Landry not White to blame for 1981 Niner Loss

DavyBaby

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According to the recent book "The Catch," Ernie Stautner (Defensive coordinator) had complete autonomy on the defensive alignments. It was Stautner that decided to go "prevent" on that last drive. Of course Landry could have countermanded him.

According to the book, Charlie Waters strongly protested to Stautner, and Stautner responded he could revert to a base defense but he would let the world know that it would be Waters's decision and responsibility. Waters was unwilling to accept that responsibility.

It all sounds a bit dysfunctional during a crucial point in the game. BTW--I thought the book overall was pretty good. I have always been a Cowboys fan, but I also have tremendous respect for the 49ers and Bill Walsh.

Oddly both Landry and Walsh died at age 75 of Leukemia.


speedkilz88;3171913 said:
The final drive Landry also decided to go prevent and the 49ers ran the ball down their throat. I also think by the 80s the flex was outdated and the type of talent they had on defense would have been better suited to an attacking style.
 

Sitting Bull

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T-RO;3171873 said:
I watched a good deal of the game last night and I really came away with a sense that Landry screwed up big time.

There is no way you lose a playoff game when the other team has six turnovers when your quarterback is playing well...

Except if you as a coach screw it up and that's exactly what Tom did. He insisted on running the ball and it kept the Niners in the game until his defense was gassed and the crowd went crazy.

Let's be real. Danny White OUTPLAYED Joe Montana in that game. Even at the end if he gets a little protection White is heroic and that game is remembered in a very different fashion.

But Tom kept everything grounded despite the fact that the Cowboys only averaged 3.6 yards per carry. White was very productive when they cut him loose. 16 of 24 for 173 yards, 2 TDs against 1 INT. The Niners threw the ball 11 more times and were rewarded with the victory.

White QB rating for the game: 98.1
Montana QB rating for the game: 81.3

On that final drive Montana missed his receivers several times and I've heard it often said that Joe was just trying to throw the ball away when Clark caught the winning TD.

Ultimately however the coach (Walsh) who better appreciated the value of throwing the ball ended up the winner---for the year and for the decade.

Danny White was my favorite player growing up. He was cool under fire and was capable of some amazing games- this was one of them. I get sick watching the pass after "the catch"- Eric Wright's desperation, fingertip tackle of Drew Pearson at the shoulder pads that saved a 75-yard TD that would've sent Dallas to the Super Bowl and changed Danny White's entire career. His ultimate penchant for throwing untimely interceptions ripped my heart out on more than a few occasions but I loved watching him play.
 

burmafrd

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so many young fans talking about things they know nothing about.

1) Cowboys were more talented. Look at who was on both teams and its clear. This was before the 49rs really assembled.

2) Walsh had just installed the WCO in the last 2 years. It takes time for defenses to catch up with new offenses.

3) The Flex was not outdated- but it took so long for players to learn it if you made bad drafts you were dead. In the 80's that is what happened.

4) This was still a running league and would remain heavily run dominated for almost all the 80's and into the early 90's before the shift really started to happen.

5) Danny was a very good QB but he was not Roger who was truly idolized and loved and the team had had total confidence that he would find a way to win. Had we won that game we win the SB and the team then gets confidence in him. If Drew does not get shirtailed we win that game.

6) How gomers here have the nerve to try and claim Landry was not a great coach just really makes me mad. YOU MORONS KNOW NOTHING. It took him a couple of years to adjust to the WCO and he was handicapped because the personel office and scouts deteriorated and we had bad drafts. BUT even with less talent and aging players we were still fighting for it all through 1985. He realized that pass pressure was critical and that you needed ball hawks in the secondary= we picked off a lot of passes and had high sack numbers through most of the 80's which was different before.

7) TD did fumble a lot. BUT its kind of interesting in that a lot of his fumbles he either got back or a team mate got- for some reason the number of lost fumbles was not that bad. And what he brought to the game was still worth a lot more.
 

BlueBandit

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tunahelper;3172019 said:
Dorsett 173 career games- 90 fumbles! :eek:
The Other thing people hate when I tell them, is that Tony D - LOVED to run out of bounds - he was a notorious , 5 and glide guy, get out and back to the huddle. I saw him from his Pitt days, I loved Tony, but he would put the rock on the ground and he'd not fight at times, he was however a missile when lose.

