Just say "NO" to converting a DE to OLB...

[MichaelWinicki]

I've been looking at the list of defensive ends available for the draft that could be converted to a 3-4 backer...

Manny Lawson
Kamerion Wimbley
Mark Anderson
Darryl Tapp
Jeremy Mincey

And quite truthfully I don't see one of them that would make a good "strongside" OLB in the 3-4.

A see a lot of "good pass rusher" or "has pass rush potential" or "Shows good moves rushing the passer".

But I also see a lot of "Lacks anchor strength" or "Must get stronger" or "Needs to hold up better at the point of attack".

What I don't see is with any of them "Shows good coverage ability" or "Has the abililty to fight through blocks".

I think given the needs of what a strong-side OLB is suppose to do in the 3-4 I don't see how any of these pass-rush specialists are going to do what we need them to do--- even though many here seem to be in love with sacks and damn any other responsibilities.

Given that I think all these defensive ends are a poor fit for our defense I think we're looking at someone who has played OLB in college.

Hawk obviously won't be there at #18.
Bobby Carpenter is a great fit but not necessarily at #18.
Chad Greenway would be a great fit but I doubt he'll be there at #18.
Thomas Howard of UTEP is an intriguing prospect even though he may be better suited to the weakside.

I dunno. I'm not seeing a lot of OLB that have the potential to come on in 2006 and contribute (a lot) on the strong side.

I'm thinking that if we don't select an OLB in the first or second round the SOLB spot is Al Singletons this year. Is that terrible? No not necessarily. I think the defense was better with him out there. And maybe we do have too many holes to fill right now to fill them all out of this one draft.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people said the same things about DeMarcus Ware last year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

sorry Winicki, but Dallas is looking at exactly the type of OLB you want us to say no too

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people said the same things about DeMarcus Ware last year.

Nope.

He was always considered a "Weak" OLB option in the 3-4... not on the strong-side which has totally different responsibilities.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

sorry Winicki, but Dallas is looking at exactly the type of OLB you want us to say no too

They could.

But I'm thinking someone like Bobby Carpenter is more likely at this point.

 

[cleverusername]

I've been looking at the list of defensive ends available for the draft that could be converted to a 3-4 backer...

Manny Lawson
Kamerion Wimbley
Mark Anderson
Darryl Tapp
Jeremy Mincey

And quite truthfully I don't see one of them that would make a good "strongside" OLB in the 3-4.

A see a lot of "good pass rusher" or "has pass rush potential" or "Shows good moves rushing the passer".

But I also see a lot of "Lacks anchor strength" or "Must get stronger" or "Needs to hold up better at the point of attack".

What I don't see is with any of them "Shows good coverage ability" or "Has the abililty to fight through blocks".

I think given the needs of what a strong-side OLB is suppose to do in the 3-4 I don't see how any of these pass-rush specialists are going to do what we need them to do--- even though many here seem to be in love with sacks and damn any other responsibilities.

Given that I think all these defensive ends are a poor fit for our defense I think we're looking at someone who has played OLB in college.

Hawk obviously won't be there at #18.
Bobby Carpenter is a great fit but not necessarily at #18.
Chad Greenway would be a great fit but I doubt he'll be there at #18.
Thomas Howard of UTEP is an intriguing prospect even though he may be better suited to the weakside.

I dunno. I'm not seeing a lot of OLB that have the potential to come on in 2006 and contribute (a lot) on the strong side.

I'm thinking that if we don't select an OLB in the first or second round the SOLB spot is Al Singletons this year. Is that terrible? No not necessarily. I think the defense was better with him out there. And maybe we do have too many holes to fill right now to fill them all out of this one draft.

You have a valid point, and the same thing has crossed my mind. I think Carpenter might be the best fit but personally I like Lawson/Wimbley. What do yall think are the chances, if one of these guys is available (Law/Wimb) That we move Ware to the SOLB? Given, he just learned a new position last year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

They could.

But I'm thinking someone like Bobby Carpenter is more likely at this point.

they are, and Carpenter may be more likely, but converted DEs are still very intriguing to Dallas

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You have a valid point, and the same thing has crossed my mind. I think Carpenter might be the best fit but personally I like Lawson/Wimbley. What do yall think are the chances, if one of these guys is available (Law/Wimb) That we move Ware to the SOLB? Given, he just learned a new position last year.

I honestly can't see them switching Ware to the strong-side.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

they are, and Carpenter may be more likely, but converted DEs are still very intriguing to Dallas

If we didn't have Ware I would totally agree with you.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The reason I like Carpenter is that I think he is a finished product, a guy that knows the position and has been very good at it.

The reason I like Lawson is he is somewhat familiar with it and I think he has tremendous upside.

I honestly would be happy with either.

The reason most of these DEs are said to be weak at the point of attack is because they are undersized for their positions and would be a better fit in the pros at 34 LBs.

