Kenny gets Owned

[CowboyMcCoy]

Well, first of all, back side contain on that play is not Vaccaro's responsibility. In that scheme, the Safety is responsible for turning the back inside and not allowing him to get to the edge if the play is to you. If it's not, then your 1st responsibility is probably checking a back, WR, TE or QB on the boot. We don't know what his responsibility was on that play so it's hard to say it was on Vaccaro and he did make the tackle there. The responsibility on that play was the DE. He is supposed to check the backside reverse. That doesn't happen. The DE pursues down the line and never checks the backside reverse.

I'm sure that if you watch any player, your going to find plays where they look bad. I know for a fact, I can find those plays with Elam. Doesn't mean that Elam is a bad player but it also doesn't mean that he's a better prospect then Vaccaro right now.

Fair enough, but the whole game doesn't bode well for him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Fair enough, but the whole game doesn't bode well for him.

Fair enough but if you watch the WV game, I think that certainly aids in the case of Vaccaro being able to play in coverage.

I'm not saying the Cowboys should draft him in the 1st round but I am saying that he is, without a doubt, the highest rated Safety in this draft. If he doesn't fit a scheme as well as somebody else, then that's fine. I really have no problem with that but that's a different thing then saying Vaccaro is not the top rated Safety in this class.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I disagree with this. A lot of times you don't bring the player in and bring in others to throw other teams off in terms of what your plans are.

So they bring in a multitude of safeties, except one of those two, to hide the fact that they want to take Elam?

Seriously?

You know better. But at the very least I don't know that he is OFF their board like Rambo is so you got that slim chance of hope to go on.

And no there is not a LOT of times you don't bring in someone to throw other teams off. Especially with the Cowboys. It is the direct opposite. MOST of the time they DO bring in the player and wind up drafting one of the players they brought in.

Per an article on Blogging the Boys...LINK

What we know is that the top picks in six of the last seven drafts all visited Valley Ranch as part of the Cowboys' pre-draft visits. Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer, Felix Jones, Jason Williams, Dez Bryant and Tyron Smith were all brought in for pre-draft visits. That run came to a spectacular end last year when Morris Claiborne became the first Cowboys top pick since DeMarcus Ware in 2005 to not be invited to Valley Ranch prior to the draft. In fact, before the Cowboys drafted Morris Claiborne, they had no contact with him whatsoever. No visit, no workout, no call, no letter, no nothing.



So again it does NOT happen a good deal with the Cowboys, it is the direct opposite of that.

And even in Mo's case last year Jason has very strong ties to LSU coach Les Miles. I have no clue if he has ties with HC in Florida.

Look everyone knows you like Elam and you want Elam...but quit making up things and acting like it is correct when it is not just to try and justify it happening.

As I stated before...the chances are against Elam being taken and even worse chance (basically zero) of rambo being taken.

 

[blackbull]

Yes I would be mad that we would pass on a future pro bowler because he smoked weed like many others in the league do. But there are a handful of safeties I like in this draft. Vaccaro is just.........no. He's gonna spend his career chasing plays from behind and being fast enough to catch the person he's trailing. Yayyyyy

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes I would be mad that we would pass on a future pro bowler because he smoked weed like many others in the league do. But there are a handful of safeties I like in this draft. Vaccaro is just.........no. He's gonna spend his career chasing plays from behind and being fast enough to catch the person he's trailing. Yayyyyy

I don't want ANY of the safeties this year....taken at 18 of the first round. So it is not like a have a favorite.

Talent wise I think Rambo is the best playmaking safety in the draft but I am not going to waste time with some putz who is too stupid to stop doing the mary jane and cost himself millions or is too stupid to be able to mask it from tests. This team has had enough dumb players over the years.

 

[tm1119]

Even more of a reason not to draft him . Not only is he an average player all around , he didnt even play the true position we covet so much . That should tell you all you need to know about drafting him .

STAY AWAY !

That makes no sense. There are plenty of guys that play one position in college and get drafted as another in the NFL. Its just a matter of scheme difference really, Vacarro was certainly a S in college just not the same type of S we will use him as. Thats like saying we shouldn't have drafted Ware because he was a DE in college and not an OLB.

 

[Muhast]

[youtube]VrJd-vbajAU[/youtube]

I hope the coaching staff and scouts watched this game. I've been saying it over and over "watch the Tech game", so I thought I'd go back and look at the Tech game. At 4:22 you can see him really get eaten up by not staying at home and seemingly not paying attention. But the whole game just wasn't Kenny's day. I watched as many Florida games as I could and found that Elam wasn't getting taken out of plays nearly as much as Kenny.

I agree that Vacarro is garbage (have NO IDEA what people see in him, he rarely even plays the deep half so why do people think he'll be any good in our system?). However, Elam is also garbage. That diving at ankles crap to make tackles won't work in the NFL.

