KTCK on what Parcells wants in his OLB

[littlewebs]

I think Lawson is the better fit for OLB in the 3-4 defense. Look at successful 3-4 defenses. Almost every linebacker played DE in college. In NY, LT and Harry Carson and Carl Banks were DE's. In New England, Bruschi, McGinest, and Vrabel all played DE in college. The Steelers we faced in Super Bowl XXX had Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, and Chad Brown at LB, all former DE's. Even Ayodele was a DE in college. All the best 3-4 outside linebackers (and many ILBs) were defensive ends. There are no exceptions. Carpenter is an ILB in our scheme like Bradie James is.

When a 4-3 player (like an SOLB) switches to a 3-4, he is all of a sudden on the line of scrimmage every play. That's not something they normally do. They move to strongside ILB like Shanle did last year. It's like a 3 foot difference in where they line up. A former DE is lining up in basically the same place as he always did, right outside the offensive tackle on the LOS as the OLB.

I can't stress this enough. Great 3-4 OLBs always are passrushers in college. Lawson has plenty of athletic ability to be a great coverage player. He is over 6-5!!! And the "he can't play the run comments" don't really apply either. Playing the run as an OLB in the 3-4 is not the same as playing it as a DE in the 4-3. Lawson is a much better fit for us than Carpenter.

 

[Rack]

I think Lawson is the better fit for OLB in the 3-4 defense. Look at successful 3-4 defenses. Almost every linebacker played DE in college. In NY, LT and Harry Carson and Carl Banks were DE's. In New England, Bruschi, McGinest, and Vrabel all played DE in college. The Steelers we faced in Super Bowl XXX had Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, and Chad Brown at LB, all former DE's. Even Ayodele was a DE in college. All the best 3-4 outside linebackers (and many ILBs) were defensive ends. There are no exceptions. Carpenter is an ILB in our scheme like Bradie James is.

When a 4-3 player (like an SOLB) switches to a 3-4, he is all of a sudden on the line of scrimmage every play. That's not something they normally do. They move to strongside ILB like Shanle did last year. It's like a 3 foot difference in where they line up. A former DE is lining up in basically the same place as he always did, right outside the offensive tackle on the LOS as the OLB.

I can't stress this enough. Great 3-4 OLBs always are passrushers in college. Lawson has plenty of athletic ability to be a great coverage player. He is over 6-5!!! And the "he can't play the run comments" don't really apply either. Playing the run as an OLB in the 3-4 is not the same as playing it as a DE in the 4-3. Lawson is a much better fit for us than Carpenter.

Carpenter also played DE in college, Genius.

There are no exceptions.

Great 3-4 OLBs always are passrushers in college

What position did Ray Lewis play in College again?

That's right, he played LB.


What defense did Ray Lewis play in during the 2003 season?

A 3-4.

Who won defensive player of the year for the 2003 season?


Ray Lewis.


You're opinion/theory shot to hell.

And the "he can't play the run comments" don't really apply either. Playing the run as an OLB in the 3-4 is not the same as playing it as a DE in the 4-3.

If you get pushed around, you get pushed around. He took on Tackles in college, he'll take on tackles in the NFL.

The only difference is he'll be standing up in the NFL. How does standing up all the sudden make you a better run defender?

Don't give me that BS. I'm not saying he can't/won't improve, but don't tell me the improvement is gonna be simply cuz he's standing up. That's BS.

Lawson is a much better fit for us than Carpenter

Carpenter can rush the passer, cover (has A LOT more experience in coverage then Lawson) and is much better against the run.

People that think Lawson is a better fit tend to think Carpenter can't rush the passer. Wrong. If he rushed the passer as often as Lawson he would of had MORE sacks then Lawson.

So let's get that misconception out of the way, ok?

So BOTH can rush the passer.

BOTH have played DE in college.

Carpenter is the better run defender.

Carpenter has more experience in coverage.


Carpenter is the better fit.

