Justice League “Come Together”

[DallasEast]

Not off to a very good start.

http://mashable.com/2017/11/19/just...ack-snyder-warner-bros-what-now/#W1ipfgwY0mq3

It spent mountains of cash and political capital to pivot away from Snyder's doleful vision that critics hated but at least was working with a loyal (and, ahem, vocal) swath of DC fans.

That sums up my view perfectly. The movie is conflicted because some of the audience (paid critic or otherwise) disagreed with Snyder’s take and Whedon’s work was corrupted from the start by Warner Bros’s overreaching directives.

It is unfortunate Whedon, who has demonstrated clear print/concept-to-visual presentation in this area since his Buffy The Vampire Slayer days, was influenced by studio executives to ‘fix’ it’ to reduce anticipated over criticism. They should have had the foresight in not tabbing Snyder immediately for Man Of Steel sequels and hired someone else (Whedon or another director) IF they had any inkling of panicking this badly to appease elements outside the core audience.

However, what is done is done. Shoot. Even Henry Cavill looked and sounded a bit discombobulated at times and his delivery had less to do with his character’s return to the living and more to do with executing 180 degree reversals in the script. Oh well.

 

[Stash]

Total as of Monday night // $300 million worldwide.

Not very good at all compared to other films in the genre. Even Batman v Superman performed better.

 

[Stash]

That sums up my view perfectly. The movie is conflicted because some of the audience (paid critic or otherwise) disagreed with Snyder’s take and Whedon’s work was corrupted from the start by Warner Bros’s overreaching directives.

It is unfortunate Whedon, who has demonstrated clear print/concept-to-visual presentation in this area since his Buffy The Vampire Slayer days, was influenced by studio executives to ‘fix’ it’ to reduce anticipated over criticism. They should have had the foresight in not tabbing Snyder immediately for Man Of Steel sequels and hired someone else (Whedon or another director) IF they had any inkling of panicking this badly to appease elements outside the core audience.

However, what is done is done. Shoot. Even Henry Cavill looked and sounded a bit discombobulated at times and his delivery had less to do with his character’s return to the living and more to do with executing 180 degree reversals in the script. Oh well.

Warner Bros needs to clean house of whatever executives have been involved in their D.C. Cinematic Universe.

And then reassess the entire future and where they want to go with their films.

I've read that the next three films are Aquaman, Shazam, Cyborg, and Flash? With no Batman or Superman in sight? Seriously?

 

[Aikmaniac]

Seeing this tonight, but am leaving my expectations at the door. The trailers and tv spots just didn't excite me for this one at all. That's sad considering I've always been a fan of Supes and Bats.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Not very good at all compared to other films in the genre. Even Batman v Superman performed better.

Hmmmmm?

Ahead of a lot of big movies.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/worldwideopenings.htm

 

[Stash]

Seeing this tonight, but am leaving my expectations at the door. The trailers and tv spots just didn't excite me for this one at all. That's sad considering I've always been a fan of Supes and Bats.

Give us your review after you do.

 

[Stash]

Hmmmmm?

Ahead of a lot of big movies.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/worldwideopenings.htm

Fine, you go ahead and make excuses.

Show me where those other movies ever cost near what this thing did.

This is not a success, no matter how people want to try to "spin" it.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Fine, you go ahead and make excuses.

Show me where those other movies ever cost near what this thing did.

This is not a success, no matter how people want to try to "spin" it.

Excuses? Are you ok? Re-read it. AGAIN!

If it his $600, $700, $800... still no good, right?

 

[DallasEast]

I've read that the next three films are Aquaman, Shazam, Cyborg, and Flash? With no Batman or Superman in sight? Seriously?

It is the studio's own fault. They quirked proper continuity, which was already blueprinted by Marvel/Disney.

• Batman was already reestablished with The Dark Knight trilogy.
• Superman was also reestablished post-Superman Returns in Man of Steel.

Two of DC's three heavy hitters were done. The next movies should have been

• Wonder Woman
• Aquaman
• Flash

--in that order and in rapid procession/theatrical release. DC's premier fighting team would almost be set at this stage. The premise for the current movie is sound. Its baseline is Apokolips. So

• Have the five established/reestablished heroes unite to confront the Apokolips lackey, Steffenwolf.
• Allow Justice League to have ONE subplot, the establishment of Cyborg, whose origin centers upon Apokolips technology.

Bodda boom bodda bing. Group superhero movie that can focus primarily on a big bad for 120 minutes without having huge chucks of mini-origins subtract from it--along with the forced punch lines to 'soften' the movie so that it can mesh better.