I don't want ANY of the safeties this year....taken at 18 of the first round. So it is not like a have a favorite.

Talent wise I think Rambo is the best playmaking safety in the draft but I am not going to waste time with some putz who is too stupid to stop doing the mary jane and cost himself millions or is too stupid to be able to mask it from tests. This team has had enough dumb players over the years.

Rambo failed ONE drug test. One. He was suspended a game for violating team rules(his gf had marijuana in her purse) he tested clean, got suspended a game anyways. The following year he failed a test immediately after spring break, and was suspended. It isn't like he is Tyrann Matheiu with 10+, he failed one in 3 years. You mentioned the Cowboys didn't bring in Rambo, and mentioned Mo getting drafted due to strong ties with les Miles. Rambo's DC is a former Cowboys coach Todd Grantham. He isn't going int he first round, maybe 2nd, probably 3rd. So I don't think the fact that they didnt bring him in, means much in his case due to the connection.

The Elam love here needs to stop. He isn't that great. He doesn't wrap up, isn't a sound tackler and stands around rather than pursuing the ball carriers quite often. He spends the large majority of his time in the box. He isn't a cover 2 safety.Watch an actual game instead of just highlight reels. I've seen pretty much every game he has played, and he is a late 2nd, mid 3rd rnd talent who is going to get overdrafted.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Fair enough but if you watch the WV game, I think that certainly aids in the case of Vaccaro being able to play in coverage.

I'm not saying the Cowboys should draft him in the 1st round but I am saying that he is, without a doubt, the highest rated Safety in this draft. If he doesn't fit a scheme as well as somebody else, then that's fine. I really have no problem with that but that's a different thing then saying Vaccaro is not the top rated Safety in this class.

In my rating system, he's not the top rated safety. Top 5, yes, but not the top rated....

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In my rating system, he's not the top rated safety. Top 5, yes, but not the top rated....

In the NFL's rating system, he's the top Safety coming out. I understand you have your guy. That's fine, I'm just saying your guy is not the guy that most have rated as the top Safety in this class.


Is Elam the top rated Safety in your system?

 

[BAT]

There are no "can't miss" safeties in this draft.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

So they bring in a multitude of safeties, except one of those two, to hide the fact that they want to take Elam?

Seriously?

You know better. But at the very least I don't know that he is OFF their board like Rambo is so you got that slim chance of hope to go on.

And no there is not a LOT of times you don't bring in someone to throw other teams off. Especially with the Cowboys. It is the direct opposite. MOST of the time they DO bring in the player and wind up drafting one of the players they brought in.

Per an article on Blogging the Boys...LINK

What we know is that the top picks in six of the last seven drafts all visited Valley Ranch as part of the Cowboys' pre-draft visits. Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer, Felix Jones, Jason Williams, Dez Bryant and Tyron Smith were all brought in for pre-draft visits. That run came to a spectacular end last year when Morris Claiborne became the first Cowboys top pick since DeMarcus Ware in 2005 to not be invited to Valley Ranch prior to the draft. In fact, before the Cowboys drafted Morris Claiborne, they had no contact with him whatsoever. No visit, no workout, no call, no letter, no nothing.



So again it does NOT happen a good deal with the Cowboys, it is the direct opposite of that.

And even in Mo's case last year Jason has very strong ties to LSU coach Les Miles. I have no clue if he has ties with HC in Florida.

Look everyone knows you like Elam and you want Elam...but quit making up things and acting like it is correct when it is not just to try and justify it happening.

As I stated before...the chances are against Elam being taken and even worse chance (basically zero) of rambo being taken.

Mr. Paint, what am I trying to make up and act like it's correct? If you're talking about Elam being better than Vaccaro, that's merely my opinion, which I think in the long run will hold to be true. But there's no telling. That's why it's my opinion. In terms of how he fits in with our players, I think Elam, with his tackling ability, fits in very well with not only our secondary, but our LBs and Dline as well. He's the kind of player that allows you to be a versatile defense.

I think once players start to fall of the board, and our options get narrower, some of these players will start to look more attractive. And personally, I don't think any player is off our board per se. Some may have lowered their scores, but I don't think anyone is out of the question other than maybe Mathieu.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Mr. Paint, what am I trying to make up and act like it's correct? If you're talking about Elam being better than Vaccaro, that's merely my opinion, which I think in the long run will hold to be true. But there's no telling. That's why it's my opinion. In terms of how he fits in with our players, I think Elam, with his tackling ability, fits in very well with not only our secondary, but our LBs and Dline as well. He's the kind of player that allows you to be a versatile defense.

