Jordan Bulls vs Curry Warriors

[darthseinfeld]

For a small forward who scored 20+ ppg and 1+ bpg, 2+ spg, and 7-8rpg. Yeah, I'm going to go with no Pippen was not overrated. Now I agree that having Jordan on the team helped him not get doubled, he still put up great numbers and there isn't a team in existence who wouldn't want Pippen on their team. He was a two way player and very good both ways.

Possibly the best D wing player of his era

 

[BAZ]

Also it's worth noting that Kerr played on those later bulls squads. Seeing what would go on between him And Phil would be fun.

 

[bounce]

I like the new age of basketball, and think there's usually a lot of romanticism about the olden days, but I think the Bulls work this Warriors team. Especially if the game is played with today's rules. Jordan would average 50. 20+ from the line alone.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Possibly the best D wing player of his era

I can't really think of anybody better off the top of my head.




YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I like the new age of basketball, and think there's usually a lot of romanticism about the olden days, but I think the Bulls work this Warriors team. Especially if the game is played with today's rules. Jordan would average 50. 20+ from the line alone.

The best days were in the 80's. Magic and Larry were these two incredible players that played basketball more like you should...dominate a game with only taking 10-12 attempts. They could put up a stat line like 7-11 shooting, 24 points, 13 rebounds and 8 assists and completely control the game. But, they were also just flat out fun to watch. They could make a dazzling pass, but it was also the right pass to make. The problem was that nobody could really touch the Lakers or Celtics for any given length of time (the Sixers and Rockets gave them some trouble) and the teams below that level were sometimes awful.

Jordan was a different type of player than Magic and Larry. He was this unstoppable force of nature that could rack up massive points (63 points vs. the Celtics in the Boston Garden). He didn't pass the ball like Magic and Larry did, but he didn't really have to. He was incredibly efficient as a scorer. Magic and Larry were extremely competitive, but had to use their teammates to win. Jordan eventually used his teammates then the 73-win Bulls had a great team, but they were more defensive oriented as Jordan and Pippen scored the points. Larry had Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. Magic had Kareem, Worthy and Byron Scott with Michael Cooper off the bench.

The NBA didn't start to become boring and tough to watch until Jordan was starting to retire. The Pistons were the first team that hacked guys to death. But, at least the Pistons had some legitimate great offensive talent. Then the Knicks with Pat Riley started to take over and games were ugly. And other teams started to follow suit. Then you had players leaving for the NBA out of high school and the talent level was just poor. It also didn't help that you constantly had ESPN trying to make Kobe as good, if not better than Jordan...basically force feeding it down the fans throats and anybody that watched Jordan play could tell you that Kobe wasn't in the same galaxy as Jordan. And he wasn't as good as Bird or Magic. And he wasn't really fun to watch either. You had that era where the stars were Shaq (legitimately an amazing player) and then horribly overrated Kobe and horribly overrated Iverson.

The league became a lax officiating league as well and it was one of the reasons why the US Olympic Team fell so badly during those years.

So no, I don't miss those days either. These days the game is better than those days. I still prefer the 80's and I think they could get back to that if they changed the rule to you can't play in the NBA until 2 years removed from high school. But, it's a pleasure to watch guys like Lebron, Curry, Leonard, etc.





YR

 

[DFWJC]

Pretty hard to project 20 years.
the argument that athletes are bigger stronger etc is true, but if you cross eras, to be fair, you'd have to project those same players from 20-30 years ago as also being bigger and stronger and faster.
Ex...if anyone doesn't think Jim Brown, with modern training and nutrition, wouldn't be even faster and at least a powerful or moreso, its nuts.
Projections just don't work well.

But this is how good that Bulls team was; you wouldn't even have to project them forward (to get apples and apples) as they'd still smoke these Warriors. Two different animals altogether.

 

[DFWJC]

I can't really think of anybody better off the top of my head.




YR

I agree. The Lakers also had am awfully good one for awhile. But Pippen was spiden man.

But the Bulls at one time had three of the top defenders in NBA history in their lineup. And thy had another that also made NBA defensive team a time or two. Insane.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

depends on the rules. Hand check would really hurt the Warriors guards especially a smaller Curry.

That would go both ways. If you are used to defending using a hand check, then it's going to be hard to defend without using it.

However, I would say that the Bulls would beat the Warriors and I don't really think it would be close. I don't know about sweep but they it would be 4-1 or 4-2. Having said this, the Bulls in their primes get beaten by either the Lakers or the Celtics of the 80s IMO and it would probably be by the same margin IMO.

 

[visionary]

Pippen says they sweep the Warriors in four games.

Funny the retroactive trash talk from one of the most overrated players of all time.

I personally disagree and I think the players across the board are better nowadays. Also think the officiating protectionist job the refs did on the Bulls allowed them to get the record whereas the Warriors have gotten no such treatment. I think these old players showing their jealousy by criticizing the Warriors is comedic and shows some serious insecurities.
I hope GS gets their 73.

