Kyrie Irving to Boston

[Doomsday]

The Cavs traded Kyrie Irving to Boston for I. Thomas, Crowder, Zizic and the Nets 2018 pick.

I like Thomas, but he was a huge liability on defense and turned the ball over a bit too much for my liking.

Cleveland got added a clutch scorer to replace Kyrie and probably as much as they could of gotten.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Not a good deal for Boston imo. Kyrie is an upgrade from Thomas, but I don't know if that propels them past Cleveland. And then *if* Cleveland gets the #1 pick, then it greatly increases the chances that Lebron stays, thus Boston has to deal with Lebron+Bagley/Porter in Cleveland.

And god forbid, he opts out after 2 years.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Terrible deal for Boston. The only upside is they keep Tatum and Brown and still have a potential high lottery pick in 2018.

However 1) ( And Im not a Kyrie guy) He isnt that big an upgrade over IT if at all. And you dont have much more contract control

2) Marvin Bagley JR. Superstars win in the NBA. Generalional talents can start dynasties. You dont pass the possibility of adding a generational talent for Kyrie Irving.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Not a good deal for Boston imo. Kyrie is an upgrade from Thomas, but I don't know if that propels them past Cleveland. And then *if* Cleveland gets the #1 pick, then it greatly increases the chances that Lebron stays, thus Boston has to deal with Lebron+Bagley/Porter in Cleveland.

And god forbid, he opts out after 2 years.

I think its a great move for Cleveland, but I dont think Lebron will stay. Keep in IT is in a walk year as well. Where this is a huge win for Cleveland is in the rebuild post Lebron IMO. It gives them the possibility to replace a generational talent in Lebron with a generational talent in Bagley to kick off a rebuild and kick off a new era. They will lose for a few seasons, but basketball will remain relevent in Cleveland. Even losing out on #1 and getting 2 or 3, and you get a very level cornerstone in Porter or Doncic

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Terrible deal for Boston. The only upside is they keep Tatum and Brown and still have a potential high lottery pick in 2018.

However 1) ( And Im not a Kyrie guy) He isnt that big an upgrade over IT if at all. And you dont have much more contract control

2) Marvin Bagley JR. Superstars win in the NBA. Generalional talents can start dynasties. You dont pass the possibility of adding a generational talent for Kyrie Irving.

Yea, this is just a bad deal. Even *if* Kyrie pushes Boston past Cleveland, they still are no match for Golden State. Which is where they would have been after this year when Lebron left Cleveland. Now, assuming the Nets suck and Cleveland gets a pick that is 1-3 or so, it really gives Lebron a reason to stay and Cleveland likely beats Boston the next season.

On a side note, probably puts Cleveland back in play for Melo.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yea, this is just a bad deal. Even *if* Kyrie pushes Boston past Cleveland, they still are no match for Golden State. Which is where they would have been after this year when Lebron left Cleveland. Now, assuming the Nets suck and Cleveland gets a pick that is 1-3 or so, it really gives Lebron a reason to stay and Cleveland likely beats Boston the next season.

On a side note, probably puts Cleveland back in play for Melo.

Bostons true window was never gonna be with the core of Thomas/Horford/Hayward IMO. Maybe the last year of Horford deal when you have Brown and Tatum closing in on there cieling, but thats it. There real window was always down the line once Tatum, Brown , and whoever they pick with the Nets and Lakers/Kings pick reach there cieling. To me that has been compromised for a player who isnt guarenteed to be apart of that.

 

[Vintage]

Bostons true window was never gonna be with the core of Thomas/Horford/Hayward IMO. Maybe the last year of Horford deal when you have Brown and Tatum closing in on there cieling, but thats it. There real window was always down the line once Tatum, Brown , and whoever they pick with the Nets and Lakers/Kings pick reach there cieling. To me that has been compromised for a player who isnt guarenteed to be apart of that.

This, we agree on. Their real window was never with Horford and Thomas. It was and still is all about how Brown and Tatum pan out.

The aforementioned are good enough to make deep playoff runs, but they aren't going to get you last Cleveland (pre trade).

The trade gives you a younger guy at the PG spot who can be part of the Tatum and Brown core moving forward.

But I agree, it's a lot to give up.

 

[Doomsday]

Isiah is coming off a hip injury and hasn't played this summer. He is also about to turn 29, where Kyrie is 25.

There was no way they were going to give Thomas a max deal next year and rightfully so. You dont give a 29 year old, 5' 6" pg a max deal in my opinion.

Not to mention they still have the Lakers pick. Will they win a title next year, no, but this is a good move in the long and short term.

 

[darthseinfeld]

This, we agree on. Their real window was never with Horford and Thomas. It was and still is all about how Brown and Tatum pan out.

The aforementioned are good enough to make deep playoff runs, but they aren't going to get you last Cleveland (pre trade).