 

[littlewebs]

Ray Lewis best years were in the 4-3 when the Ravens won the Super Bowl with Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa in front of him. I know he won DPOY in 2003, but he's not going to be remembered for being a great 3-4 LB. That wasn't even Baltimore's best D in the past 5 years. Ray Lewis is a great 4-3 MLB who also was able to do well in the 3-4. Besides, linebackers who win DPOY always just have huge tackle numbers. It really just means the defense was on the field more.

I am fully aware Carpenter was a situational DE at Ohio State. But he was still a linebacker. They just had run-stopper DEs. What will we do in nickel if he's on the team next year. Are you taking Ellis out so Carpenter can rush? I sure as hell wouldn't. But Lawson? That's a definite possibility. Move Greg inside.

And coverage-wise, yes Carpenter has more college experience with it. But Lawson is far more athletic, taller, and capable of being a far better in coverage and passrushing than Carpenter. Carpenter is a great player, don't get me wrong. But Lawson has the potential to be much better, and historically makes more sense to draft. Parcells even last year drafted the "higher ceiling" guy over the "ready now" guy.

 

[Zaxor]

my $.02 or whatever it is worth...I think all three have the potential to be very good LB's..I think Manny of the 3 has the most upside and I think Carpenter is probably the most finished of the the three...but if I had my ruthers...I think I would chose Wimbley as I think he has a nice blend from the both...jmho

 

[Rack]

Ray Lewis best years were in the 4-3

No no no no no... don't give me that crap.


You said all great 3-4 LBs were pass rushers in college. "There are no exceptions".


Whether Ray Lewis was better in the 4-3 then the 3-4 is IRRELEVANT. He was GREAT in a 3-4. Period.

He won defensive player of the year in a 3-4 defense. That kills your opinion/theory.


Was he better in the 4-3? Probably. But, again, that's IRRELEVANT.

I am fully aware Carpenter was a situational DE at Ohio State. But he was still a linebacker.

You said the great 3-4 LBs were pass rushers in college.

Why did they play Carpenter as a DE at tOSU? TO RUSH THE PASSER.


Sounds like a great fit to me. He just happens to have experience as a LB also.


Thinking that ONLY DEs in college can make great 3-4 LBs is completely stupid, IMO.


By the way...


Patriots:

Steelers/Pats...Chad Brown played OLB and ILB in college. Was drafted as an outside LB by the Steelers and had 30 sacks with the steelers in 4 seasons, including 13 in 1996 (in only 14 games). That was his contract year with the Steelers and went to the Seahawks the next season. Although he played very well for the seahawks, he never had the same type of season he had that last year with the Steelers. So a LB in college that played BEST as an OLB in the 3-4.

Again, your opinion/theory shot to hell.





Steelers:

Steelers/jets... James Farrior played OLB in college. Drafted by BILL PARCELLS with the #8 pick in the draft in 1997.

Didn't do so great his first years with the Jets, but had 2 very good seasons in a row the last two years for the 3-4 defense running STEELERS.

Did I mention this LB in college was drafted with a top 10 pick by Bill Parcells?




Larry Foote, starting ILB for the Steelers, played LB in college.



San Diego Chargers:

Donnie Edwards played LB in college. The Chargers have played a 3-4 defense the past two seasons. Here's a look at Edwards' stats the last two years:

2004: 150 tackles (104 solo, 46 assists), 1 sack, 5 ints, 8 passes defensed, 3 ff's

2005: 152 tackles (112 solo, 40 assists), 3 sacks, 2 ints, 9 passes defensed, 2 ff's


Now he's only played 2 years in the 3-4, but if had played 5+ seasons in that D and put up those kind of numbers every year, he would be considered great.




Randall Godfrey played LB in college. He's been no slouch for the Chargers.




Dallas Cowboys:

Brady James played LB in college. If you listen to the way some of the people here at cbz talk about him, you'd think James is the next coming of LeeRoy Jordan. Now I don't think he's been that good, but he has been solid. And, again, he was a LB in college, not a defensive end.