Lol pippen is not overrated
Also those Bulls would not sweep GS but they would beat them

 

[slick325]

Pippen says they sweep the Warriors in four games.

Funny the retroactive trash talk from one of the most overrated players of all time.

I personally disagree and I think the players across the board are better nowadays. Also think the officiating protectionist job the refs did on the Bulls allowed them to get the record whereas the Warriors have gotten no such treatment. I think these old players showing their jealousy by criticizing the Warriors is comedic and shows some serious insecurities.
I hope GS gets their 73.

I was never a Bulls fan. I'm not a Scottie Pippen guy either. Very overrated player but still a Hall of Fame player. He wouldn't be in the top 50 all-time if they made that team in 2016.

That said, the Bulls would beat this Warriors team in 6 most likely. The Bulls have the better defenders and can matchup with the small ball style easily. Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc/Harper/Rodman would give the Warriors fits on both ends. Jordan wins his matchup hands down and among Jordan, Pippen and Harper they would make life difficult for Steph and Klay.

I do like this Warriors team a lot though. Great to watch.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That would go both ways. If you are used to defending using a hand check, then it's going to be hard to defend without using it.

However, I would say that the Bulls would beat the Warriors and I don't really think it would be close. I don't know about sweep but they it would be 4-1 or 4-2. Having said this, the Bulls in their primes get beaten by either the Lakers or the Celtics of the 80s IMO and it would probably be by the same margin IMO.

yea, I can see that, but I kinda disagree. Not sure which Lakers team you would use, but the 1980 and 1982 teams would have a huge advantage with Kareem in his some what prime. They however would have a Magic Johnson who was not as good and would struggle against Pippen checking him. They also would not have James Worthy, who was not apart of the team until the following season. They had Jamaal Wilkes, but imo they weren't that deep and it would really come down to who had the better series between MJ and KAJ.

The later LA Laker teams would have a much better Magic, Worthy and better role players imo, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar was no longer in his prime in 85, 87 and 88. In 85' he averaged still averaged 22 ppg, 7.9 rpg and 2.1 bpg, but by 87' those numbers dropped to 17.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg and 1.2 bpg. In 88' it further dropped to 14.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg and 1.2 bpg. Now he was clearly still better than Luc Longley and Bill Wenington, but for LA to dominate the bulls, let along beat him, you need Kareem to not only win that match up, but to dominate it and I don't know if he could at the age of 37, 39 or 40. Rodman would give Worthy fits, just like he did in Detroit when he was a much younger and inexperienced player. Pippen would give Magic fits, he'd still win the match-up, but likely wouldn't dominate Pippen like he didn't in 91 (and Pippen was a much better player in 96'). IMO, it's a toss up. I can see a Laker win in 7, 6 if the ball bounces their way and I can see a Bulls win in 7, 6 if the ball bounces their way. Only way LA dominates is if you are giving the KAJ from his early days with the later day Laker roster.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I still prefer the 80's and I think they could get back to that if they changed the rule to you can't play in the NBA until 2 years removed from high school.

While guys like Kobe, Lebron and KG clearly were ready for the NBA out of high school, I don't think the average person realizes how much damage high school players entering the league did. I would love it if the NBA forced players to go for 2 years, but I doubt it happens.

 

[ghst187]

Lol pippen is not overrated
Also those Bulls would not sweep GS but they would beat them

Didn't say the Warriors would win, but doubt a sweep. I don't remember the 80s Celtics or lakers denigrating the 72win Bulls during their run.....they had more class

 

[visionary]

Didn't say the Warriors would win, but doubt a sweep. I don't remember the 80s Celtics or lakers denigrating the 72win Bulls during their run.....they had more class

Don't get me wrong
The warriors are a great team, all time great
The fact that everyone is comparing them to those Bulls should tell us that

Some of it is also that we know what that Bulls team in totality and the warriors are young in their history

If the Warriors win 2 of next 3 or 3 of next 4 championships (which is certainly possible) then you might have some people change their opinion as well

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

I was never a Bulls fan. I'm not a Scottie Pippen guy either. Very overrated player but still a Hall of Fame player. He wouldn't be in the top 50 all-time if they made that team in 2016.

That said, the Bulls would beat this Warriors team in 6 most likely. The Bulls have the better defenders and can matchup with the small ball style easily. Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc/Harper/Rodman would give the Warriors fits on both ends. Jordan wins his matchup hands down and among Jordan, Pippen and Harper they would make life difficult for Steph and Klay.

I do like this Warriors team a lot though. Great to watch.

Nah, the word of NBA players who played against him, I'll take over yours.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Didn't say the Warriors would win, but doubt a sweep. I don't remember the 80s Celtics or lakers denigrating the 72win Bulls during their run.....they had more class

Because the Bulls team that went 72-10 got their 4th title in 1995-96. Warriors won't get any respect until they win more than 1 title.

 

[slick325]

Nah, the word of NBA players who played against him, I'll take over yours.

I'm cool with that...you aren't the first and won't be the last to disagree with me. All I can do is respect it and keep it moving.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

I'm cool with that...you aren't the first and won't be the last to disagree with me. All I can do is respect it and keep it moving.