One of the best things the movie did provide was the early hint of the Green Lantern Corps. If continuity had been done properly, Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, John Stewart, Guy Gardner or whoever they decide to go with could be (re)introduced in a solo movie BEFORE JL2--which I hope (and pray) is the beginning of the ultimate showdown versus THE Apokolips big bad, Darkseid.

sigh. WB will probably crap the bed on the whole thing though. Hopefully, the upcoming solo movies will be gems along the way like Wonder Woman. Still, I do not understand the need to introduce 'magical' Superman, aka Shazam, who is simply Captain Marvel for DC. Personally, I think Warner Bros is introducing the character out of spite in reaction to Marvel/Disney's introduction of their Captain Marvel. The problem is that Captain Marvel actually participated in the original Infinity Gauntlet printed storyline in the comics and is thus a natural fit for the MCU's Infinity War films. Crazy.

 

[Stash]

Excuses? Are you ok? Re-read it. AGAIN!

If it his $600, $700, $800... still no good, right?

Based on the cost and what they're hoping to accomplish? Yeah, "no good".

This is their "Avengers" you know it, I know, it and everybody knows it.

Don't try to somehow make it appear differently when it's obvious underperforming expectations.

Stop trying to make excuses.

 

[Stash]

It is the studio's own fault. They quirked proper continuity, which was already blueprinted by Marvel/Disney.

• Batman was already reestablished with The Dark Knight trilogy.
• Superman was also reestablished post-Superman Returns in Man of Steel.

Two of DC's three heavy hitters were done. The next movies should have been

• Wonder Woman
• Aquaman
• Flash

--in that order and in rapid procession/theatrical release. DC's premier fighting team would almost be set at this stage. The premise for the current movie is sound. Its baseline is Apokolips. So

• Have the five established/reestablished heroes unite to confront the Apokolips lackey, Steffenwolf.
• Allow Justice League to have ONE subplot, the establishment of Cyborg, whose origin centers upon Apokolips technology.

Bodda boom bodda bing. Group superhero movie that can focus primarily on a big bad for 120 minutes without having huge chucks of mini-origins subtract from it--along with the forced punch lines to 'soften' the movie so that it can mesh better.

One of the best things the movie did provide was the early hint of the Green Lantern Corps. If continuity had been done properly, Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, John Stewart, Guy Gardner or whoever they decide to go with could be (re)introduced in a solo movie BEFORE JL2--which I hope (and pray) is the beginning of the ultimate showdown versus THE Apokolips big bad, Darkseid.

sigh. WB will probably crap the bed on the whole thing though. Hopefully, the upcoming solo movies will be gems along the way like Wonder Woman. Still, I do not understand the need to introduce 'magical' Superman, aka Shazam, who is simply Captain Marvel for DC. Personally, I think Warner Bros is introducing the character out of spite in reaction to Marvel/Disney's introduction of their Captain Marvel. The problem is that Captain Marvel actually participated in the original Infinity Gauntlet printed storyline in the comics and is thus a natural fit for the MCU's Infinity War films. Crazy.

Well said.

The sad truth is that one company has the formula down and gets it right every single time while the other continues to fumble the ball.

First thing D.C. should do is to get Zack Snyder the hell away from their product. You chose the wrong guy for the job. Fix that first.

 

[DallasEast]

Well said.

The sad truth is that one company has the formula down and gets it right every single time while the other continues to fumble the ball.

First thing D.C. should do is to get Zack Snyder the hell away from their product. You chose the wrong guy for the job. Fix that first.

lol. I am not that harsh about Snyder but getting the right guy OR gal like Patty Jenkins to help make the upcoming movies successful is an imperative. That I agree with 100% but it would not surprise me if WB would run off a wonderful director like Jenkins for some crazy reason. The studio is too erratic, which is not a good business philosophy to adhere to in the industry.

 

[Stash]

lol. I am not that harsh about Snyder but getting the right guy OR gal like Patty Jenkins to help make the upcoming movies successful is an imperative. That I agree with 100% but it would not surprise me if WB would run off a wonderful director like Jenkins for some crazy reason. The studio is too erratic, which is not a good business philosophy to adhere to in the industry.

It's obvious to me that Snyder tried to darken everything, because "it worked for Nolan's Batman".

His vision is Dark Knight meets 300, and it's a failure. He's just not good enough to handle this task.

Now I'm left to wonder if this experience hadn't quickly chased Joss Whedon away already.

And what kind of plan do you have where Affleck - your Batman - already wants out after two films and a cameo?

Looks to me like he's sent the incompetence and dysfunction first hand and wants no part of it anymore.

It's sad as a big fan of comics and their characters that Warner Bros can't get theirs right.

 

[DallasEast]

I am not as hard on Snyder because I equate end-of-the-world as dark material. Evil Kryptonians? End of the world. Soulless superpowered weapon of mass destruction (e.g. Doomsday)? End of the world. Apokolips herald (e.g. Steffenwolf)? End of the world. For me, those are vehicles for hard drama but Snyder does have issues that lower my opinion of him like timely humor, which does occur even in real life under the most dire circumstances, and he leans heavily on montage continuity editing (e.g. scene d is followed by scene a then reverse to scene z and back to scene b etc.etc.).

