JJT: Jason Garrett needs new approach to right kind of guys

[Stash]

Yes you get confident when your defense can actually stop someone and put the ball back in your hands. Dallas was not getting turnovers for him but Houston was. It is a lot less pressure when you do not feel as if you must score every time knowing defense can come in and get you the ball right back.

Or maybe if you're getting better coaching?

 

[Stash]

If we're doing this, don't forget the blown coverage in overtime after Weeden's impressive game-tieing drive at the end of regulation. So frustrating.

No doubt. Those losses were a combination of letdowns from both sides of the ball. When the offense did their part, the defense failed them, and when the defense played well, the offense was awful. A perfect storm of horrible...

 

[Doomsday101]

It wasn't anyone who "didn't want Murray back", it was an organizational decision based on finances. But they made their decisions and had an offseason to decide on replacements. And they chose poorly. They didn't get stuck with Randle due to injury,, they chose poorly.



Jimmy also won when he did have 'his guys'. And he won big, and he won ultimately. That's why he gets that benefit of the doubt. Garrett never has, so he doesn't.

And nobody is expecting Garrett to "do more", just to do something.

Jimmy did win not saying he didn't which is why I said the comparison was not meant to be equal, I know Jimmy is a better HC and I also know when his top guys were not there his team struggled. Emmitt misses 1st 2 games of the season and we can't win. Jimmy was all upset talking after the Buffalo loss looked like he was about to cry, Haley puts his helmet through the wall and following week Emmitt is back and we are winning yet I am told injury or holdout are no excuse yet you can't replace people like them and when they are missing or injured in can have a major effect on the team just as it did for Jimmy. So why then is Jason being expected to be more than what Jimmy was in the same situation?

I don't know what Jason future will be, this season will likely go a long way in determining that but unlike some fans I think Jason understand and knows this game a lot more than upset fans same fans who would praise a guy like Aikman then boo him late in his career. Fans are very quick to throw coaches and players under the bus without looking any all circumstances taking place. It is easy for fans to say there is no excuse reality is you can't just dial 1-800 star player to replace key people

 

[Doomsday101]

Or maybe if you're getting better coaching?

yeah the defense does not matter. Houston has relied on the defense and continues to have problems at QB so is it great coaching or the fact they have a defense they must lean on. Living in Houston and around the Houston faithful I don't think you will find many who think it is great offensive coaching. They know as do I what makes their team win

 

[Stash]

Jimmy did win not saying he didn't which is why I said the comparison was not meant to be equal, I know Jimmy is a better HC and I also know when his top guys were not there his team struggled. Emmitt misses 1st 2 games of the season and we can't win. Jimmy was all upset talking after the Buffalo loss looked like he was about to cry, Haley puts his helmet through the wall and following week Emmitt is back and we are winning yet I am told injury or holdout are no excuse yet you can't replace people like them and when they are missing or injured in can have a major effect on the team just as it did for Jimmy. So why then is Jason being expected to be more than what Jimmy was in the same situation?

The example you're using was 2 games. How do you want to compare that to Garrett's entire tenure?

I don't know what Jason future will be, this season will likely go a long way in determining that but unlike some fans I think Jason understand and knows this game a lot more than upset fans same fans who would praise a guy like Aikman then boo him late in his career. Fans are very quick to throw coaches and players under the bus without looking any all circumstances taking place. It is easy for fans to say there is no excuse reality is you can't just dial 1-800 star player to replace key people

And there would be nothing "quick" about ending the Jason Garrett era. This organization has been understanding and patient to a fault. He's been given more opportunity, chances and resources than anyone could ask for. If he's fired after another disappointing season, it will be far from a "quick" decision.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I can go on and on, too. But the bottom line is that from top to bottom both the team and the management are behind Jason and support his leadership publicly from all angles. It's the fans who don't like the won/loss records who assume the shortcomings are with the coaching and the leadership.