The trade gives you a younger guy at the PG spot who can be part of the Tatum and Brown core moving forward.

But I agree, it's a lot to give up.

There is still the possibility Irving may be bolt in 2019. I really hope they at least have some reassurance they he will resign. Im not sure when he is actually eligible to sign a super max with Boston

 

[darthseinfeld]

Isiah is coming off a hip injury and hasn't played this summer. He is also about to turn 29, where Kyrie is 25.

There was no way they were going to give Thomas a max deal next year and rightfully so. You dont give a 29 year old, 5' 6" pg a max deal in my opinion.

Not to mention they still have the Lakers pick. Will they win a title next year, no, but this is a good move in the long and short term.

This trade goes down alot easier for me if the Lakers land the #2 or #3 pick and we can get Porter or Doncic

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Isiah is coming off a hip injury and hasn't played this summer. He is also about to turn 29, where Kyrie is 25.

There was no way they were going to give Thomas a max deal next year and rightfully so. You dont give a 29 year old, 5' 6" pg a max deal in my opinion.

Not to mention they still have the Lakers pick. Will they win a title next year, no, but this is a good move in the long and short term.

Agree.

Thomas was a complete liability on the defensive side of the ball and there's no way I'm giving a huge extension for a guy with 1) a bum hip; 2) defensive liability; and 3) a 5'-9" shoot-first PG to be the centerpiece of my team.

I think the Celts positioned themselves well with Tatum and Green, acquiring Gordon Hayward and Marcus Morris. They still have Horford, who IMO is a much better complimentary player than centerpiece; he becomes that now. This is a deep squad.

I wouldn't worry about Kyrie leaving in the future; this is clearly his show in Boston and he now has a chance to create his own legacy for a storied franchise.

 

[darthseinfeld]

It will be interesting to compare the Celtics last year to this year as they now are returing 1 starter. However every position has been upgrade with the exception of SG, and even then Bradley missed alot of time. And while Bradley is better then Smart and Brown right now, both player have the potential to be better and either one would be an effective starter right now.

We have also cleared minutes for Tatum as a second team scorer. He has a clear path to a solid 20 to 25 minutes a game now. My guess is Smart is the 2 guard, Brown comes off the bench to defend wings and Tatum comes off the bench as a scorer.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It will be interesting to compare the Celtics last year to this year as they now are returing 1 starter. However every position has been upgrade with the exception of SG, and even then Bradley missed alot of time. And while Bradley is better then Smart and Brown right now, both player have the potential to be better and either one would be an effective starter right now.

We have also cleared minutes for Tatum as a second team scorer. He has a clear path to a solid 20 to 25 minutes a game now. My guess is Smart is the 2 guard, Brown comes off the bench to defend wings and Tatum comes off the bench as a scorer.

I remember watching their series against the Cavs and just being astounded in the lack of proficient scorers on the team outside of Thomas. They really looked amateurish in that series. Now, you've got at least two legitimate scorers and another potential one in Tatum and perhaps Green (I've never been a fan of Smart or Crowder as anything more than a supersub).

 

[darthseinfeld]

I remember watching their series against the Cavs and just being astounded in the lack of proficient scorers on the team outside of Thomas. They really looked amateurish in that series. Now, you've got at least two legitimate scorers and another potential one in Tatum and perhaps Green (I've never been a fan of Smart or Crowder as anything more than a supersub).

I think Smart is your proverbial Glue Guy. He is a good enough scorer to not collapse you're offense, but his main contributions are going to be defensively, as a playmaker and generally bringing an edge to your team. He is also a "knack" guy in that he has a knack for making a clutch play in some shape or form.

The Celtics of last year weren't what they were ( ECF team, and yes "weren't what they were hurt my brain to). Any other year and conference they were a borderline 50 win team that doesnt make it out of the 2nd round. They just had the luck of being in a possibly historically weak conference. And even then, they almost didnt make it out of the 2nd round. They got exposed by the only legitimate title contender in the conference. I think most Celtics fans knew deep down inside that would happen.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Something to consider: The Cavs may have gotten the wrong pick when all is said and done.

The Nets is completely unprotected, giving it a possibility it could be #1. The Lakers pick only conveys if it is 2-5. On the surface the Nets pick is obviously more valuable. However, consider the conferences they play. Both teams have no reason to tank, and the Lakers are going to have an infinity harder schedule then the Nets. The EC also has several teams in full tank mode. There is a distinct possibility that the pick the Celtics kept could be higher than the pick they traded. Saying that, from Clevelands perspective I still take the Nets pick over the Lakers due to the possibility of getting a generational talent

 

[jterrell]

good deal to me.
both sides had went as far as they could in one direction and needed to reverse course.
CLE had dumped all possible assets to build a small, strong core... but had zero depth.
BOS had collected assets at unheard of rate and had more talent than roster slots but needed an elite player to challenge for eastern conf supremacy.

