Kobe Bryant

[BruceWayne]

and if Kobe's not on the floor Shaq would have 1 ring instead of 4

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Better than Jordan?

If he wins 1 or more rings we have to put him in that category. Evidence of his greatest is the only person we compare him to is Jordan.

 

[jimmy40]

Not even close too being better than Jordan, Bird, or Magic.

Magic could play five positions, he played center in the deciding game of the finals one year. Let's see Kobe do that.

 

[Mavs Man]

If he wins 1 or more rings we have to put him in that category. Evidence of his greatest is the only person we compare him to is Jordan.

Kobe has three championships at age 28, which is how old Jordan was when he won his first championship. So obviously Kobe still has time to match His Airness.

But will it add up to six titles, two slam dunk titles, the 92 Dream Team Olympic gold medal, and career averages of 30 ppg and 50% shooting?

 

[cowheel]

If Shaq is not on the floor for the Heat last year in the playoffs and finals the Heat would not have won the title, no matter how well Wade played or how badly the officials screwed Dallas in that series.

Shaq wasn't on the floor. He was on the bench in foul trouble and the HEat didn't miss a beat...
mainly because Dwayne Wade shot free throws everytime down the court....

Shaq hasn't been Shaq for like 4 years now...

 

[cowheel]

The only time Kobe has ever won anything in his career was with a future HOF center and the most clutch player of the current era

Thats a pretty ironic uninformed reply! lol

Kobe lead hiHigh School team to a Championship.
Shaq never won anything on ANY level til Kobe joined the Lakers.

Then Shaq goes and joins a play off team with a budding phenom in Dwayne Wade.


If you want to make an argument for Shaq - Shaq should have went to a team like the Atlanta Hawks, and taken them to a Championship.
Don't go to a team ALREADY on the verge! lol

Shaq's choices were...the Haet or the Mavs?
Hmmmm... I'll give it to Shaq. Smart Guy.

I love Shaq. But he needed Kobe JUST as much as Kobe needed him.
No player can win a championship alone.

Not even Jordan.
The Bulls won 55 games the year he retired.



Don't hate on Kobe, man...
just appreciate his genius.

 

[cowheel]

Magic could play five positions, he played center in the deciding game of the finals one year. Let's see Kobe do that.

Different era. No way to compare these guys reallistically.

Back then - you didn't have but a handful of 7 foot, 300lb centers.
Now the league is full of 7 foot PFs that can play point guard.

You also didn't have guys with Kobe's size, skill set, and athleticism back then.
If you could pluck Kobe out of this era and plug him into that era back then... he'd truly be a freak.

You really think Magic could play center in this era?

 

[kev8822]

Kobe is a great player, but what excludes him from that list is that they made everyone around them better. Kobe doesn't do that, or has yet to show it on a consistent basis.

Yep, Kobe is holding great talents like Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Sasha vujacic, Chris Mihm, Aaron Mckie, Maurice Evans and Kwame Brown down. If it wern't for him they would all be all stars.

 

[peplaw06]

Yep, Kobe is holding great talents like Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Sasha vujacic, Chris Mihm, Aaron Mckie, Maurice Evans and Kwame Brown down. If it wern't for him they would all be all stars.

It's not like Kobe's Lakers are completely devoid of talent. Sounds like you feel sorry for him, making him a martyr.

He does have Lamar Odom (when he's not hurt), Luke Walton, and a rising star in Andrew Bynum.

 

[Deputy493]

and if Kobe's not on the floor Shaq would have 1 ring instead of 4

I disagree, Shaq could've gone to a number of teams and won the same amount of rings during that time period, the same could not be said for Kobe.......Shaq could've played with a number of star guards and won a title, but for Kobe there was no other big man comparable to Shaq to where you could say Kobe would've won that many, if any at all..

 

[kev8822]

It's not like Kobe's Lakers are completely devoid of talent. Sounds like you feel sorry for him, making him a martyr.

He does have Lamar Odom (when he's not hurt), Luke Walton, and a rising star in Andrew Bynum.

Notice they are the only 3 players I didn't mention. Though I should mention Odom 1/2 the time.

 

[Doomsday]

Kobe is a total ball hog only worried about getting his own. ESPN was showing highlights last night and on 3 of his buckets he had team mates wide open for easy dunks and he kept the ball himself and went in for the score. He is a great scorer and a great individual player but he will never win another title playing that selfishly in my opinion. Players like Jordan, Magic and Bird took their teams to the next level because they understood it wasn’t all about themselves.

 

[Doomsday]

Magic and Bird didn't play with Smush Parker either. If I'm not mistaken they both played with Hall of Fame guys especially Magic. Shaq won another ring because of Wade. He did nothing in the Finals last year

Larry Bird in 1980: “Larry Legend” joined the Boston Celtics as the highest salaried rookie ever in any sport (five years for a total of $3.25 million dollars) and lifted them from a team that won 29 games to a team that won 61.

They built around Larry but when he first got there they were an awful team. Going from 29 wins to 61 is pretty ridicilous. I think people forget how good Larry really was.

 

[kev8822]

Kobe is a total ball hog only worried about getting his own. ESPN was showing highlights last night and on 3 of his buckets he had team mates wide open for easy dunks and he kept the ball himself and went in for the score. He is a great scorer and a great individual player but he will never win another title playing that selfishly in my opinion. Players like Jordan, Magic and Bird took their teams to the next level because they understood it wasn’t all about themselves.

Tell that to Phil, because that is how Phil wants him to play. When Kobe was doing the sharing trying to get the other scrubs involved they lost 7 in a row. Phil tells him to score as much as possible, as soon as possible, and they win 5 in a row.

 

[Rampage]

Kobe is a total ball hog only worried about getting his own. ESPN was showing highlights last night and on 3 of his buckets he had team mates wide open for easy dunks and he kept the ball himself and went in for the score. He is a great scorer and a great individual player but he will never win another title playing that selfishly in my opinion. Players like Jordan, Magic and Bird took their teams to the next level because they understood it wasn’t all about themselves.

kobe doesn't have the great teams that bird and magic and jordan had. odom is good but not that good. kobe has a bunch of role players around him.

 

[Doomsday]

kobe doesn't have the great teams that bird and magic and jordan had. odom is good but not that good. kobe has a bunch of role players around him.

What great players were on the Celtics Bird's rookie season?

 

[L-O-Jete]

Magic and Bird didn't play with Smush Parker either. If I'm not mistaken they both played with Hall of Fame guys especially Magic. Shaq won another ring because of Wade. He did nothing in the Finals last year

Actually Bird had more HOF with him.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Putting Kobe in perspective
By Jemele Hill
Page 2

Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.

Not more successful.

Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.

Hasn't won more MVPs.




Hasn't won more titles.

But he's a better player.

Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.

Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.

At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.

Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.

Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.

Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.

In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.

Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.

The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.

Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.



Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

The NBA is tougher now.

Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.

The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.

Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.

Now that's a valuable player.

Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com.

 

[Yeagermeister]

What happened to the almighty Kobe last night? Outscored by Tarrence Kinsey?

Who?

And on top of that they lost to the Grizzlies? :laugh2:

 

[kev8822]

What happened to the almighty Kobe last night? Outscored by Tarrence Kinsey?

Who?

And on top of that they lost to the Grizzlies? :laugh2:

He plays on a trash team. If he doesn't go for at least 40 they lose. Lamar Slowdumb with 3 f-ing points. What a head case loser. The sonner he gets the hell off of my team the better.