Just for fun hypothetical in regards to re-signing Dez

[Toruk_Makto]

That is Suh's cap hit this season. His contract voids after the season making him a Free Agent.

I know that.

And that's the reason he likely is available. But your at false equivalents when you're saying Megatron or Jordy and Suh. Jordy and Suh will be much more expensive than Megatron.

So you see your entire argument falls apart.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Well the thread was about Suh + Nelson vs Megatron. Nobody is comparing Nelson to Megztron straight up.

It's fun to talk about the dominant ability of a player like Megatron, but the real goal is team wins.

I don't care if Barry Sanders was more exciting than Emmitt. One has 3 SB wins the other does not.

Your comparison here with Barry Sanders and Emmitt doesn't make sense.

What exactly are you trying to prove?

 

[xwalker]

Your comparison here with Barry Sanders and Emmitt doesn't make sense.

What exactly are you trying to prove?

I'm not trying to prove anything, just pointing out the fans/media love to slobber about how great an individual player is relative to other players regardless of how much their team didn't win.

When the Seahawks won the Super Bowl did Lions fans jump on twitter to taunt them about not having Megatron on their team?

Seahawks fan in Feb. 2014: We just won the Super Bowl.

Lions fan: Who cares about the Seahawks, we've got the greatest WR in the league.

 

[xwalker]

I know that.

And that's the reason he likely is available. But your at false equivalents when you're saying Megatron or Jordy and Suh. Jordy and Suh will be much more expensive than Megatron.

So you see your entire argument falls apart.

It's not a question of Jordy + Suh being more than Megatron, it's about Jordy + Suh being less than Suh + Megatron. It might be that the Lions could afford Suh/Nelson but can't afford Suh/Megatron.

 

[blindzebra]

If you look at our cap we have almost 27 million of our current cap tied up in dead money, so paying a young, productive team leader is not an issue.

 

[xwalker]

If you look at our cap we have almost 27 million of our current cap tied up in dead money, so paying a young, productive team leader is not an issue.

If they had been able to negotiate a slightly better deal back when Ware signed his contract, then he might still be here.

It seems that the Cowboys are putting more effort into negotiating contracts these days instead of just handing them out like Halloween candy.

I'm not certain how you're relating this to dead-money.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, I really don't know how you're adding it up.

If I go by Spotrac's numbers it's 7 years at $113,450,000 which averages out to $16,207,142 per season.

If I subtract the final 2 years and make it a 5 year deal, then it averages out to $15,640,000 per season.

I only see roster bonuses in the earlier years. I don't see anything that goes away in the later years other than base salary if he is cut.

Regardless of how much he is restructured, you have to include the restructure bonus money in the overall amount paid out. If he is cut after 5 years, then the total amount paid out was
$78,200,00. Dividing that by the number of years that he was on the team (5) gets you the 15,640,000 number. Yes, you could push some of that out as dead money with at June 1st cut, but including years that he is not on the team is not really averaging out his true average cost per year of service.

Regardless, you never bring up backloading a deal as opposed to how we currently structure them. Wave your hands at how you cannot figure out their accounting some more.

 

[blindzebra]

If they had been able to negotiate a slightly better deal back when Ware signed his contract, then he might still be here.

It seems that the Cowboys are putting more effort into negotiating contracts these days instead of just handing them out like Halloween candy.

I'm not certain how you're relating this to dead-money.

I am saying we have eliminated almost all of the cap killing contracts and the ones we have been giving lately have been cap friendly with built in restructures and higher upfront cap hits and less dead money at the end.

There is no reason to not sign Dez to a deal similar to Tyron's deal.

 

[xwalker]

I am saying we have eliminated almost all of the cap killing contracts and the ones we have been giving lately have been cap friendly with built in restructures and higher upfront cap hits and less dead money at the end.

There is no reason to not sign Dez to a deal similar to Tyron's deal.

Yes, I've had the thought that they should give him the exact same deal as Tyron; although, I think he wants more. Tyron's deal averages 10.6M and it's effectively less than that because current money is more valuable than money at the end of a 10 year deal.

I think Dez wants 14M to 16M per year.

 

[xwalker]

Regardless, you never bring up backloading a deal as opposed to how we currently structure them. Wave your hands at how you cannot figure out their accounting some more.

I'm not sure why you get so angry.

I like that fact that people try to find the mistakes in any concept that I post. There are advantages to group-thinking.

If I'm missing something in regards to Megatron's contract, you're not making it clear to me.

Doesn't removing the later years from the equation remove backloading?

 

[blindzebra]

Yes, I've had the thought that they should give him the exact same deal as Tyron; although, I think he wants more. Tyron's deal averages 10.6M and it's effectively less than that because current money is more valuable than money at the end of a 10 year deal.

I think Dez wants 14M to 16M per year.

From what I can tell there are 3 contracts hurting our side of the negotiations Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Mike Wallace. Every other elite WR on his second contract is 10 mil or less. I can see 13 mil getting it done.

 

[Craig]

I'd rather have JJ Watt and Kelvin Benjamin.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not sure why you get so angry.

I like that fact that people try to find the mistakes in any concept that I post. There are advantages to group-thinking.

If I'm missing something in regards to Megatron's contract, you're not making it clear to me.

Doesn't removing the later years from the equation remove backloading?

Oh so now you play the martyr card. It's annoying when you are coy and you dissemble. And you can try to paint me with everyone who criticizes you but outside of you making up assignments to absolve Leary from having to block anyone on sacks, I don't do that.

So we have moved on from your $24m assertion earlier when you were determined to compare apples to oranges.