Actually think CLE is a little better for the deal right now and into the future. IT is the type of quick, scoring creator LBJ needs on the team when he hits the bench.
Jae Crowder is actually a much better shooter, rebounder and essentially player than JR Smith.
The possible #1 overall plus Kevin Love is a nice package to go get a stud big man if LBJ re-signs. If not then #1 overall is a heck of a rebuilding start coming off another long playoff run.

BOS and CLE are very good teams and primary competition to each other in the East so they made this deal expecting it was a big win for themselves, and both may be right.
While time will tell both teams were in a tight spot.
Kyrie was tired of the CLE pressure and LBJ shadow.
BOS was going to be giving away players for 50 cents on the dollar because they didn't fit on the roster.
Jae was ballast for them with the star talent behind him in the high lotto kids.

Going forward imho the big things are what will BOS do with Marcus Smart (a player I personally love from being local but also his style of game) and what will CLE do with that Nets #1 pick.

 

[jterrell]

Something to consider: The Cavs may have gotten the wrong pick when all is said and done.

The Nets is completely unprotected, giving it a possibility it could be #1. The Lakers pick only conveys if it is 2-5. On the surface the Nets pick is obviously more valuable. However, consider the conferences they play. Both teams have no reason to tank, and the Lakers are going to have an infinity harder schedule then the Nets. The EC also has several teams in full tank mode. There is a distinct possibility that the pick the Celtics kept could be higher than the pick they traded. Saying that, from Clevelands perspective I still take the Nets pick over the Lakers due to the possibility of getting a generational talent

It is an interesting foot note but I don't think there's much real concern there.
The Nets are singularly untalented (I mean yuck --DeAngelo Russell next to Jeremy Lin??) and the Lakers are going to do everything in their power to avoid giving up that pick.
CLE needs that pick ASAP.

 

[darthseinfeld]

good deal to me.
both sides had went as far as they could in one direction and needed to reverse course.
CLE had dumped all possible assets to build a small, strong core... but had zero depth.
BOS had collected assets at unheard of rate and had more talent than roster slots but needed an elite player to challenge for eastern conf supremacy.

Actually think CLE is a little better for the deal right now and into the future. IT is the type of quick, scoring creator LBJ needs on the team when he hits the bench.
Jae Crowder is actually a much better shooter, rebounder and essentially player than JR Smith.
The possible #1 overall plus Kevin Love is a nice package to go get a stud big man if LBJ re-signs. If not then #1 overall is a heck of a rebuilding start coming off another long playoff run.

BOS and CLE are very good teams and primary competition to each other in the East so they made this deal expecting it was a big win for themselves, and both may be right.
While time will tell both teams were in a tight spot.
Kyrie was tired of the CLE pressure and LBJ shadow.
BOS was going to be giving away players for 50 cents on the dollar because they didn't fit on the roster.
Jae was ballast for them with the star talent behind him in the high lotto kids.

Going forward imho the big things are what will BOS do with Marcus Smart (a player I personally love from being local but also his style of game) and what will CLE do with that Nets #1 pick.

They want to keep Smart, but I dont know if they want to keep him on a baby max

It is an interesting foot note but I don't think there's much real concern there.
The Nets are singularly untalented (I mean yuck --DeAngelo Russell next to Jeremy Lin??) and the Lakers are going to do everything in their power to avoid giving up that pick. But then again if Potter is a baby max player, Smart probably is too. Not having to Super max IT probably helps, but you still have to super max Irving the next year. But then again, if Potter is a baby max player Smart probably is as well


CLE needs that pick ASAP.

I dont think the Lakers have that pick at all. Its the 76ers if the pick doesnt convey to Boston I believe. I think the Lakers are out of protections on it

 

[jterrell]

They want to keep Smart, but I dont know if they want to keep him on a baby max

I dont think the Lakers have that pick at all. Its the 76ers if the pick doesnt convey to Boston I believe. I think the Lakers are out of protections on it

Yup, they clearly like Smart as they moved both Bradley and IT.
Question is how much.
Baby Max and starting role?

And you are correct: --(I mistakenly thought the pick was LAL's if it fell outside top 5)
2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yup, they clearly like Smart as they moved both Bradley and IT.
Question is how much.
Baby Max and starting role?

And you are correct: --(I mistakenly thought the pick was LAL's if it fell outside top 5)
2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

I think Smart is our most likely SG this year. Could be Brown, but I dont think he is quite ready. Could be Hayward with Tatum or Brown at SF but see the former. At this stage Smart is the most ready and probably the best option to pair with Irving. This way you have Smart to defend 1's, or whomever the oppositions best perimeter player. And Smart isnt gonna spread the court offensively, he isnt going to collapse it either. He still has to de defended on the perimeter even at a low percentage because he gets hot.