The management may be behind Garrett, but the players are mostly playing because it's a great job that is in a sport they love. We've seen time after time where Garrett has been unable to motivate players.

If win-loss records are not in large part due to coaching, regardless of what the team is, I don't know what one can blame. Garrett has a real faculty for that...starting the blame game when things are not working.

I look at somebody like Jim Harbaugh, who turned around a moribund franchise in 1-year and kept it going. He left and the 49ers fell apart. Or the job that Ron Rivera has done in Carolina that went 1-15 prior to him coming there. Did they need backup QB's for success? Why were they able to get playmakers on defense and Garrett cannot?

Harbaugh and Rivera are far better coaches than Garrett and by and large their players respect them for it.





YR

 

[Doomsday101]

The example you're using was 2 games. How do you want to compare that to Garrett's entire tenure?



And there would be nothing "quick" about ending the Jason Garrett era. This organization has been understanding and patient to a fault. He's been given more opportunity, chances and resources than anyone could ask for. If he's fired after another disappointing season, it will be far from a "quick" decision.

Because Emmitt would not miss another game that season but again when he or Troy or Mike were out the team struggled. Health was a big key for those team, none of the guys missed much time until later in their careers and Jimmy was long gone but over the period when Jimmy was here the team struggled when any of the triplets missed games.

I think Jerry has stood by Jason who is currently 46 and 44 as HC and 1-1 in post season. We both agree Jason has to win. Just like a player has to produce, a player can have all the talent in the world but if injured all the time he will eventually lose his job same for a HC his job is to win and even if he is dealing with outside issues of player or injury bug he is still expected to win and if not he will end up losing his job.

I have never said Jason is untouchable his job is to get this team winning and competing for a championship no matter what.

My comments are in regards to last season, I have seen growth with this team and changes that needed to be made I have an OL revamped from little talent to one of the best in the NFL so it is not as if the Cowboys have shown nothing and I think 2014 season showed the direction they were moving was the right one, then comes 2015, top RB gone, Franchise QB out for most of the year and star WR who was paid as a top 3 WR goes down and struggles with injury so do I see a correlation between what they faced in 2015 as opposed to vast improvements of 2014 sure I do

 

[Idgit]

The management may be behind Garrett, but the players are mostly playing because it's a great job that is in a sport they love. We've seen time after time where Garrett has been unable to motivate players.

If win-loss records are not in large part due to coaching, regardless of what the team is, I don't know what one can blame. Garrett has a real faculty for that...starting the blame game when things are not working.

I look at somebody like Jim Harbaugh, who turned around a moribund franchise in 1-year and kept it going. He left and the 49ers fell apart. Or the job that Ron Rivera has done in Carolina that went 1-15 prior to him coming there. Did they need backup QB's for success? Why were they able to get playmakers on defense and Garrett cannot?

Harbaugh and Rivera are far better coaches than Garrett and by and large their players respect them for it.

YR

The players respect and play hard for him. The team lacks defensive talent. I have no idea what you mean when you suggest our players lack motivation.

As far as other coaches go, I agree that Harbaugh is a better coach. He comes with a shelf-life, but he delivers.

I know you're a Rivera fan, and it's easy to see they've got a good team. I'm not familiar enough with CAR to have a good opinion on the coaching. I'm a big believer though that personnel wins in the NFL where there are so many quality coaches. And I know for a fact that we've had personnel problems our front office continues to fail to address. That CAR team is stocked with big fast players who can tackle and they get productivity from the QB. Those things make a coach's job pretty easy.

 

[Cowboy06]

fear and respect is a great motivator...From your starters to your practice squad.

 

[Stash]

yeah the defense does not matter.

Moot point. That claim was never made.

