Ken Hamlin's hit on Schobel WAS NOT HELMET TO HELMET

[pugilist]

well maybe the helmets hit, and maybe it was a penalty, but it was not "intentional" helmet to helmet as Aikbuck was saying.

i think maybe there's some incidental contact after the shoulder hits first but he definitely did not lead with the helmet like Aikbuck (lol i like that term) was saying

 

[pugilist]

Wow bro, for being wrong you sure do seem to have an attitude about it. I think if you watch the video again, yes he did try to lead with his shoulder, but right before he pops him with his shoulder the helmet makes contact first. You can clearly see Hamlin's helmet hit and the TE's head whip back before his body begins to fly backwards as well. Put your mouse at the :25 second mark of the video and click and watch the slow motion replay a couple times in a row. You'll see what I mean. I'm 100% sure it was helmet to helmet first.

That being said i don't think it was intentional as I do agree he TRIED to lead with his shoulder and I would hope he doesn't get fined for this.

are you serious? given the crappy video quality and the angle of the shot how in God's name can you definitively say the helmet hits first?

and about the attitude part, i don't appreciate being called a homer. maybe you should've read the post i was responding to before making that comment.

 

[AdamJT13]

One thing you have to remember --

-- Helmet-to-helmet hits (leading with your helmet into the helmet of another player) are illegal anytime, anyplace.

-- Players who are "virtually defenseless" (quarterbacks throwing, receivers in the process of making a catch, etc.) cannot be hit in the head or neck area at all, even if it's not "helmet-to-helmet."

Hamlin didn't lead with the helmet, but he did launch himself and hit Schobel in the helmet. And he'll almost certainly get fined.

 

[Yeagermeister]

He lead with his shoulder

 

[trueblue1687]

One thing you have to remember --

-- Helmet-to-helmet hits (leading with your helmet into the helmet of another player) are illegal anytime, anyplace.

-- Players who are "virtually defenseless" (quarterbacks throwing, receivers in the process of making a catch, etc.) cannot be hit in the head or neck area at all, even if it's not "helmet-to-helmet."

Hamlin didn't lead with the helmet, but he did launch himself and hit Schobel in the helmet. And he'll almost certainly get fined.

The second part of your paost is true. The first part isn't. Players regularly lead with their head (helmet) during running plays. In fact, our own Marion Barber is quite skilled at turning people wrong side out. Someone on here even has a photo of him uncoupling adam Archuletta(sp). Defensive players regularly shoot gaps and hit helmet to helmet. As to the fine...don't they usually come out on Mondays (following a Sunday game)?? Nothing mentioned so far, although Roy heard from the league apparently. I would be really surprised at a fine for Hamlin. the part about him hitting the TEs helmet has been debated ad nauseum and it wasn't called on the field and none of the replay footage can definitively show that...only assumptions and if you look close enough, you'll see they didn't...Hamlins shoulder was the knock out blow, and that is obvious.

 

[aikemirv]

i think maybe there's some incidental contact after the shoulder hits first but he definitely did not lead with the helmet like Aikbuck (lol i like that term) was saying

That would almost be physically impossible for there to be contact helmet to helmet AFTER THE SHOULDER HIT.

Now I will agree with you that the helmet to helmet was not the severe impact that the shoulder was but their heads were at the same level and from the video it is obvious that their heads hit and there is no way the heads hit after the shoulder hits. The shoulder would snap the head back before the helmet could contact it if that was the case.

It is kinda like the JFK shooting and the miracle bullet. Shoulder can't hit first and then the head, has got to be the other way around!

 

[lockster]

Aikman is starting to **$$ me off!! I don't expect and don't want him to be bias toward us, but he doesn't have to go out of his way to make sure we get penalized or flagged, especially, when we aren't even guilty of it. I thought Hamlin's tackle was just fine. Heck, I thought it was great!! even if it was close to being a helmit to helmit. Man, half the rules in the nfl are from some dang announcer running his mouth about us. The NFL is headed toward being the league of wussies if this trend continues. Man, this game is suppose to be rough, or everyone would want to play it. I would just as soon Daryl Johnston take over the announcing of games. Now, there's a tough dude!!!!

 

[FCBarca]

Aikman is starting to **$$ me off!! I don't expect and don't want him to be bias toward us, but he doesn't have to go out of his way to make sure we get penalized or flagged, especially, when we aren't even guilty of it. I thought Hamlin's tackle was just fine. Heck, I thought it was great!! even if it was close to being a helmit to helmit. Man, half the rules in the nfl are from some dang announcer running his mouth about us. The NFL is headed toward being the league of wussies if this trend continues. Man, this game is suppose to be rough, or everyone would want to play it. I would just as soon Daryl Johnston take over the announcing of games. Now, there's a tough dude!!!!

Easy hoss, exactly how does Aikman's play by call lead to anyone on the Cowboys getting flagged???

