Kyle Kosier

[Bob Sacamano]

It really depends on what were going to try and do. Kosier is excellent in pass protection but in run blocking hes better at sealing his man then he is at really drive blocking. Holland just gets better push in the run game.

you sure gleaned alot of that push watching him in a zone-blocking scheme in Denver, and like a game a quarter in Dallas

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Like you I want to see Proctor gone...preferably to the Giants or Eagles.
:laugh2:

Yeah, that's how I felt about backup Guard Ron Stone, until he left Dallas, went to Giants and became a Pro-Bowler.

What people need to realize is that Proctor is a Center primarily and a Guard secondarily. So he was not good at Guard; so what? Proctor is still the best option to backup at Center. And to think he cannot backup at Center based on his play at Guard would be ignorant, because I seem to recall a certain starting Center on these Dallas Cowboys who was drafted as a Center, moved to Guard, played poorly there, was then moved back to Center, and is now a starting Pro-Bowler at the Center position.

Like with Proctor, many posters here wanted Gurode run out of town when he was not cutting it as a Guard (always ignorant of the fact that his value was as a Center). So the "let's get rid of Proctor" talk, based on his play as a Guard, really has to stop because proctor is a Center first.

REALLY - this talk of deleting Proctor truly IS just as ignorant!

 

[AbeBeta]

Forever? He had just been traded and came over from Denver's zone blocking scheme to our man blocking scheme. Even then it was only a few weeks and he was starting and was light years ahead of Proctor.

I wonder about people sometimes.

Let's see 30 starts in New Orleans playing in a more traditional blocking scheme from 2003-2006. A single year in the Denver scheme, where he really didn't fit.

Didn't start until when? THANKSGIVING. So please, don't play the "only a few weeks" card. Proctor started the first nine games, then Kosier came back for two. Only after all that did he start -- THREE full months after being acquired.

Basic facts, Fuzzy

 

[fan62]

Uh, because of the OC, who was running time-based run blocking schemes, and having such huge lineman in pass protection all the time. Hudson Houck coaches the line, he doesn't draw up the manner in which the offense, including the line, attacks. Hudson Houck a Hof career, and the year before he came to Dallas, even Ronnie Brown was averaging 5 YPC. Tomlinson had his best years behind the OL that Houck coached. The guy doesn't simply forget how to coach the game in a year.

The fact is, Kosier was here in 2006, when Bledsoe was behind the line, and the OL was considered the weak link of this team and this was with Sparano as the coach. When Romo was inserted into the line-up, the OL looked better, but even then it had the December collapse. Kosier was in the game when the Giants came on in the second half in the Giants play-off game. Sparano was on the sidelines of this game, yelling at his line to protect Romo. They couldn't.

For this OL to succeed, a change in philosophy has too happen. Dallas doesn't just have to run the ball more, they need to be allowed to maul the defensive line. There really doesn't need to be that much complexity when you have players as strong as Leonrad Davis, Adams, Colmbo, Holland and Gurode manning the line. This OL should be moving forward non-stop and defenses should be yielding by the mid-third quarter.

Thank you for your response khiladi! That is exactly what I was looking for. I am no where near an expert on OL, but I couldn't understand why they bring in a new "great coach" and the line is worse than the year before. Excellent post to help me understand what happened.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let's see 30 starts in New Orleans playing in a more traditional blocking scheme from 2003-2006. A single year in the Denver scheme, where he really didn't fit.

Didn't start until when? THANKSGIVING. So please, don't play the "only a few weeks" card. Proctor started the first nine games, then Kosier came back for two. Only after all that did he start -- THREE full months after being acquired.

Basic facts, Fuzzy

He was getting snaps with the first team in practice just a couple of weeks after acquiring him. Its obvious from that, that they were prepping him to start but they just didn't feel that he was ready. He had to get acclimated, learn all the line calls, get a feel for his linemates, etc.

I am sorry but it just does not follow that because they wanted him to be mentally prepared that he is the inferior player. By your logic that would mean that the coaching staff thought that Proctor was better becasue he started over Holland.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you sure gleaned alot of that push watching him in a zone-blocking scheme in Denver, and like a game a quarter in Dallas

I hope you realize that by making this argument yo are basically saying that there hasnt been enough time to evaluate Holland. IOW, your argument that one is better than the other is invalid.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I hope you realize that by making this argument yo are basically saying that there hasnt been enough time to evaluate Holland. IOW, your argument that one is better than the other is invalid.

I'm not making any assumptions about Holland

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah, that's how I felt about backup Guard Ron Stone, until he left Dallas, went to Giants and became a Pro-Bowler.

What people need to realize is that Proctor is a Center primarily and a Guard secondarily. So he was not good at Guard; so what? Proctor is still the best option to backup at Center. And to think he cannot backup at Center based on his play at Guard would be ignorant, because I seem to recall a certain starting Center on these Dallas Cowboys who was drafted as a Center, moved to Guard, played poorly there, was then moved back to Center, and is now a starting Pro-Bowler at the Center position.

Like with Proctor, many posters here wanted Gurode run out of town when he was not cutting it as a Guard (always ignorant of the fact that his value was as a Center). So the "let's get rid of Proctor" talk, based on his play as a Guard, really has to stop because proctor is a Center first.

REALLY - this talk of deleting Proctor truly IS just as ignorant!

I agree. He showed time and again that he was great in space. He struggled when he was asked to man up on DT and lost ground. As a C hes not going to be asked to do that as much. He will help double and get to the second level a lot more than he did at guard. C plays to his strengths whereas guard does not.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Kosier>>>Holland

I'm not making any assumptions about Holland

Yeah you did. Typically multiple greater than signs denotes that he is much greater than.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah you did. Typically multiple greater than signs denotes that he is much greater than.

that was done tongue-in-cheek

I was trying to annoy you, and I succeeded

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that was done tongue-in-cheek

I was trying to annoy you, and I succeeded

You didn't annoy me. You just confirmed what I already know about you.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You didn't annoy me. You just confirmed what I already know about you.

that I'm your father?

