Joe Gibbs - The greatest coach in the history of the NFC East?

[jday]

??

The whose the better coach in NFCE history is alot like my daddy can beat up your daddy. No offense intended, just could care less what ESPN or anyone thinks whose better. In fact, I don't even care who was better. In my mind, it simply doesn't matter.

 

[KJJ]

so we can just do away with the regular season altogether. allow more people in the playoffs, and the greatest coaches are the last one standing.

I disagree strongly. I find a shortened season and an increase in playoff participants increases the luck factor, not the skill factor

There's a luck factor winning a SB during a normal undisrupted season. What happened during the 82 strike season was something the NFL had never experienced and every team in the league had to play under the same circumstances. Play was stopped and teams had a few weeks to scramble to put together scab teams with NFL rejects to try and keep their season afloat until the dispute was settled. A situation like that is where coaching really comes into play. Increased playoff participants decreases the odds on reaching the SB because it's do or die in the playoffs and anything can happen when you have to contend with more teams. Despite the strike Washington finished the regular season with the best record in the NFC at 8-1 tied with the Raiders for the best overall record. The Cowboys had one of the better scab teams in 82 and reached the NFC title game vs Washington.

They had just as good a chance as the Skins to win the SB that season but got dominated in the title game. Winning a SB during a strike season doesn't take away from the accomplishment because every team was in the same boat and had the same chance. Gibbs won 2 SB's during strike seasons and one during a normal undisrupted season and you don't win 3 SB's by being lucky. Practically every team that's won a SB with an average QB was led by a dominate defense. Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 different average QB's on teams that had potent top 5 offenses.

 

[KJJ]

I disagree strongly. I find a shortened season and an increase in playoff participants increases the luck factor, not the skill factor

That's a pretty ridiculous comment you couldn't have possibly given it much thought. Adding more teams equals mostly luck and no skill in the playoffs? Had the Cowboys won the SB in that strike shortened 82 season would you be trying to diminish the accomplishment? Of course you wouldn't but we're talking about Joe Gibbs and the hated Commanders. By the time the playoffs started that season every team was back to full strength and it became do or die just like it always is during the playoffs.

 

[tyke1doe]

I put Landry over Gibbs not only because of longevity and more Super Bowl appearances but because two of the Commanders Super Bowl victories came during strike seasons. I put an asterisks by the two because the season likely would have been different had there been no-strike season.

Landry
Gibbs
Johnson
Parcells
Coughlin
Reid
Vermeil (because his Super Bowl victory came with the Rams)
Allen

 

[Eric_Boyer]

That's a pretty ridiculous comment you couldn't have possibly given it much thought. Adding more teams equals mostly luck and no skill in the playoffs?

reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong point.

 

[KJJ]

reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong point.

I got what you said just left out the shortened season part but it doesn't change the fact it was a ridiculous comment. How does having a shortened season and an increase in playoff participants increase the luck factor? Because of the shortened season and the fact teams were forced to play games with scab players the NFL formulated what they felt was a fair playoff system allowing 8 teams with the best records from each conference to make the playoffs. Giving 16 teams an opportunity made it more difficult to reach the SB. Despite Washington having the best record in the NFC at 8-1 they had to win 3 playoff games to reach the SB when normally a #1 seeded team during an undisrupted season would only have to win 2 playoff games to reach the SB. The more playoff games you have to play lessens your chance of reaching the SB.

 

[BAT]

LOL it wasn't Stephen A Smith. Look I can't stand the guy just like most people but every time somebody says something anti-Cowboys which this really wasn't we always blame SAS. It was Peter Rosenberg of New York hip hop station Hot97 who said it. He is co-hosting the Ryan Rusillo show with Rusillo. Rosenberg is a hack so it's not surprising that he gave this opinion without much thought.

Rosenberg is also a huge Commanders' fan.

 

[Craig]

Couldnt resist the bait. Were talking about it so he did his job.

 

[Plankton]

There's a luck factor winning a SB during a normal undisrupted season. What happened during the 82 strike season was something the NFL had never experienced and every team in the league had to play under the same circumstances. Play was stopped and teams had a few weeks to scramble to put together scab teams with NFL rejects to try and keep their season afloat until the dispute was settled. A situation like that is where coaching really comes into play. Increased playoff participants decreases the odds on reaching the SB because it's do or die in the playoffs and anything can happen when you have to contend with more teams. Despite the strike Washington finished the regular season with the best record in the NFC at 8-1 tied with the Raiders for the best overall record. The Cowboys had one of the better scab teams in 82 and reached the NFC title game vs Washington.

They had just as good a chance as the Skins to win the SB that season but got dominated in the title game. Winning a SB during a strike season doesn't take away from the accomplishment because every team was in the same boat and had the same chance. Gibbs won 2 SB's during strike seasons and one during a normal undisrupted season and you don't win 3 SB's by being lucky. Practically every team that's won a SB with an average QB was led by a dominate defense. Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 different average QB's on teams that had potent top 5 offenses.

There were no replacement players in the 1982 strike. They just cancelled seven games. Replacement players were used in the 1987 strike.

 

[perrykemp]

and Landry changed the game of football by inventing both the 4-3 D and The Flex D and also had major offensive innovations. What did Gibbs create?

The fun bunch. The hogs. The smurfs.

The Flex D and major offensive innovations pale in comparison to the smurfs my friend.

 

[hornitosmonster]

More ESPN nonsense. They sure know how to rile up Cowboys fans.

 

[JohnsKey19]

While i disagree with him being #1, he's definitely in the conversation.