 

[AdamJT13]

The second part of your post is true. The first part isn't.

Yes, it is. If you LEAD with your helmet, you can get penalized and fined. You don't even have to hit them in the helmet -- if you hit them in the chest or the back or anywhere else, it's a penalty if you're leading with your helmet.

Here's the rule --

"There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be
limited to:

(snipped a through f)

( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily"

Players get fined all of the time for helmet-to-helmet hits on running backs. Newman got fined for hitting Marshawn Lynch this season.

 

[Gibby!]

Yes, it is. If you LEAD with your helmet, you can get penalized and fined. You don't even have to hit them in the helmet -- if you hit them in the chest or the back or anywhere else, it's a penalty if you're leading with your helmet.

Here's the rule --

"There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be
limited to:

(snipped a through f)

( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily"

Players get fined all of the time for helmet-to-helmet hits on running backs. Newman got fined for hitting Marshawn Lynch this season.

Is there really a question if thier helmets touched? I think the bigger question is, was Schobel in a defenseless position? Not that it really matters, some people see with their eyes, some people see with their hearts...

Impermissible
Use of
Helmet and
Facemask

(g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this Rule 12, Section 2);

 

[Nors]

Interesting thought, you almost never see it called on a running back when he initiates a helmet to helmet hit when running or blocking.

 

[trueblue1687]

Yes, it is. If you LEAD with your helmet, you can get penalized and fined. You don't even have to hit them in the helmet -- if you hit them in the chest or the back or anywhere else, it's a penalty if you're leading with your helmet.

Here's the rule --

"There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be
limited to:

(snipped a through f)

( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily"

Players get fined all of the time for helmet-to-helmet hits on running backs. Newman got fined for hitting Marshawn Lynch this season.

But did it draw a penalty?? No, it didn't. The NFL uses fines to perpetuate lavish lifestyles and programs. Big difference in fines and penalties. I can't ever recall a RB or a tackler drawing a penalty for that type of hit. I venture to say it happens every game. I think the intent of the rule is geared toward the "defenseless" player and not a blanket rule like you're trying to say.

 

[TEK2000]

Just for reference.

 

[lockster]

Easy hoss, exactly how does Aikman's play by call lead to anyone on the Cowboys getting flagged???

Announcers have a lot to do with the game. It's called pressure by the media. Ask Micheal Irvin. MAdden caused the Micheal Irvin no push off rule. Those jokers cause more problems than anyone I know to the game of football. Man everyone listens to what they say in the booth. Heck, the media can cause more changes not to just football but the whole world than any other thing or person I know of. Ronald Reagan's speech had a lot to do with the wall going down between East and West Germany!

 

[Arch Stanton]

are you serious? given the crappy video quality and the angle of the shot how in God's name can you definitively say the helmet hits first?

....and given the quality and the angle of the crappy video evidence YOU supplied how can you say it didn't?

 

[AdamJT13]

I can't ever recall a RB or a tackler drawing a penalty for that type of hit.

The Eagles' LaJuan Ramsey was penalized (and fined) for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Julius Jones during our game at Philadelphia this season.

 

[Idgit]

Is there really a question if thier helmets touched? I think the bigger question is, was Schobel in a defenseless position? Not that it really matters, some people see with their eyes, some people see with their hearts...

From the way that rule is described, 'helmets touching' and 'leading with helmets' aren't the same thing. It's a stretch to say Hamlin butted, speared, ro rammed with his helmet on that play, which is why the penalty wasn't called.

The defenseless player issue, i agree with, is the bigger question. Still was a hell of a hit, though.

 

[Idgit]

...(snipped a through f)

( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily"

Players get fined all of the time for helmet-to-helmet hits on running backs. Newman got fined for hitting Marshawn Lynch this season.

Wonder what the 'violently or unnecessarily' qualifier was intended to provide for. If it's necessary to butt or spear and you can do so non-violently, it's ok?

 

[joseephuss]

Aikman is starting to **$$ me off!! I don't expect and don't want him to be bias toward us, but he doesn't have to go out of his way to make sure we get penalized or flagged, especially, when we aren't even guilty of it. I thought Hamlin's tackle was just fine. Heck, I thought it was great!! even if it was close to being a helmit to helmit. Man, half the rules in the nfl are from some dang announcer running his mouth about us. The NFL is headed toward being the league of wussies if this trend continues. Man, this game is suppose to be rough, or everyone would want to play it. I would just as soon Daryl Johnston take over the announcing of games. Now, there's a tough dude!!!!

Did you not hear Aikman say he was wrong? FOX showed a different shot of the Hamlin hit and Aikman said that based on that angle that Hamlin turned and got him with his shoulder.

 

[JPM]

The Eagles' LaJuan Ramsey was penalized (and fined) for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Julius Jones during our game at Philadelphia this season.

Was that the late hit as well ?