation of what I've come to believe about what my team will do this year and beyond, in the near future, because the same has played out repeatedly for a while now.

I have a little creed that serves me well while supporting my favorite team of all time while under this stewardship - lower my expectations and raise my acceptance. Bodes me well til that day comes when my Boys are back where they belong on top of the NFL heap.

 

[Bach]

Jimmy hit on aout 1/3 of his picks like good ones do. Difference is that he had so many picks that it looked a lot better then it was.

He was smart enough to stockpile picks and then hit on a good portion of them. Unlike since he's been gone, where Jerry will give us multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks and miss on all of them.

 

[Big Country]

Oh, no doubt about it. And everybody would be to scared to make stupid penalties and turnovers. He also would hire someone to work closely with Romo to exorcise him of his bad decisions (a Norv Turner type).

That being said, there's no doubt in my mind that we could've beaten Seattle with Parcells and we could've beaten NYG with Phillips. Both of those games were winnable. Player mistakes lost them both.

I agree BMC. But it seems like when they make a bonehead mistake, it costs them, they lose focus, and they are too hard to overcome. Plus Dallas would have been able to hold on and not get embarrassed by the Ravens in that last game in Tx Stadium. same scenario for NYG in the opening of Cowboys Stadium.

totally agree, if jimmy was coaching in 2007, we won have won the superbowl

I agree cowboyjoe.

 

[CF74]

so far

2009 Cowboys offense >>>>> 2009 Cowboys defense

and its not even remotely close

Well from a casual observation that may appear to be the case but you have to factor in how the offense is hurting the defense with:

1) Turnovers
2) Bad Field Position
3) Losing Time of Possession Battle

It's a team sport so your analysis is skewed my friend. It's probably more realistic to say the strength and weakness of this team is the offense. If the offense is protecting the ball we win, if not, well we keep other teams in the game...

 

[dbair1967]

Well from a casual observation that may appear to be the case but you have to factor in how the offense is hurting the defense with:

1) Turnovers
2) Bad Field Position
3) Losing Time of Possession Battle

It's a team sport so your analysis is skewed my friend. It's probably more realistic to say the strength and weakness of this team is the offense. If the offense is protecting the ball we win, if not, well we keep other teams in the game...

The only thing the offense hurt the defense with was the turnovers last week, they didnt have in any in week one, so the defense cant use that as an excuse. And all those picks were on the QB.

The kicking and punting has been exceptional as well. Other than 1 of Romo's picks and the fumbled return by Jones, teams havent been working on short fields.

 

[khiladi]

Free-agency destroyed the Cowboys dynasty...

 

[dbair1967]

Walsh was originally brought in to backup Troy. Then Jimmy wanted to play him in place of Troy but Jerry told him otherwise. When Beuerlein came in and went undefeated as a starter, Jimmy kept believing that Troy wasn't the guy, but Jerry and Norv sold him on Troy again.

Thats not why Walsh was drafted. Jimmy drafted Walsh because he had studied the draft and found out that 1st rd pick QB's werenjt always locks. He wanted to create competition there and believed he greatly improved the chances of hitting at QB because they had two guys instead of just one. He also said he always knew he'd be able to deal the 2nd guy for multiple picks, and he was right. There wasnt much doubt after that first training camp and preseason that Aikman was the guy, and thats why Walsh never got a real chance to win the job, even after he started several games and was the winning QB in our only game that yr.

And Buerlien was brought in as the backup, and backup only.

Your story sounds like alot of Skip Bayless stuff, and 99% of the stuff he wrote proved to be untrue.

 

[CF74]

The only thing the offense hurt the defense with was the turnovers last week, they didnt have in any in week one, so the defense cant use that as an excuse. And all those picks were on the QB.

The kicking and punting has been exceptional as well. Other than 1 of Romo's picks and the fumbled return by Jones, teams havent been working on short fields.

Let's focus on stronger teams here, Tampa is rebuilding. You don't think multiple 1-2-3-punts didn't hurt our defense? We don't sustain many drives and that does affect field position as well as time on the field. The offense isn't exactly helping the defense here...