Landry was a brain surgeon, an innovator, a computer geek of yesteryear , however he went to the Prevent or the 4-0-7 as some called it WAY too early in the game!

Also Landry didn't like change , we were playing that Championship game in a new decade , a new era of Football , in a time where guys did 5-6 years and retired , with MANY players from the early 70's and the core was still the same ! Only Roger to Danny changed as a main character.

And the truth be told,Danny White was a bum, a bad big QB who often looked scared and often looked confused and often would throw the ball up for grabs.

Making it even crazier, we get back to the Championship Game v Wash with much of the same cast!

AND and!!! in 1986 with finally Herschel Walker leading our attack, we go into giants stadium and beat them on opening nite and are stride for stride with them until White's wrist is broken in a brutal 17-14 loss @ NYG , from there Steve Pelluer put us in the turlet. Tony Hill and Doug Cosbie were stil main cogs in 86' even though it was finally a year of change with Mike Sherrard and Hersch , and Paul Hackett (vomit)
 

casmith07

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THUMPER;3171896 said:
My biggest problem with Tom Landry throughout his career was when we had a lead and he went into prevent mode. I hated that! He was a much better coach when we were playing from behind. Way too many times we let teams hang around back then (and today) because we tried to sit on a lead. Parcells had that same problem when he was with us.

I HATE PREVENT!!! :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

The prevent defense is one of the things I would never run as a coach unless it was a hail mary/hook-n-lateral attempt.
 

bbgun

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I love how DeBartelo essentially conceded the game because he didn't think his team could travel 89 yards in five minutes. That's an eternity in the NFL. Sure, they weren't as explosive back then, but that's plenty of time to dink and dunk your way down the field for a TD.
 

Americas_Team

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THUMPER;3171896 said:
My biggest problem with Tom Landry throughout his career was when we had a lead and he went into prevent mode. I hated that! He was a much better coach when we were playing from behind. Way too many times we let teams hang around back then (and today) because we tried to sit on a lead. Parcells had that same problem when he was with us.

I HATE PREVENT!!! :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

I remember watching that game live, and I agree 100%. they were able to move tha ball in that final drive thanks to the prevent defense. If we has played regular defense, the game would have ended with Danny White in the victory formation. But it's hard for me to blame coach Landry, we owe what the cowboys are in the NFL history to him.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Wanna see something worse?

Youtube the last 2 minutes of SB X against the Steelers. That's some of the worst 2 minute offense you have ever seen! We should have won that game.

The quality of play in the NFL 30 years ago compared to today's game is poor.
 

Next_years_Champs

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I watched this game as well and I think it is rather naive to think the switch to a prevent on that last dive as "the reason" we lost that game.
First as Joe Montana would go on to prove in the future he was more than capable of carving up teams with the pass, hey it can be argued he's was the best ever.
Second Coach Landry when faced with a team that had gotten to where it was on the strength of it's passing game chose to try and stop the pass when all the marbles were on the table. Not only was that a valid strategy it was probably the correct call based on the fact that their leading rusher had like 550 yds on the season. Now granted it didn't work but I don't think that strategy can be called "the reason" for this loss.
The fact is the 49ers were a talented ascending team and the Cowboy were starting to feel the results of the drafting and front office mistakes which had been going on for several years. The 49ers won because they fielded the better team it really is that simple.
And really I never felt Danny White was responsible for it either, and I don't really remember many people that did. Danny played well that game and most of the complaints about Danny came in later years, Danny could be rattled later on in his career but since he took some terrible beatings its hard to say it was un-warranted.
 

TwoDeep3

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Just ask yourself this.

Fifty-four seconds left in that game and Staubach is the quarterback instead of Danny White.

A. Does Dallas lose?

B. Is anyone having a discussion on Landry, the defensive collapse, or even Montana being the best ever?

White completed a pass that got Dallas close enough that field goal range was twenty yards away.

White fumbled. Not Landry. Not the defense. Not the legend of Montana or greatness of Walsh and the 9ers.

So often people rewrite history about this game so the pet cats who failed are not liable.

Staubach wins that game regardless of Dwight Clark and Joe Montana.

Danny White did not.

Occam's razor applies here, boys. If all things else are equal, the simplest solution is usually correct.