Houston has relied on the defense and continues to have problems at QB so is it great coaching or the fact they have a defense they must lean on. Living in Houston and around the Houston faithful I don't think you will find many who think it is great offensive coaching. They know as do I what makes their team win

I'll disagree with that. Bill O'Brien is a highly-respected coach, specifically regarding his work with quarterbacks. See Christian Hackenberg's one year with him as a recent example.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Once again...I will say it for the 1000th time. Garrett's philosophical approach to winning football games can work...IF....IF....you are a disciplinarian and a motivator. Garrett is not. He is also not an 'X' and 'O' guy. He is not trying to trick anyone. He is trying to "beat the man in front of you" kind of guy. So we got a 5m head coach...who does not "scheme" it up.....or instill enough fear for players to consistently "beat the guy in front of you".

He has shown he is terrible at clock management. I think he is terrible at managing the game....no feel for momentum....when his team needs to go for the jugular...when to let the other team beat themselves.

It might not be a popular opinion around here...but Romo going down last year sealed for me what I already knew about the guy. And no....I don't think we should've made the playoffs without Romo....I don't think we should have went 8-8 without Romo....but we could not even SCORE....heck we could not even get First downs! How much more do some of you all need to see to be convinced we have a guy better suited for college....or a NFL front office?

 

[Doomsday101]

Moot point. That claim was never made.



I'll disagree with that. Bill O'Brien is a highly-respected coach, specifically regarding his work with quarterbacks. See Christian Hackenberg's one year with him as a recent example.

You can disagree but he is second guess here in Houston all the time just as Garrett is second guess all the time.

As for the defense I don't see it as a moot point it played a big role in taking the pressure off of Weeden knowing he was not going to carry the team to win, his job was avoiding mistakes.

 

[Stash]

Because Emmitt would not miss another game that season but again when he or Troy or Mike were out the team struggled. Health was a big key for those team, none of the guys missed much time until later in their careers and Jimmy was long gone but over the period when Jimmy was here the team struggled when any of the triplets missed games.

Actually, that's not true. When Aikman missed time, Jimmy still won. With Steve Buerlein and with Bernie Kosar.

I think Jerry has stood by Jason who is currently 46 and 44 as HC and 1-1 in post season. We both agree Jason has to win. Just like a player has to produce, a player can have all the talent in the world but if injured all the time he will eventually lose his job same for a HC his job is to win and even if he is dealing with outside issues of player or injury bug he is still expected to win and if not he will end up losing his job.

I have never said Jason is untouchable his job is to get this team winning and competing for a championship no matter what.

Totally agree.

My comments are in regards to last season, I have seen growth with this team and changes that needed to be made I have an OL revamped from little talent to one of the best in the NFL so it is not as if the Cowboys have shown nothing and I think 2014 season showed the direction they were moving was the right one, then comes 2015, top RB gone, Franchise QB out for most of the year and star WR who was paid as a top 3 WR goes down and struggles with injury so do I see a correlation between what they faced in 2015 as opposed to vast improvements of 2014 sure I do

I do too. And that's why I'm fine giving him a mulligan for 2014. While I would have liked to see more from him, he was certainly dealt a tough hand.

But, in stepping back and looking at the entire body of work and the current landscape of the NFL, where players and teams change quickly and often, it's time to expect results, no matter what else happens. Barring losing Romo again for the year, Garrett simply has to find a way to win games. Enough games to win the division, and enough games to be competitive in the playoffs at minimum.

Players, schemes, and coaches have changed enough around him that the time for excuses is over.

Time to produce, or time to find another coach who will.

 

[Stash]

You can disagree but he is second guess here in Houston all the time just as Garrett is second guess all the time.

As for the defense I don't see it as a moot point it played a big role in taking the pressure off of Weeden knowing he was not going to carry the team to win, his job was avoiding mistakes.

It's moot because I never claimed it wasn't a factor. It was high a factor in his win in Houston, and in his loss against the Falcons. He did what he needed to do in order to win that game too.

 

[Doomsday101]

Actually, that's not true. When Aikman missed time, Jimmy still won. With Steve Buerlein and with Bernie Kosar.



