Just for fun hypothetical in regards to re-signing Dez

[FuzzyLumpkins]

3/13/2012: Signed an eight-year, $150.5 million contract. The deal contains $60 million guaranteed.

150.5 / 8 = 18.8125 (average)

It's a hypothetical question. I'm not comparing any DL on the Cowboys to Suh. It's just and example of how overpaying one player can affect a team. It's also an example of why having the #1 ranked player at a position is not always that much better than having one that just ranking in the top 10.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/calvin-johnson/

Omission is still deception and while most of the time you are straightforward when you want something you go full sophist mode.

You are waving your hands at the AAV of a backloaded deal. I know you know the folly in looking at the accounting holistically like you are because of our discussions with the cap hell types that predict the sky is falling. Yet here you are using the same reasoning. You don't even acknowledge my actual argument you just just try the bait and switch routine by waving your hands at minutiae of holistic analyis.

His salaries the next two years are less than $15m and because of the length of the deal they can restructure easily. In fact it looks like the structure of Ware's 2009 extension which makes him a likely cut in 3 years when his salaries balloon to upwards of $20m when you include his roster bonuses and the like.

I agree we should not structure deals like the Lions structured CJ but we both know that the ten year deal they are trying to get him to sign is nothing of that nature so why you are bringing it up as an example of why we shouldn't sign Dez is just gratuitous nonsense against your pet anti-cat.

 

[kevm3]

We need to decide what kind of team we're going to become first. Are we an offense based team or are we going to be a defense based team? Dez isn't putting up a ton of stats this year, but we don't need him to. We're essentially complaining about him even though he makes it much easier to throw to Terrance Williams and he makes it much easier to score in the red zone. You don't pay Dez so much that it cripples the team, but if you're going to have an offense based team, then you keep Dez.

 

[Risen Star]

If Nelson ' s contract was up after this season he wouldn't be cheap either so I don't really see your point

No, but it was fun to think about.

 

[black label]

Suh and Nelson hands down.

Also, I'd rather (hypothetically) have a Victor Cruz and a Eric Decker type duo rather than one Dez Bryant.

A lot more could be had with the $$ that Dez wants.

Totally agree with this

 

[xwalker]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/calvin-johnson/

Omission is still deception and while most of the time you are straightforward when you want something you go full sophist mode.

You are waving your hands at the AAV of a backloaded deal. I know you know the folly in looking at the accounting holistically like you are because of our discussions with the cap hell types that predict the sky is falling. Yet here you are using the same reasoning. You don't even acknowledge my actual argument you just just try the bait and switch routine by waving your hands at minutiae of holistic analyis.

His salaries the next two years are less than $15m and because of the length of the deal they can restructure easily. In fact it looks like the structure of Ware's 2009 extension which makes him a likely cut in 3 years when his salaries balloon to upwards of $20m when you include his roster bonuses and the like.

I agree we should not structure deals like the Lions structured CJ but we both know that the ten year deal they are trying to get him to sign is nothing of that nature so why you are bringing it up as an example of why we shouldn't sign Dez is just gratuitous nonsense against your pet anti-cat.

No, I really don't know how you're adding it up.

If I go by Spotrac's numbers it's 7 years at $113,450,000 which averages out to $16,207,142 per season.

If I subtract the final 2 years and make it a 5 year deal, then it averages out to $15,640,000 per season.

I only see roster bonuses in the earlier years. I don't see anything that goes away in the later years other than base salary if he is cut.

Regardless of how much he is restructured, you have to include the restructure bonus money in the overall amount paid out. If he is cut after 5 years, then the total amount paid out was
$78,200,00. Dividing that by the number of years that he was on the team (5) gets you the 15,640,000 number. Yes, you could push some of that out as dead money with at June 1st cut, but including years that he is not on the team is not really averaging out his true average cost per year of service.

 

[AbeBeta]

Yes, the Franchise Tag makes the Dez contract a non-issue for 2015. He'll be here one way or the other.

In regards to trading him, other teams will not give up significant draft picks for a guy that also requires a huge contract. With the current CBA, teams just aren't going to give up both huge cap space AND draft picks for the same player.

Really? I've seen that happen at least twice.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The problem here that Dez wants the kind of contract that is going to make headline news. Thats what he means when he says that he wants to be respected. He's been offered some nice contracts already that would make him one of the top 5 paid guys in the league. But, he wants people to ooooh and ahhh at this contract and talk about it on ESPN.

So, leave the fact he might be your favorite player out of the equation and consider what is in the best interest of the team.

 

[xwalker]

Really? I've seen that happen at least twice.

I don't doubt that it might have happened on rare occasions. Jerry traded for Roy Williams AND gave him a new big contract; however, that was under the old CBA where draft picks were much more expensive to sign.

If it has happened under the new CBA I would be curious to know about it.