Megatron is going to be making upwards of $5m more than Dez aav and you have no comparable Suh all pro we are going to have to let go so your crusade to get rid of Dez will have to look for greener pastures.

Perhaps try booting Free some more?

 

[perrykemp]

From what I can tell there are 3 contracts hurting our side of the negotiations Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Mike Wallace. Every other elite WR on his second contract is 10 mil or less. I can see 13 mil getting it done.

The Dolphins dramatically overpaid for Wallace and I suspect Wallace's contract plays a part in the delta between what Dez and his agent think he is worth and what the Cowboys front-office thinks he is worth.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It's not a question of Jordy + Suh being more than Megatron, it's about Jordy + Suh being less than Suh + Megatron. It might be that the Lions could afford Suh/Nelson but can't afford Suh/Megatron.

And how exactly do you get Suh & Megatron on the same team? You draft them. Then you have to pay to keep them. The Lions never had a chance at Jordy. And the only way you get a guy like that is to draft or overpay him in free agency (if a guy is ever even made available). This isn't fanduel where you can just plug in guys with certain cap charges.

Also you keep bringing up the Seahawks as an example...a flawed one because of Wilson's rookie deal....but you seem to forget how much they paid to bring in a Percy.

And since we're on the subject...you win a superbowl by having the best collection of talent. You acquire said talent in the most cost effective manner possible. Lets say we can't pay Dez and he takes a monster contract somewhere else. What do you do with all that money? Go out into free agency and overpay for other guys you don't know? Because for the best players you always overpay in free agency.

And one final point...do you see what happens to the Lions offense when Megatron is not on the field? It goes into a dark place and dies. So maybe the Lions haven't won a superbowl with Megatron. But that's hardly his fault. He has been worth every single penny he's been paid to that side of the ball.

 

[JoeKing]

 

[xwalker]

And how exactly do you get Suh & Megatron on the same team? You draft them. Then you have to pay to keep them. The Lions never had a chance at Jordy. And the only way you get a guy like that is to draft or overpay him in free agency (if a guy is ever even made available). This isn't fanduel where you can just plug in guys with certain cap charges.

Also you keep bringing up the Seahawks as an example...a flawed one because of Wilson's rookie deal....but you seem to forget how much they paid to bring in a Percy.

And since we're on the subject...you win a superbowl by having the best collection of talent. You acquire said talent in the most cost effective manner possible. Lets say we can't pay Dez and he takes a monster contract somewhere else. What do you do with all that money? Go out into free agency and overpay for other guys you don't know? Because for the best players you always overpay in free agency.

And one final point...do you see what happens to the Lions offense when Megatron is not on the field? It goes into a dark place and dies. So maybe the Lions haven't won a superbowl with Megatron. But that's hardly his fault. He has been worth every single penny he's been paid to that side of the ball.

Again, it's a hypothetical question, as in what if the Lions had drafted Nelson and he was currenly on their team instead of Megatron. The question is loosely correlated to Dez and his contract but it's not just about him.

You're not going to understand my point if your goal is to not understand it.

I don't care abiut fault or no fault with Megaton. I'm just considering which situation would be better in terms of winning games vs just having a great layer.

I'm also looking at the significance of great players vs very good players. People love to heap accolades on great players, but winning is the bottom line, not rankings on a list of players.

I didn't make a reference to Seattle's cap situation so Wilson is not really relevant.

I could have asked a more generic question such as "Would you prefer to win a Super Bowl with no Hall of Famers or no SBs with multiple HOFs?" The way some people slobber over "great" players it sometimes seems that they prefer the great players over SB wns. I would trade having had Larry Allen on the Cowboys team in the nineties for an extra SB win if I had that choice.

 

[xwalker]

Oh so now you play the martyr card. It's annoying when you are coy and you dissemble. And you can try to paint me with everyone who criticizes you but outside of you making up assignments to absolve Leary from having to block anyone on sacks, I don't do that.

So we have moved on from your $24m assertion earlier when you were determined to compare apples to oranges.

Megatron is going to be making upwards of $5m more than Dez aav and you have no comparable Suh all pro we are going to have to let go so your crusa to get rid of Dez will have to look for greener pastures.

Perhaps try booting Free some more?

This seems like you're name calling to cover up for not being able to make a clear point.

I'm not crusading to let Dez go. I prefer that he stays. I think the franchise tag makes it impossible that he is gone the next 2 years, so I'm not worried about it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Again, it's a hypothetical question, as in what if the Lions had drafted Nelson and he was currenly on their team instead of Megatron. The question is loosely correlated to Dez and his contract but it's not just about him.

You're not going to understand my point if your goal is to not understand it.

I don't care abiut fault or no fault with Megaton. I'm just considering which situation would be better in terms of winning games vs just having a great layer.

I'm also looking at the significance of great players vs very good players. People love to heap accolades on great players, but winning is the bottom line, not rankings on a list of players.

I didn't make a reference to Seattle's cap situation so Wilson is not really relevant.

I could have asked a more generic question such as "Would you prefer to win a Super Bowl with no Hall of Famers or no SBs with multiple HOFs?" The way some people slobber over "great" players it sometimes seems that they prefer the great players over SB wns. I would trade having had Larry Allen on the Cowboys team in the nineties for an extra SB win if I had that choice.

That's just nonsense. Everyone would take a no stars Super Bowl win verses the alternative.

But I mean it's kind of a silly question in and of itself...the more hall of famers you have the better your likelihood of winning it all.

Dez helps this team win games. And he has from the moment he put on the star.

 

[Ratmatt]

Suh, and Nelson