 

[AbeBeta]

He was getting snaps with the first team in practice just a couple of weeks after acquiring him. Its obvious from that, that they were prepping him to start but they just didn't feel that he was ready. He had to get acclimated, learn all the line calls, get a feel for his linemates, etc.

I am sorry but it just does not follow that because they wanted him to be mentally prepared that he is the inferior player. By your logic that would mean that the coaching staff thought that Proctor was better becasue he started over Holland.

Oh boy. First team snaps in practice. Psssttt. That's not actually playing.

The fact is that if a 5 year vet can't figure out what he's doing enough over the course of 12 weeks to take the job away from an obviously under performing Proctor, then he likely isn't going to do much to challenge the team's starter. "Mentally prepared?" Please. He's a vet, who has played in several systems. He shouldn't take 3 months to pick this up.

 

[jobberone]

In order for it to be an "interesting battle," doesn't that presuppose that there is even a "battle"?

I don't think there is. Kosier is our starter hands down. And the way he played when healthy, he deserves to be. If Holland can beat him out, then great! But it isn't a position battle like 5th WR or backup SS. Holland - Kosier is basically like Choice - Barber or Bowen - Olshansky. One is the clear starter.

Kosier does not get nearly enough respect.

And I've never heard a reason why people want to bench him; they just do. Does he just look funny? Is it his name you don't like?

There is no 'good' reason IMO. People here wanted to run Gurode off. And Kosier, too. Now it's Proctor.

If someone can beat Kosier out then great. Then Kosier will be the backup for this year. But right now there is no one on the team with the possible exception of Holland who could beat him out. And Holland doesn't play in space as well or pull as well.

We do need another quality interior lineman and preferably one who can play Center as well as guard. If they can slip out to either tackle spot then yippee skippee.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh boy. First team snaps in practice. Psssttt. That's not actually playing.

The fact is that if a 5 year vet can't figure out what he's doing enough over the course of 12 weeks to take the job away from an obviously under performing Proctor, then he likely isn't going to do much to challenge the team's starter. "Mentally prepared?" Please. He's a vet, who has played in several systems. He shouldn't take 3 months to pick this up.

If they are giving him reps with the first team its obvious that they are prepping him to play.

Really if you think that him not coming in and starting right away on the offensive line is saying something them that is all I really need to know about your football acumen.

There are different line calls, blitz assignments audibles etc that he had to learn before they could even consider have him pass protecting Romo.

Get a clue.

 

[AbeBeta]

If they are giving him reps with the first team its obvious that they are prepping him to play.

Really if you think that him not coming in and starting right away on the offensive line is saying something them that is all I really need to know about your football acumen.

There are different line calls, blitz assignments audibles etc that he had to learn before they could even consider have him pass protecting Romo.

Get a clue.

You sit there and call me clueless when you are the one claiming "it was only a few weeks and he was starting?"

I said nothing about him starting right away. However, it shouldn't take a 5-year vet over three months to get ready. We acquired him August 28th. He started November 27th. If you don't see an issue there then you are too blind to see the clues all around.

 

[billknows]

Holland did not have conditioning issues while he was with us. I heard something about that whne he was with the Broncos but quite frankly I have a ton of faith in Juraszek.

I like Kosier do not get me wrong hes a solid starter but then again so is Holland. As BDC said its going to be a good battle to watch.

Agreed, would'nt mind seeing a rotation,and 4th Qtr freshness to help pound down the clock...

 

[khiladi]

The idea that Holland didn't play for so long, isn't really a stain on Holland. Holland wasn't playing most likely, because Garrett was clue-less. A report had Wade going to Houck to ask if Holland was actually ready to play, considering Proctor was just stinking up the joint. It was the same issue with the lack of using Felix and Choice from the perspective of Garrett. His inability to utilize Roy Williams, especially when he first came on board is another testimony to his 'genius'. The fact that Proctor was benched in the very last game to play Mc-quinistan shows more how inept with personnel Garrett was last year.

 

[CF74]

The idea that Holland didn't play for so long, isn't really a stain on Holland. Holland wasn't playing most likely, because Garrett was clue-less. A report had Wade going to Houck to ask if Holland was actually ready to play, considering Proctor was just stinking up the joint. It was the same issue with the lack of using Felix and Choice from the perspective of Garrett. His inability to utilize Roy Williams, especially when he first came on board is another testimony to his 'genius'. The fact that Proctor was benched in the very last game to play Mc-quinistan shows more how inept with personnel Garrett was last year.

Stop bringing in facts to this discussion.

 

[Idgit]

In order for it to be an "interesting battle," doesn't that presuppose that there is even a "battle"?

I don't think there is. Kosier is our starter hands down. And the way he played when healthy, he deserves to be. If Holland can beat him out, then great! But it isn't a position battle like 5th WR or backup SS. Holland - Kosier is basically like Choice - Barber or Bowen - Olshansky. One is the clear starter.

Kosier does not get nearly enough respect.

And I've never heard a reason why people want to bench him; they just do. Does he just look funny? Is it his name you don't like?

People didn't like him b/c he was a 7th round pick who came to us by way of Detroit and SF, was little known, and got a decent FA contract from Jerry Jones. He wasn't sexy and all he's done since he got here was prove everybody wrong.

People have wanted him replaced every offseason since he's been here. If they didn't learn our lesson last year, they never will. At some point he really will be replaced, and they can all take another victory lap.