White fumbled away the win.
 

Hostile

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TwoDeep3;3172318 said:
Just ask yourself this.

Fifty-four seconds left in that game and Staubach is the quarterback instead of Danny White.

A. Does Dallas lose?


B. Is anyone having a discussion on Landry, the defensive collapse, or even Montana being the best ever?

White completed a pass that got Dallas close enough that field goal range was twenty yards away.

White fumbled. Not Landry. Not the defense. Not the legend of Montana or greatness of Walsh and the 9ers.

So often people rewrite history about this game so the pet cats who failed are not liable.

Staubach wins that game regardless of Dwight Clark and Joe Montana.

Danny White did not.

Occam's razor applies here, boys. If all things else are equal, the simplest solution is usually correct.

White fumbled away the win.
I have felt for 28 years that the answer is no. I have never trusted anyone like I did Roger. Not when the game was on the line. He was a magician.
 

THUMPER

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TwoDeep3;3172318 said:
Just ask yourself this.

Fifty-four seconds left in that game and Staubach is the quarterback instead of Danny White.

A. Does Dallas lose?

B. Is anyone having a discussion on Landry, the defensive collapse, or even Montana being the best ever?

White completed a pass that got Dallas close enough that field goal range was twenty yards away.

White fumbled. Not Landry. Not the defense. Not the legend of Montana or greatness of Walsh and the 9ers.

So often people rewrite history about this game so the pet cats who failed are not liable.

Staubach wins that game regardless of Dwight Clark and Joe Montana.

Danny White did not.

Occam's razor applies here, boys. If all things else are equal, the simplest solution is usually correct.

White fumbled away the win.

Yep cause if Roger would have been in the game Drew Pearson wouldn't have been tackled. And of course just because Staubach was sacked a whole lot more often than Danny was, he wouldn't have been on that last play and we would have won the game. :rolleyes:

No one knows if we would have won that game with Staubach or not but blaming Danny White for that loss is ridiculous. :bang2:

BTW, Staubach lost a LOT of big games in his career so making a blanket statement that we would have won with him in is foolish.
 

bbgun

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THUMPER;3172341 said:
Yep cause if Roger would have been in the game Drew Pearson wouldn't have been tackled. And of course just because Staubach was sacked a whole lot more often than Danny was, he wouldn't have been on that last play and we would have won the game. :rolleyes:

No one knows if we would have won that game with Staubach or not but blaming Danny White for that loss is ridiculous. :bang2:

BTW, Staubach lost a LOT of big games in his career so making a blanket statement that we would have won with him in is foolish.

You beat me to it. Roger was in the exact same situation two years earlier in that divisional playoff game vs the Rams, except that he had the home crowd behind him and there was much more time on the clock. As in Frisco, all we had to do was get into FG position to steal the win, but it didn't happen. I love Roger to death, but not to the point of re-writing history or erasing his failures.
 

BlueBandit

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TwoDeep3;3172318 said:
Just ask yourself this.

Fifty-four seconds left in that game and Staubach is the quarterback instead of Danny White.

A. Does Dallas lose?

B. Is anyone having a discussion on Landry, the defensive collapse, or even Montana being the best ever?

White completed a pass that got Dallas close enough that field goal range was twenty yards away.

White fumbled. Not Landry. Not the defense. Not the legend of Montana or greatness of Walsh and the 9ers.

So often people rewrite history about this game so the pet cats who failed are not liable.

Staubach wins that game regardless of Dwight Clark and Joe Montana.

Danny White did not.

Occam's razor applies here, boys. If all things else are equal, the simplest solution is usually correct.

White fumbled away the win.
Drew Pearson was gone for a TD but tackled with one hand, a saving grab, Dwayne Board recovers fumble next play.
 

TwoDeep3

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BlueBandit;3172368 said:
Drew Pearson was gone for a TD but tackled with one hand, a saving grab, Dwayne Board recovers fumble next play.

Who fumbled? Some posters here seem to ignore that small detail.
 

Rampage

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[youtube]ocV5bGHdYag[/youtube]

people are debating who cost us a game almost 30 years ago????
 

Hostile

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Rampage;3172404 said:
people are debating who cost us a game almost 30 years ago????
The replay of that game was recently aired and people got to watch it. They are merely discussing their feelings about it.
 
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