I would run from Warner Bros if I were Whedon. They are too controlling, which is not good for someone with his encompassing vision.

I was really worried about Affleck before BvS. I did think he was better in JL though. Regardless, Affleck is not the best fit for possibly any superhero role in my opinion. He established that deficit with Daredevil way back when. He is stiff and a touch of his personal failings like addiction seem to bleed through his performances. Maybe I am seeing too much into him but that is how I do see it.

Yeah. True comics fans are getting screwed. It is a crying shame. There are well-known and even lesser know actors and actresses who are perfect for these characters. We live in a great era of computerized graphic imaging courtesy of past/present geniuses like George Lucas and James Cameron. There are talented screenplay writers like Christopher Nolan and Christopher Markus. Yet, for some reason, a premier LONG established movie studio like Warner Bros cannot assemble all this massive talent and cinematic technology together, completely step aside, and rake in the cash. It is the kind of thing that makes me turn to my wife during times in JL and whisper, "What the heck???"

 

[Stash]

I am not as hard on Snyder because I equate end-of-the-world as dark material. Evil Kryptonians? End of the world. Soulless superpowered weapon of mass destruction (e.g. Doomsday)? End of the world. Apokolips herald (e.g. Steffenwolf)? End of the world. For me, those are vehicles for hard drama but Snyder does have issues that lower my opinion of him like timely humor, which does occur even in real life under the most dire circumstances, and he leans heavily on montage continuity editing (e.g. scene d is followed by scene a then reverse to scene z and back to scene b etc.etc.).

That sure sound like a one-trick pony to me. The Avengers dealt with an alien invasion through a dimensional portal, and nearly nuked New York. But it wasn't a slogging downer. There were stakes, but everything didn't have to be depressing. And the sun could actually shine.

I would run from Warner Bros if I were Whedon. They are too controlling, which is not good for someone with his encompassing vision.

Agreed. And I've read and heard that the guy he really butted heads with at Marvel is no longer running the film department.

I was really worried about Affleck before BvS. I did think he was better in JL though. Regardless, Affleck is not the best fit for possibly any superhero role in my opinion. He established that deficit with Daredevil way back when. He is stiff and a touch of his personal failings like addiction seem to bleed through his performances. Maybe I am seeing too much into him but that is how I do see it.

I think personal stuff is affecting his work and his thinking, no doubt.

Yeah. True comics fans are getting screwed. It is a crying shame. There are well-known and even lesser know actors and actresses who are perfect for these characters. We live in a great era of computerized graphic imaging courtesy of past/present geniuses like George Lucas and James Cameron. There are talented screenplay writers like Christopher Nolan and Christopher Markus. Yet, for some reason, a premier LONG established movie studio like Warner Bros cannot assemble all this massive talent and cinematic technology together, completely step aside, and rake in the cash. It is the kind of thing that makes me turn to my wife during times in JL and whisper, "What the heck???"

Truly a shame. On top of it, fans go at each other with an "us or them", "either or" stance on these things. Where one must suck for the other to be good, when I think the vast majority of us want it ALL to succeed and be good. But we don't lie to ourselves when it isn't.

 

[Stash]

Some interesting observations and food for thought here:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/17...shows-every-way-the-movie-copies-the-avengers

 

[cowboyeric8]

Well I enjoyed the hell out of it. I was thoroughly entertained. I thought they did a great job meshing all the heroes together to where they were a team and all of them were needed. The plot was predictable, as are most super hero movies. Could it have been better, sure. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. I've enjoyed Affleck as Batman.

The more movies the merrier for me. Just going to enjoy them. They are based on comic books, its supposed to be fun and entertaining. Excited for the after credits with Slade Wilson.

 

[Stash]

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1728630/how-much-money-warner-bros-might-lose-over-justice-league

 

[joseephuss]

Well said.

The sad truth is that one company has the formula down and gets it right every single time while the other continues to fumble the ball.

First thing D.C. should do is to get Zack Snyder the hell away from their product. You chose the wrong guy for the job. Fix that first.

You are lowering your standards if you think Marvel gets it right every single time. The first Captain America wasn't good. The first two Thor movies were bad. Iron Man 3 was hot garbage. The first Hulk movie of the MCU(Norton, not Bana) was terrible.

Marvel does things well, but they are not perfect. They have made their mistakes.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Well I enjoyed the hell out of it. I was thoroughly entertained. I thought they did a great job meshing all the heroes together to where they were a team and all of them were needed. The plot was predictable, as are most super hero movies. Could it have been better, sure. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. I've enjoyed Affleck as Batman.

The more movies the merrier for me. Just going to enjoy them. They are based on comic books, its supposed to be fun and entertaining. Excited for the after credits with Slade Wilson.

You said it kiddo!