Totally agree.



I do too. And that's why I'm fine giving him a mulligan for 2014. While I would have liked to see more from him, he was certainly dealt a tough hand.

But, in stepping back and looking at the entire body of work and the current landscape of the NFL, where players and teams change quickly and often, it's time to expect results, no matter what else happens. Barring losing Romo again for the year, Garrett simply has to find a way to win games. Enough games to win the division, and enough games to be competitive in the playoffs at minimum.

Players, schemes, and coaches have changed enough around him that the time for excuses is over.

Time to produce, or time to find another coach who will.

I did not say they never won without Troy. heck Garrett was able to win with backup QB for a short period but when the QB is missing for the most part the entire season that is a bit much especially when the backup does not have the other parts around him that can help.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The players respect and play hard for him. The team lacks defensive talent. I have no idea what you mean when you suggest our players lack motivation.

A player like Randle that is gifted a job and throws it away lacks motivation. A player like Gregory who is already serving a 4-game suspension, lacks motivation. The same with Ro. McClain...who not only served a suspension, but came back out-of-shape. Seeing JJ Wilcox loaf and pout around there is a lack of motivation. Terrance Williams still being a pure body catcher is a lack of motivation. Claiborne taking 4 years to figure out how to watch film is at the very least, a severe lack of urgency. Beasley having Twitter wars against fans, repeatedly, is a lack of leadership.

I don't expect any team to be perfect, but when it's a constant issue with players throughout the roster, it's clear that in general there's a lack of respect for a coach that the players generally feel brings little to the table.





YR

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Like Ro McClain who got a drug suspension and was terribly out of shape when he came back?

Or the lack of effort from players like Wilcox when it comes to tackling?

Or how it took FOUR YEARS for Claiborne to learn how to watch game film?

Or the debacle that Joseph Randle was this year after being given the starting RB spot?

Or how Kyle Orton couldn't wait to get out of here...to play in Buffalo? Or how Brandon Weeden did nothing but knock Garrett after he went to Houston?






YR

Yea, the pro Garrett crowd is always telling everybody that "playing hard for Garrett = tremendous unparalleled respect for the HC" and its proof of his masterful grasp on coaching and things will turn around because its inevitable. Yet we hear that Callahan called Garrett a part of the female anatomy, and we know he couldnt wait to get out of Dallas. And Hardy called Garrett that as well in the locker room in front of the team. The pro Garrett crowd claims thats all just rumor, as if it couldnt be possible since the guy that garners such admiration and respect by everyone at VR.

BTW, when did Weeden knock Garrett? I dont remember that happening. Or, what did he say? I dont doubt it, just dont remember.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

BTW, when did Weeden knock Garrett? I dont remember that happening. Or, what did he say? I dont doubt it, just dont remember.

I think it was after he led the Texans to victory. He didn't call out Garrett per say, but knocked the Cowboys basically implying that the scheme and playcalling was so predictable and conservative that it hurt him.

I don't know of anybody that really respects Garrett on the team. I don't think even Romo respects him. I think he likes him as a friend and respects him as a friend. But, respect as a friend and respect as a coach are two different things. And it's like any other job, if you bring a new boss in you never know what you're going to get...so if this boss isn't a pain in your arse, you're happy to have him. Doesn't mean you respect him.

Of course, winning helps with that...but at this moment this is a team that has zero respect for him. And idiot hack writers like JJT take the easy way out by saying a coach has to be feared. It's about respect and the coach has to be good enough to earn the players' respect. All of the fear in the world does you no good. Nobody is in fear of being cut from a bad team with a bad coach because they can always be signed by another team.

And if Hardy did call out Garrett...good for him. That PC/word police nonsense needs to take a hike. Not a great coach in football history out there that was worried about being politically correct.





YR

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I think it was after he led the Texans to victory. He didn't call out Garrett per say, but knocked the Cowboys basically implying that the scheme and playcalling was so predictable and conservative that it hurt him.