Don't see how he is overrated. In what exactly?

 

[slick325]

Don't see how he is overrated. In what exactly?

I think that because those Bulls teams won 6 championships and the best player to ever lace them up played for them, all players on those teams now have an inflated history. Scottie Pippen especially.

He was an amazing defensive player. Great athlete and very skilled (can handle the ball pretty well, can pass and had good vision, etc.) Hall of Fame player without question. BUT...how great is a guy that averaged 16.1 pts/gm, 6.4 rebs/gm, and 5.2 assists/gm? Those are solid numbers. Even Hall of Fame numbers but to be revered as this all-time great guy? Not really. His numbers make him comparable to Klay Thompson (18.4pts/gm, 3.3 rebs/gm and 2.3 assists/gm) or Joe Dumars who is a Hall of Famer (16.1pts/gm, 2.2 rebs/gm and 4.5 assists/gm)....they were integral parts of Championship teams but no one would sing their praises the way Pippen's gets sung.

The same player who claimed to have a migraine in an important game against the Pistons in the playoffs and left Jordan hanging? The same guy who refused to go into a game because he didn't get the last shot and Kukoc got it? That Scottie Pippen is supposed to be all everything?

He isn't even top 5 at his position all-time and it isn't even close. He isn't better than LeBron James (27.3 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, .496 FG%); or Larry Bird (24.3 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .496 FG%) or Dr. J (24.2 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 4.2 APG, .506 FG%) or Kevin Durant (27.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 3.6 APG, .482 FG%) or Elgin Baylor (27.4 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, .431 FG%) or John Havlicek (20.8 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 4.8 APG, .439 FG%) or Rick Barry (23.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 5.1 APG, 2.0 SPG). He was a better defender than all of them and a perfect complement to Jordan but to me he is at best the 8th best small forward and I could argue that James Worthy (17.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 3.0 APG, .521 FG%) is just as good if not better. Sure one can argue that he is better than Havlicek, Barry or Worthy BUT there is an argument.

Pippen was a fantastic player and one I would take on my team everyday but never as THE GUY. Always a Robin never a Batman. Robin deserves major credit but not reverence. Is he even a better Robin than what Kobe was to Shaq? If you answer honestly, you would say no way. As I said, he may not even make the top 50 all-time team again. You figure someone has to be bumped to make room for: Kobe; LeBron, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, DWade, etc. Pippen may be one of those bumped.

Hall of Fame player but overhyped and overrated in my opinion.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

I think that because those Bulls teams won 6 championships and the best player to ever lace them up played for them, all players on those teams now have an inflated history. Scottie Pippen especially.

He was an amazing defensive player. Great athlete and very skilled (can handle the ball pretty well, can pass and had good vision, etc.) Hall of Fame player without question. BUT...how great is a guy that averaged 16.1 pts/gm, 6.4 rebs/gm, and 5.2 assists/gm? Those are solid numbers. Even Hall of Fame numbers but to be revered as this all-time great guy? Not really. His numbers make him comparable to Klay Thompson (18.4pts/gm, 3.3 rebs/gm and 2.3 assists/gm) or Joe Dumars who is a Hall of Famer (16.1pts/gm, 2.2 rebs/gm and 4.5 assists/gm)....they were integral parts of Championship teams but no one would sing their praises the way Pippen's gets sung.

The same player who claimed to have a migraine in an important game against the Pistons in the playoffs and left Jordan hanging? The same guy who refused to go into a game because he didn't get the last shot and Kukoc got it? That Scottie Pippen is supposed to be all everything?

He isn't even top 5 at his position all-time and it isn't even close. He isn't better than LeBron James (27.3 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, .496 FG%); or Larry Bird (24.3 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .496 FG%) or Dr. J (24.2 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 4.2 APG, .506 FG%) or Kevin Durant (27.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 3.6 APG, .482 FG%) or Elgin Baylor (27.4 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, .431 FG%) or John Havlicek (20.8 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 4.8 APG, .439 FG%) or Rick Barry (23.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 5.1 APG, 2.0 SPG). He was a better defender than all of them and a perfect complement to Jordan but to me he is at best the 8th best small forward and I could argue that James Worthy (17.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 3.0 APG, .521 FG%) is just as good if not better. Sure one can argue that he is better than Havlicek, Barry or Worthy BUT there is an argument.

Pippen was a fantastic player and one I would take on my team everyday but never as THE GUY. Always a Robin never a Batman. Robin deserves major credit but not reverence. Is he even a better Robin than what Kobe was to Shaq? If you answer honestly, you would say no way. As I said, he may not even make the top 50 all-time team again. You figure someone has to be bumped to make room for: Kobe; LeBron, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, DWade, etc. Pippen may be one of those bumped.

Hall of Fame player but overhyped and overrated in my opinion.

Any player would get overshadowed playing with Jordan. I guess we could say the same about James Worthy being overrated, if it wasn't for Magic delivering those on target passes. Matter of opinion I guess.