Didn't bother going through the 49ers or Browns cuz they're new to the 3-4 and are just implementing the scheme.

In NY, LT and Harry Carson and Carl Banks were DE's.

CARL BANKS played LB in college, not DE.


link

Parcells even last year drafted the "higher ceiling" guy over the "ready now" guy.

You and I both know that Ware's ceiling had NOTHING to do with him being picked instead of Merriman.

 

[theogt]

You watched a video clip and stated facts based on something you saw?

That would be an opinion, Genius.

LMAO. Watching a clip and stating, "Lawson was the first to get to the QB" is stating a FACT. Look up the definition Rack before you embarass yourself..........again.

And I have NEVER said Williams was double/triple teamed in THOSE CLIPS.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say THOSE CLIPS, but I was referring to the Mario Williams clip. In another thread you clearly referred to the Mario Williams clip. Let's see the backpedalling, because the facts don't lie.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54367

I just watched Mario William's highlights for the first time and what is striking is that more times then not Manny was beating Mario to the QB. That Manny fella is very explosive indeed.

Yeah, he did it while Mario was facing double and triple teams, and Manny blocked one on one. Most of the time anyway.

__________________

 

[Dough Boy]

LMAO. Watching a clip and stating, "Lawson was the first to get to the QB" is stating a FACT. Look up the definition Rack before you embarass yourself..........again.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say THOSE CLIPS, but I was referring to the Mario Williams clip. In another thread you clearly referred to the Mario Williams clip. Let's see the backpedalling, because the facts don't lie.

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54367
__________________

Thanks for the links. I missed the entire thread. I can't get the videos to play.

 

[stilltheguru]

its gettin heated in here.lol


it really does not matter if we get bobby or manny.just wait until saturday.

 

[speedkilz88]

Its pretty obvious Rack, you only have eyes for one player, it doesn't matter what you claim or put in your sig when all you do is claim one is great and the other you knock at all times.

 

[theogt]

its gettin heated in here.lol


it really does not matter if we get bobby or manny.just wait until saturday.

That happens when you have someone going around calling people liars and idiots.

 

[MiStar]

Thanks for the links. I missed the entire thread. I can't get the videos to play.

I wasn't able to play them with Netscape, but they worked fine in Internet Explorer. Perhaps the problem is with your browser.

 

[Crown Royal]

That's a load of crap. Parcells never said he doesn't like to try and disquise things. Ever.

He did say the part about the blitzing though. However, if you NEVER blitzed out of the 3-4, you'd only be sending 3 every time.

I suggest you go to the DC.com archives and check it out again. After the press conference, Dale Hansen AND this board spent a day talking about it.

He was discussing what Gregg Williams does on defense, and said that though it is a good philosophy, disguising the defense, it isn't his. He went on to talk about how he doesn't feel he should ever have to do that, that he just wants his defense to beat you straight up, even if you know what is coming.

And regarding the blitzing - you know what I meant.

 

[speedkilz88]

Parcells doesn't like to send more than four. I don't think he considers four a blitz even in a 3 man front.

 

[dallasfan]

He had 8 sacks rushing the Qb PART time. If he rushed the QB as often as Lawson he would of had MORE sacks then Lawson, playing on a LESS talented DL.

That's not neccisarily true. If Carpenter was a DE, he'd be going up against tackles, which would make it harder. As a LB he's as likely to face an OT as he is likely to have a free shot at the QB.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Are you trying to tell me that it's Parcells' MO to praise his players? Please PLEASE tell me that's what you're saying. I'd love to prove you wrong two days in a row.

well, you said BP supposedly saying he wanted 10 players like Ware would be giving him too much praise

What the **** makes you think I was referring to the original post when I posted "I just get annoyed that people have to make crap up to justify their favorite player being picked"?