I don't know of anybody that really respects Garrett on the team. I don't think even Romo respects him. I think he likes him as a friend and respects him as a friend. But, respect as a friend and respect as a coach are two different things. And it's like any other job, if you bring a new boss in you never know what you're going to get...so if this boss isn't a pain in your arse, you're happy to have him. Doesn't mean you respect him.

Of course, winning helps with that...but at this moment this is a team that has zero respect for him. And idiot hack writers like JJT take the easy way out by saying a coach has to be feared. It's about respect and the coach has to be good enough to earn the players' respect. All of the fear in the world does you no good. Nobody is in fear of being cut from a bad team with a bad coach because they can always be signed by another team.

And if Hardy did call out Garrett...good for him. That PC/word police nonsense needs to take a hike. Not a great coach in football history out there that was worried about being politically correct.





YR

A lot of lousy coaches are "liked" by their players. Its prob a beneficial thing, but doesnt indicate anything really when it comes to success on the field. Lots of coaches have been let go even when players lobbied for the coach to stay. Its about respect. And a certain element of fear about the job or playing time has to be there, but to what degree is open to debate.

 

[Idgit]

Yea, the pro Garrett crowd is always telling everybody that "playing hard for Garrett = tremendous unparalleled respect for the HC" and its proof of his masterful grasp on coaching and things will turn around because its inevitable. Yet we hear that Callahan called Garrett a part of the female anatomy, and we know he couldnt wait to get out of Dallas. And Hardy called Garrett that as well in the locker room in front of the team. The pro Garrett crowd claims thats all just rumor, as if it couldnt be possible since the guy that garners such admiration and respect by everyone at VR.

BTW, when did Weeden knock Garrett? I dont remember that happening. Or, what did he say? I dont doubt it, just dont remember.

You're exaggerating and mis-stating the arguments.

And, yes, the claims that a coach and a player called him names are rumors. What's not a rumor is that neither of those guys are with the organization anymore, and one of them is out of football right now.

And Weeden defended his performance in Dallas saying it was part of the plan. He wasn't criticizing the coaching. He did criticize Jerry Jones, who had publicly called him out earlier and deserved it.

I think it was after he led the Texans to victory. He didn't call out Garrett per say, but knocked the Cowboys basically implying that the scheme and playcalling was so predictable and conservative that it hurt him.

I don't know of anybody that really respects Garrett on the team. I don't think even Romo respects him. I think he likes him as a friend and respects him as a friend. But, respect as a friend and respect as a coach are two different things. And it's like any other job, if you bring a new boss in you never know what you're going to get...so if this boss isn't a pain in your arse, you're happy to have him. Doesn't mean you respect him.

Of course, winning helps with that...but at this moment this is a team that has zero respect for him. And idiot hack writers like JJT take the easy way out by saying a coach has to be feared. It's about respect and the coach has to be good enough to earn the players' respect. All of the fear in the world does you no good. Nobody is in fear of being cut from a bad team with a bad coach because they can always be signed by another team.

And if Hardy did call out Garrett...good for him. That PC/word police nonsense needs to take a hike. Not a great coach in football history out there that was worried about being politically correct.


YR

Here's what he said:

“Obviously you guys (media) are beating a dead horse talking about throwing the ball underneath,” Weeden said Wednesday. “That was our plan all along. You look back, were there a couple times maybe I could have thrown the ball to outside receivers given the plays that were called? There were maybe one or two that I could have thrown out there.”

If you don't know of anybody who respects this coach, then you're just not paying attention or just want to hear it. There's no other explanation because it's a matter of public record. If Hardy did, in fact, call the coach names...so what? He's a grown man, it's football. Not the first time that word has been used in a locker room. Won't be the last. Hardy's still off the team and his issues in Dallas last year contributed to that and to him being out of football. Maybe he waited too long to learn not to cross his head coach.