So it is kind of hard to bash them for being weak at the point of attack while they were playing a position where they were undersized compared to 34 LB in the pros.

Just something to think about.

The problem becomes do you want a little bit of growing pains learning a new position or do you want a guy that already knows the position.

I however think that if the guy has the ability to transition then there is nothing wrong due to the difference of being a 43 DE in college vs a 34 LB in the pros.

 

[AdamJT13]

I honestly can't see them switching Ware to the strong-side.

Ware played more of a right outside linebacker last season than a strongside linebacker, since he rarely switched to the left side, regardless of which side was strong or weak. And the few times he did go to the left side, it always seemed to be to rush the passer. If we stick to that system, there wouldn't be anything wrong with having Ware-type players on both sides.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The reason I like Carpenter is that I think he is a finished product, a guy that knows the position and has been very good at it.

The reason I like Lawson is he is somewhat familiar with it and I think he has tremendous upside.

I honestly would be happy with either.

The reason most of these DEs are said to be weak at the point of attack is because they are undersized for their positions and would be a better fit in the pros at 34 LBs.

So it is kind of hard to bash them for being weak at the point of attack while they were playing a position where they were undersized compared to 34 LB in the pros.

Just something to think about.

The problem becomes do you want a little bit of growing pains learning a new position or do you want a guy that already knows the position.

I however think that if the guy has the ability to transition then there is nothing wrong due to the difference of being a 43 DE in college vs a 34 LB in the pros.

Point take Brain...

But that little responsibility called "coverage" just scares the living bejesus out of me.

I want to see a guy at SOLB that has experience in coverage.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Nope.

He was always considered a "Weak" OLB option in the 3-4... not on the strong-side which has totally different responsibilities.

I would bet that Ware is going to end up like Joey Porter on Pittsburgh and once he's finished bulking up and the coaches feel he knows the defense, he'll be moved around so much, the strong and weak side designation will get blurred.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Point take Brain...

But that little responsibility called "coverage" just scares the living bejesus out of me.

I want to see a guy at SOLB that has experience in coverage.

How about Lawson covering a pretty good TE at Virginia when their two teams played.

There is a difference in what some draft reports say, and what really happens.

You can read a bunch of reports on the same types of positions and you will always see the same few things listed as negatives.

If they have to list a positive and a negative, they will right anything even if it is minor.

 

[big dog cowboy]

But I'm thinking someone like Bobby Carpenter is more likely at this point.

 

[Chuck 54]

I think the negatives on these guys holding up at the point of attack or fighting through blocks is looking at them as undersized DEs...I'm sure a 230 lb OLB would also have problems taking on OLmen and fighting through blocks.

I think a guy with speed like Lawson could hold up pretty well in coverage of RBs.

 

[Hostile]

Bobby Carpenter is a great fit but not necessarily at #18.

This is what I want to focus on for a minute of your time Mike. I too believe this guy is the perfect fit @ SOLB and is the player we should take over any other. If we can't trade down to still try and take him, we should go ahead and take him at 18 and not worry about if it is "too early."

Lots of people that Indy took Dwight Freeney too early with the 11th overall pick in 2002. No one thinks that now though do they?

 

[junk]

This is what I want to focus on for a minute of your time Mike. I too believe this guy is the perfect fit @ SOLB and is the player we should take over any other. If we can't trade down to still try and take him, we should go ahead and take him at 18 and not worry about if it is "too early."

Lots of people that Indy took Dwight Freeney too early with the 11th overall pick in 2002. No one thinks that now though do they?

Exactly. I have been a Carpenter fan for awhile, but the thing I realized today is that if he is the guy that fits what Dallas wants to do best then take him at 18 and don't worry if he is "25" on some board.

Carpenter is rising and I am pretty sure he goes in 1 right now. If Dallas passes, I'd be surprised if he gets past NE, either NY team or Pitt.

For those that think Greenway is a fit.....no. I think he is a Derrick Brooks Cover 2 weakside backer all the way. If you want a guy that "anchors" and is strong at the point of attack, look away from Greenway.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This is what I want to focus on for a minute of your time Mike. I too believe this guy is the perfect fit @ SOLB and is the player we should take over any other. If we can't trade down to still try and take him, we should go ahead and take him at 18 and not worry about if it is "too early."

Lots of people that Indy took Dwight Freeney too early with the 11th overall pick in 2002. No one thinks that now though do they?

You're a smart arse.

I agree if push came to shove I would take Carpenter at #18 and be very happy with the pick. I think his addition would give us potentially a very good and very young lineback corp with some decent depth behind with Singleton, Burnett, Fowler, Thornton and the kid we signed from Tennessee.

 

[Clove]

The only problem I have with Carpenter (I do like Carpenter by the way) is that his stats were not very good for a traditional OLB. I don't understand how he came down with only 49 tackles playing in a 4-3 (I think) and his counterpart had nearly 3 times the tackles.
I just can't get past that.