Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

[ABQCOWBOY]

You don't understand the position the NCAA is in. This is an excellent article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/co...0327/ncaa-athletes-union-ruling-northwestern/

To me, all this really confirms is why programs will kill their athletic departments.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

To me, all this really confirms is why programs will kill their athletic departments.

you think they would rather just cancel the whole thing and pick up their toys and go home when there are billions of dollars at stake? If they threatened to do that they would be thrown out.

Powerful men often act like children in their bid for control so who knows but I have a feeling that the same thing will happen that happened with all of the other sports leagues. People will negotiate a settlement after negotiations between all of the parties involved.

I can sympathize for people that are worried about the smaller sports but I expect that all of those rank and file types will get a seat at the table at the end of the day. If they do not then I it would be the same injustice that is currently going on.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

you think they would rather just cancel the whole thing and pick up their toys and go home when there are billions of dollars at stake? If they threatened to do that they would be thrown out.

Powerful men often act like children in their bid for control so who knows but I have a feeling that the same thing will happen that happened with all of the other sports leagues. People will negotiate a settlement after negotiations between all of the parties involved.

I can sympathize for people that are worried about the smaller sports but I expect that all of those rank and file types will get a seat at the table at the end of the day. If they do not then I it would be the same injustice that is currently going on.

I think that all but the Power6 would, yes. First of all, the Power6 Conferences make enough money to sustain this so eventually, if they go this route, they could find themselves as the only ones at the table. That means all of the TV Revenue, all of the money associated, which could then support the long term ramifications of what I believe this will mean.

All others, I think the get out of the business and focus on their real revenue opportunities, which are education and R&D. This way, they avoid the long term cost/problems that are sure to come from this.

What does that mean? Lots of athletes that no longer have an opportunity to get educations via athletic scholarships.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think that all but the Power6 would, yes. First of all, the Power6 Conferences make enough money to sustain this so eventually, if they go this route, they could find themselves as the only ones at the table. That means all of the TV Revenue, all of the money associated, which could then support the long term ramifications of what I believe this will mean.

All others, I think the get out of the business and focus on their real revenue opportunities, which are education and R&D. This way, they avoid the long term cost/problems that are sure to come from this.

What does that mean? Lots of athletes that no longer have an opportunity to get educations via athletic scholarships.

Northwestern made $285m over an 8 year period from the football team according to the article. They have an enrollment of 19k or about half of the larger schools.

If they cannot figure it out then that is pretty sad.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Northwestern made $285m over an 8 year period from the football team according to the article. They have an enrollment of 19k or about half of the larger schools.

If they cannot figure it out then that is pretty sad.

I think it was actually 9 years, 2003-2012. However, the part that is not being mentioned is that the expense associated, the 235 is revenue and not profit I believe, is across all sports. Another words, that number has to be in context with what it costs to support all other sports, men and women. Now, consider the future costs associated with what Unions mean and further, understand that if you are not a NorthWestern in a conference like the Big 12, your financial situation is much, much worse.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Now, again, let me also point out that Northwestern also made something in the area of 80 million in licensing revenue from energy based developed products in 2013 alone. They received 517 Million for R&D. What would be the reason for a University, like Northwestern to invest in College Sports when all it will do is lose money? As you and I both know, education is about making money. These Universities, IMO, will make business decisions here and simply get rid of areas of their business that represent long term loss.

It is what it is and I think the writing is on the wall here.

 

[Richmond Cowboy]

The fundamental transformation of America continues...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Another thing to consider is that ultimately the universities are going to have to negotiate with the players. It's all of the players too as college basketball, baseball or whatever else will get a seat at the table. I am speculating here but at the end of the day the NCAA will be the proxy and not the conferences that the presidents use to negotiate through.

By this time next year the O'Bannon case will be concluded and who knows how many other student bodies apply to the NLRB. They are running out of time to get out in front of this.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Now, again, let me also point out that Northwestern also made something in the area of 80 million in licensing revenue from energy based developed products in 2013 alone. They received 517 Million for R&D. What would be the reason for a University, like Northwestern to invest in College Sports when all it will do is lose money? As you and I both know, education is about making money. These Universities, IMO, will make business decisions here and simply get rid of areas of their business that represent long term loss.

It is what it is and I think the writing is on the wall here.

Northwestern made hundreds of millions of dollars. You can keep parroting that they will lose money but you have no idea what kind of compensation for labor we are talking about and much less how that would effect their margins. Just repeating that they are going to lose money does not make it so.

There is also no reason why the NCAA couldn't still subsidize college athletics as a whole after some sort of agreement is made. I don't imagine the NLRB would turn away the Kentucky basketball team or the Duke lacrosse team. It is in the NCAA best interest to get the little guy involved as much as possible.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Northwestern made hundreds of millions of dollars. You can keep parroting that they will lose money but you have no idea what kind of compensation for labor we are talking about and much less how that would effect their margins. Just repeating that they are going to lose money does not make it so.

There is also no reason why the NCAA couldn't still subsidize college athletics as a whole after some sort of agreement is made. I don't imagine the NLRB would turn away the Kentucky basketball team or the Duke lacrosse team. It is in the NCAA best interest to get the little guy involved as much as possible.

And you, in turn, can sell the virtues of Union but I'm pretty sure everybody pretty much knows who and what they are.

As for Duke and Kentucky, I'm sure you are right. They are both members of Power Conferences.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you, in turn, can sell the virtues of Union but I'm pretty sure everybody pretty much knows who and what they are.

As for Duke and Kentucky, I'm sure you are right. They are both members of Power Conferences.

The NLRB set a standard of a private school that obtains money via its sports program. The conferences are external constructions that will be meaningless to the NLRB. Kessler will take anyone else ie the public schools.