 

[casmith07]

dont think Dallas overpays. IMO i think they want to go with whats working now. The run. I dont think they will low ball DEz but it would suprise me if he gets over 13mil a yr. Alot of guaranteed money in the base salry could save Dallas capwise. Restructures are theyre best friend.

They will overpay Murray a tad before they grossly overpay Dez Bryant is my guess.

But I think everyone is going to get what they want. If not, with Stephen running the show with Garrett, maybe Dez hits free agency and we let someone else pay him $18M AAV. We would just be right back in the market for a big game WR.

You also have to figure that Dez's salary is going to cannibalize Witten's somewhat -- potentially pay Dez what you would pay a WR + a TE the caliber of Witten, so it evens out at the end of the day. Kind of a weird way to think of it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

The problem here that Dez wants the kind of contract that is going to make headline news. Thats what he means when he says that he wants to be respected. He's been offered some nice contracts already that would make him one of the top 5 paid guys in the league. But, he wants people to ooooh and ahhh at this contract and talk about it on ESPN.

So, leave the fact he might be your favorite player out of the equation and consider what is in the best interest of the team.

That's what I have been saying. Nothing against Dez, we are trying to build a total team for a change. Why let one WR handicap that.

 

[xwalker]

The problem here that Dez wants the kind of contract that is going to make headline news. Thats what he means when he says that he wants to be respected. He's been offered some nice contracts already that would make him one of the top 5 paid guys in the league. But, he wants people to ooooh and ahhh at this contract and talk about it on ESPN.

So, leave the fact he might be your favorite player out of the equation and consider what is in the best interest of the team.

Just give him a 10 year, 500M contract with none of it guaranteed. Make it such that it's really a 5 year 50M contract. That will let him get all the press for having the biggest contract in history without actually paying him more than they want to pay.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Just give him a 10 year, 500M contract with none of it guaranteed. Make it such that it's really a 5 year 50M contract. That will let him get all the press for having the biggest contract in history without actually paying him more than they want to pay.

OR, a 10 year , 1 Billion dollar contract with the final year at 900 million. lol

 

[xwalker]

OR, a 10 year , 1 Billion dollar contract with the final year at 900 million. lol

Yes, that's the idea.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

If you had the choice, which would you choose?

a. Having Jordy Nelson and Suh on your team.

b. Having Megatron on your team.

The Lions are likely to lose Suh in free agency, in part because Megatron's cap hits are:
$20.558 million in 2015 and $24.088 million in 2016

If the Lions had Jordy Nelson and his 9.7M average salary, they could probably afford to keep Suh.

Suh's cap hit is 22M.

So no it's not a choice for the Lions as to a Jordy type and Suh vs. Megatron.

The lions unfortunately still have a lot of players from the old CBA taking up a disproportionate amount of cap space most notably Stafford, Suh and Megatron.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He just signed a new contract in July that averages about 9.7M per season.

That's because he's 29.

That's also because he isn't Dez Bryant.

In 8 seasons he's only about to have his 3rd 1,000 yard season.

In 8 years he has less TDs in than Dez has in 5.

Give me a Dez Bryant for 3M more per year every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

People are underestimating the gap between Calvin Johnson and Jordy Nelson, or any other WR for that matter, but especially Jordy.

 

[xwalker]

Suh's cap hit is 22M.

So no it's not a choice for the Lions as to a Jordy type and Suh vs. Megatron.

The lions unfortunately still have a lot of players from the old CBA taking up a disproportionate amount of cap space most notably Stafford, Suh and Megatron.

That is Suh's cap hit this season. His contract voids after the season making him a Free Agent.

 

[xwalker]

People are underestimating the gap between Calvin Johnson and Jordy Nelson, or any other WR for that matter, but especially Jordy.

I watch most GB games because my GF is a Packers fan. Nelson is a really good player. He is clutch and makes some terrific catches. He had one yesterday where he did a remakeable job of getting his feet inbounds.

He is more athletic than people think. IIRC, he returned kicks in earlier years.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I watch most GB games because my GF is a Packers fan. Nelson is a really good player. He is clutch and makes some terrific catches. He had one yesterday where he did a remakeable job of getting his feet inbounds.

He is more athletic than people think. IIRC, he returned kicks in earlier years.

He's a good player, but Megatron is perhaps the most athletically gifted WR to ever grace the field. That's like comparing an above average WR to Moss in his prime. There's no comparison. It says more about Megatron than it says about Jordy.

 

[xwalker]

He's a good player, but Megatron is perhaps the most athletically gifted WR to ever grace the field. That's like comparing an above average WR to Moss in his prime. There's no comparison. It says more about Megatron than it says about Jordy.

Well the thread was about Suh + Nelson vs Megatron. Nobody is comparing Nelson to Megztron straight up.

It's fun to talk about the dominant ability of a player like Megatron, but the real goal is team wins.

I don't care if Barry Sanders was more exciting than Emmitt. One has 3 SB wins the other does not.