I think once players start to fall of the board, and our options get narrower, some of these players will start to look more attractive. And personally, I don't think any player is off our board per se. Some may have lowered their scores, but I don't think anyone is out of the question other than maybe Mathieu.

I disagree with this. A lot of times you don't bring the player in and bring in others to throw other teams off in terms of what your plans are.

That is simply not the case and I went through great lengths to say it and you just completely ignore...so please quit acting like you don't know what I am talking about.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

In the NFL's rating system, he's the top Safety coming out. I understand you have your guy. That's fine, I'm just saying your guy is not the guy that most have rated as the top Safety in this class.


Is Elam the top rated Safety in your system?

Yes, for a couple of reasons. NFL ready instincts and the fact he's ready to play. He's also the guy I like to play the various positions safeties play and be successful. I know some knock on his pass defense, but I think he has a lot of potential there and really did pretty good in college anyway.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I disagree with this. A lot of times you don't bring the player in and bring in others to throw other teams off in terms of what your plans are.

That is simply not the case and I went through great lengths to say it and you just completely ignore...so please quit acting like you don't know what I am talking about.

If Dallas plans to get him in the 2nd, or even the 1st (which I doubt), then it makes sense. We shall see. I'm not promising Dallas will pick Elam. I have no idea who they'll take. I just don't think the fact that they didn't bring him in is really indicative of anything. That's why I didn't argue with it. To me it doesn't mean much.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

If Dallas plans to get him in the 2nd, or even the 1st (which I doubt), then it makes sense. We shall see. I'm not promising Dallas will pick Elam. I have no idea who they'll take. I just don't think the fact that they didn't bring him in is really indicative of anything. That's why I didn't argue with it. To me it doesn't mean much.

Your avatar is how I am looking at your post right now. :laugh2:

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Your avatar is how I am looking at your post right now. :laugh2:

Haha. I love that movie. Anyway, strange things happen in the draft. None of us know the future. We can only speculate. Usually I'm not a big draft person, because I'm not that good at it. I just have time on my hands this year and I'm about to have a lot more. I just happen to believe Vaccaro is a bit overrated and I think he'll struggle early on in his career. I love me some longhorns and I like Kenny V. But like you, I don't think he's worth #18 and he'll likely get drafted shortly after that before we pick in the 2nd. At least that's where I see his value.

Personally, I hope we trade back and nab more picks. The more I think about it, the more that makes sense. 18 is just a wicked spot to be in for this draft.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes, for a couple of reasons. NFL ready instincts and the fact he's ready to play. He's also the guy I like to play the various positions safeties play and be successful. I know some knock on his pass defense, but I think he has a lot of potential there and really did pretty good in college anyway.

I watched a lot of Florida football as well and I can't say that I saw what you saw.

It's cool, everybody has players they like.

 

[rkell87]

if anybody would actually like to educate themselves here is a great article on Diaz's system and its limitations against unbalanced and 5 wide sets

part 1

http://insidetexas.com/news/story.php?article=3719

part 2

http://insidetexas.com/news/story.php?article=3749

Vaccaro is a safety that was forced to play the slot most of the time because Texas couldn't trust the other safety to do basically anything. Mack Brown decided he wanted to play sec style D and asked around about who had a good D in the sec and hired Diaz without thought to whether his D would work in the big 12 and guess what? it pretty much doesn't because it's weaknesses match perfectly with the style offense that is prevalent in the big 12. Vaccaro wasn't allowed to play in a way that was best suited to his abilities and scouts(real scouts) know this and can still see his talent shine through because despite playing in a position not optimal for him a majority of the time he still did pretty well. He and Okafor were the only bright spots on a pretty bad Texas D. The guy isn't earl thomas but it isn't really fair to expect him to be as good as a proven top 3 safety in the NFL. He will be a pretty good safety in the NFL and I would love to have him provided cooper/warmack/richardson are gone.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I watched a lot of Florida football as well and I can't say that I saw what you saw.

It's cool, everybody has players they like.

I live in Austin, went to UT and watch every UT game. Kenny V is good, but he's not the best in the draft good.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I live in Austin, went to UT and watch every UT game. Kenny V is good, but he's not the best in the draft good.

I've not seen a Safety better. Since you live in Austin, went to UT and watch every UT game, I'm guessing that you haven't been watching a lot of other Safeties around the country?

These guys do this for a living. You and I have a passing interest. Lets not kid ourselves into some kind of thought process where we suggest we know more then they do about all of these players.

I have my own opinions and that's fine. They are my opinions but I'm not going to suggest that if virtually every scout is saying player A is the best at his position, good ole ABQ knows more. That aint gonna happen. I have my opinion and sometimes they don't match but that doesn't change the facts. Vaccaro is the top rated safety in this class and just because your system doesn't evaluate him as such doesn't mean he isn't the highest rated Safety in this class.