The NCAA can get out in front of this like the NFL which got a nice salary cap and revenue sharing agreements. There is a wealth of precedent. If the NCAA mobilizes the smaller sports and gets them organized and advocating, their interests should lie with the conservation of the current system. I think that would be a good environment for getting something worked out fair for all parties involved.

 

[Hoofbite]

Would it be possible for someone to play without being enrolled?

Then schools wouldn't even have to keep players academically eligible.

Just curious.

 

[burmafrd]

what will happen is that many schools that have borderline programs as regards revenue will drop even more sports. Fuzzy somehow does not either get this or ignores it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The NLRB set a standard of a private school that obtains money via its sports program. The conferences are external constructions that will be meaningless to the NLRB. Kessler will take anyone else ie the public schools.

The NCAA can get out in front of this like the NFL which got a nice salary cap and revenue sharing agreements. There is a wealth of precedent. If the NCAA mobilizes the smaller sports and gets them organized and advocating, their interests should lie with the conservation of the current system. I think that would be a good environment for getting something worked out fair for all parties involved.

I know that. I posted much earlier that this specific ruling only effects 17 schools. However, we all know that the larger picture is what is being discussed here.

I think you are wrong on the later.

 

[erod]

You are talking about something that is of personal value to you. That is great and all but I look to objective measures. At the end of the day you are looking at it as an investment.

And I am sorry but you are ignoring history. I have read a whole lot of sports law over the years. It's a hobby that I picked up during the various strikes and lockouts. All of the 'firms will fail' arguments were used in every sport. Its a go to argument. I look at the leagues now and I can only shake my head.

This does not have to be bend over the NCAA time. The college presidents can agree or not agree to whatever they like. Those kids deserve a seat at that particular table. All of them. This condescending BS about whats good for them while those same presidents make billions of dollars is wrong.

Students are not employees of a university. They attend the university. Period.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Students are not employees of a university. They attend the university. Period.

Not according to the NLRB. As the NLRB ruled, any "student athlete" at a private university will be recognized as employees and afforded the rights and benefits accordingly. It's under appeal but there is also a court case by Kessler who worked for the NFL and NBA recently. He is having the federal courts review it for everyone else. The clock is ticking.

It's about compensation for services rendered and the NCAA stamping its foot about its own constructs has as much sway as the NFL's did when it made these same arguments. Calling them "student athletes" doesn't turn a blind eye to the ticket sales or the TV and licensing contracts.

The courts do not care about what they are called. They care about what they do and how it fits into their constructs. It's a legal standard applied over and over again. If the NCAA chooses to ignore history then they get what they get.

 

[erod]

Not according to the NLRB. As the NLRB ruled, any "student athlete" at a private university will be recognized as employees and afforded the rights and benefits accordingly. It's under appeal but there is also a court case by Kessler who worked for the NFL and NBA recently. He is having the federal courts review it for everyone else. The clock is ticking.

It's about compensation for services rendered and the NCAA stamping its foot about its own constructs has as much sway as the NFL's did when it made these same arguments. Calling them "student athletes" doesn't turn a blind eye to the ticket sales or the TV and licensing contracts.

The courts do not care about what they are called. They care about what they do and how it fits into their constructs. It's a legal standard applied over and over again. If the NCAA chooses to ignore history then they get what they get.

Then a detailed study needs to be done for the compensation they receive - tuition, fees, room and board, food, transportation, exposure through media, broadcasts, etc, - and they should be taxed accordingly as anyone else would.

For a player at Stanford, that'll come to about $100,000 a year or more. Mom and dad can write the check for the income taxes on that.

 

[peplaw06]

It's laughable to think that paying players what market value would dictate would cause the demise of all college sports. Paying football coaches $5+ million per year, chartering flights all over the country, paying billions of dollars for facilities, etc., none of that apparently threatens the viability of all college sports. Even baseball coaches in the SEC make over a million a year.

The ad revenue alone for March Madness last year was $1.15 Billion... with a B. Fuzzy's right. Acting like paying players is going to bankrupt these universities or cause college sports to collapse is fear mongering.

 

[peplaw06]

Students are not employees of a university. They attend the university. Period.

They are students when they are in the classroom. Outside the classroom there is literally no difference between them and an employee. They devote 40-50 hours per week to their craft, and have strict schedules. They get "paid" in the form of scholarships, room & board, books, etc. They have strict requirements on what they can and cannot do, from what "gifts" they can accept to what they can post on social media.

A student who is just a student has the ability to go get a job outside of class. He gets paid, he pays taxes. He has the time to devote to an outside job. He is still a student for purposes of the university, but he is also an employee outside of class.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not according to the NLRB. As the NLRB ruled, any "student athlete" at a private university will be recognized as employees and afforded the rights and benefits accordingly. It's under appeal but there is also a court case by Kessler who worked for the NFL and NBA recently. He is having the federal courts review it for everyone else. The clock is ticking.

It's about compensation for services rendered and the NCAA stamping its foot about its own constructs has as much sway as the NFL's did when it made these same arguments. Calling them "student athletes" doesn't turn a blind eye to the ticket sales or the TV and licensing contracts.

The courts do not care about what they are called. They care about what they do and how it fits into their constructs. It's a legal standard applied over and over again. If the NCAA chooses to ignore history then they get what they get.

and that is why it will be appealed, you don't fire students. They are required to go to class to learn and when grades drop they are suspended from play. You act as if this is some typical business and it isn't. Kids benifet with a college education that is the trade off. I'm not surprised that a big union town is behind this and as most unions have done to industry they will destroy it. Town after town in strong union areas have paid the price and schools too will suffer at the hands of the Union.