Dude, don't jump into a discussion late unless you're gonna read the whole thing and be caught up. That quote wasn't directed at the original post. If you'd read up you would know that.

it was a joke Boo

What would be funny about it? Have you seen my sig? Wimbley is one of the players I'm hoping for (so is Lawson incase you didn't notice).

yo, chill out and take some Mydol man, another joke

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, I took it off. I like Canty as much as the next guy, but I thought our defense fell off more, especially against the run, once Ellis was taken out.

our run D was never that great to begin with, teams just didn't run at us much in the 1st half despite having a pretty good average

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What position did Ray Lewis play in College again?

That's right, he played LB.


What defense did Ray Lewis play in during the 2003 season?

A 3-4.

Who won defensive player of the year for the 2003 season?


Ray Lewis.


You're opinion/theory shot to hell.

Ray Lewis was an ILB in the 3-4, his theory is about OLBs in the 3-4 being pass-rushers in college

 

[theogt]

Ray Lewis was an ILB in the 3-4

:laugh1:

 

[Paniolo22]

This wreaks of Jackson vs Jones and we trade down and take Julius.

God I hope we take Mark Anderson in 2.

Who happen to most resemble the SOLB's BP has had before.

6-5/255, 4.6, 42 VJ

Willie was 6-5/250 when he came out.

BP likes height with his LB's along with size.

I would really be against Anderson. Yeah he is a good pass rusher, but that's as a DE. He isn't nearly athletic enough to make the transition to OLB. I'd rather have a Gocong later on.

 

[Rack]

LMAO. Watching a clip and stating, "Lawson was the first to get to the QB" is stating a FACT. Look up the definition Rack before you embarass yourself..........again.

Ok then either you're completely ignorant, you flat out lied, or you're seeing something that wasn't there.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say THOSE CLIPS, but I was referring to the Mario Williams clip. In another thread you clearly referred to the Mario Williams clip. Let's see the backpedalling, because the facts don't lie.

I never said anything about Williams beating double/triple teams in regards to any clips. I made a general statement about it. Maybe he did beat double/triple teams in that clip. I don't know. It was a clip of a player we aren't getting so I didn't pay any attention to him.

Yeah, he did it while Mario was facing double and triple teams, and Manny blocked one on one. Most of the time anyway.

That is a general statement. I'm not dumb enough to say something about a clip that I simply did not see (here's a hint, who WOULD do that? Yep. YOU.)

Its pretty obvious Rack, you only have eyes for one player, it doesn't matter what you claim or put in your sig when all you do is claim one is great and the other you knock at all times.

Dude, STHU. I've stated ALL ALONG that I'd be happy with ANY of the three. I still state that on a daily basis. Don't go f'in telling me what players I like and don't like.

I just debate Lawson's strengths/weaknesses and which LB is the better fit cuz you MannyLovers refuse to face facts.

That happens when you have someone going around calling people liars and idiots.

I called someone an idiot? This is news to me.

I called YOU a liar cuz, well, you ARE a liar.

I suggest you go to the DC.com archives and check it out again.

You're the one making claims that he said it, how about YOU go search the DC.com archives?

He said the part about blitzing. He didn't say anything about not wanting to disquise his blitzes.

well, you said BP supposedly saying he wanted 10 players like Ware would be giving him too much praise

It would be. You don't agree with that?

Plus, there's no proof that Parcells said it. There's only a radio host telling him that some dallas scout was told that by Bill Parcells. From one mouth (supposedly), to another, to yet another, then told to the radio stations listeners.

it was a joke Boo

Jokes don't go over to well on the internet w/o the use of smilies.

yo, chill out and take some Mydol man, another joke

See above.

Ray Lewis was an ILB in the 3-4, his theory is about OLBs in the 3-4 being pass-rushers in college

This thread, in general, is referring to OLBs. But littlewebs said ALL great 3-4 LBs were pass rushers in college. He even said "There are no exceptions".

He even named off some INSIDE LBs so no, that was not his theory.

:laugh1:

You laugh, yet you are wrong. The guy referred to ALL 3-4 LBs. If you read (if you can) the posts, you'd know that.


Actually, from what I've seen of you the info could be plain as day right in front of your face and you still wouldn't be able to see it.