 

[landroverking]

Just FYI there were no replacement players in 1982.

 

[burmafrd]

There were no replacement players in the 1982 strike. They just cancelled seven games. Replacement players were used in the 1987 strike.

facts never matter to those like KJJ. Remember he is a notorious Romo hater and they are completely impervious to facts and reality

 

[Sydla]

I put Landry over Gibbs not only because of longevity and more Super Bowl appearances but because two of the Commanders Super Bowl victories came during strike seasons. I put an asterisks by the two because the season likely would have been different had there been no-strike season.

Landry
Gibbs
Johnson
Parcells
Coughlin
Reid
Vermeil (because his Super Bowl victory came with the Rams)
Allen

Someone needs to really explain the logic of holding the strike seasons against Gibbs. Everyone played under the same circumstances. Washington won 11 games in the strike shortened 1987 season, which was the most in the NFL regular season that year. Not sure how one can conclude the season would have been different if there had been no strike.

In 1982, there was only a 9 game regular season and the Skins went 8-1 and were the top seed in an expanded playoffs. So again, curious as to why the season would have definitely been different if they had played a full 16 game schedule. It's not like the Skins "sneaked" into the playoffs where a few more games might have caused them to miss the playoffs. They were the best team in the NFC that year.

 

[perrykemp]

Someone needs to really explain the logic of holding the strike seasons against Gibbs. Everyone played under the same circumstances. Washington won 11 games in the strike shortened 1987 season, which was the most in the NFL regular season that year. Not sure how one can conclude the season would have been different if there had been no strike.

In 1982, there was only a 9 game regular season and the Skins went 8-1 and were the top seed in an expanded playoffs. So again, curious as to why the season would have definitely been different if they had played a full 16 game schedule. It's not like the Skins "sneaked" into the playoffs where a few more games might have caused them to miss the playoffs. They were the best team in the NFC that year.

I agree that holding Gibb's Superbowls victories achieve during shortened seasons against him is ridiculous.

I can guarantee you this wouldn't been the line of argument if the Cowboys had won in those two years.

All 28 team where playing under the same rules those seasons.

 

[Sydla]

By the way, where did this story come that the Cowboys made the playoffs 20 straight years come from? That's not true. They had a winning record for 20 straight years but missed the playoffs in 1974 with an 8-6 record and then missed the playoffs again in 1984 with a 9-7 record.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I agree that holding Gibb's Superbowls victories achieve during shortened seasons against him is ridiculous.

I can guarantee you this wouldn't been the line of argument if the Cowboys had won in those two years.

All 28 team where playing under the same rules those seasons.

I disagree.

The media in particular has never been afraid to take their shots against the Cowboys and this includes Landry who they claimed could never win the big one until he did and then there were rumors of Craig Morton being paid off to throw the game.

I think there would be plenty of people that would love nothing more to bring that up if Landry had won his 2 SB's during the strike shortened season.

Also, there was no salary cap during that era and nobody spent more than the Skins did during that timeframe. That's why they never drafted much. They didn't need to when they could simply pickup whatever player they wanted. And that was a big issue for Gibbs when he came back with the salary cap.





YR

 

[tyke1doe]

Someone needs to really explain the logic of holding the strike seasons against Gibbs. Everyone played under the same circumstances. Washington won 11 games in the strike shortened 1987 season, which was the most in the NFL regular season that year. Not sure how one can conclude the season would have been different if there had been no strike.

In 1982, there was only a 9 game regular season and the Skins went 8-1 and were the top seed in an expanded playoffs. So again, curious as to why the season would have definitely been different if they had played a full 16 game schedule. It's not like the Skins "sneaked" into the playoffs where a few more games might have caused them to miss the playoffs. They were the best team in the NFC that year.

Explanation?

The Commanders were better at putting together a strike season than many other clubs. They had one of the better replacement teams based on the foresight and insight of Bobby Beathard, who along with Jack Kent Cooke looking to field a team of replacements before the strike occurred. The Skins replacement team went undefeated, winning three games and beating the Cowboys, who had several team members cross the picket line.
The Commanders didn't have any players cross over, and that team unity - coupled with a replacement roster that didn't lose a game - factored into Washington taking the top seed, IMO.

So, in summary, because the strike season altered the game in that all the regulars for all teams didn't play the full season and some teams benefited from their replacements than others, I conclude that it benefited the Skins more than other clubs. Just because you had a talented regular squad doesn't necessarily mean you can overcome a break in the season. Winning is as much about luck as it is about opportunity, cohesion as a unit, etc.

Having said that, I still have Gibbs second to Landry. I think Gibbs was a GREAT coach. I just happen to see Landry as a legend. Landry is up there with Lombardi, Brown, Halas and Shula. I just don't see Gibbs as a legend like I see Landry.

 

[KJJ]

There were no replacement players in the 1982 strike. They just cancelled seven games. Replacement players were used in the 1987 strike.

Obviously I got the years mixed up the replacement players were used in 87 not 82 but it doesn't take away from the points I made. In 82 7 games were cancelled making it a 9 game season and the league added 16 playoff teams forcing everyone including the Raiders and Commanders who had the best records in their conference to play wildcard games. To win the SB in 82 you had to survive a 16 team playoff format having to win 4 straight games to become champion that season so I would like Eric_Boyer to explain how that increases the luck factor not the skill factor? In a normal non strike season there's an advantage to having the best record in your conference you're awarded a bye and only have to win 2 playoff games to reach the SB but Washington who had the best record in the conference in 82 was relegated along with the rest of the playoff teams to have to play wildcard games.