Latest could mean more trouble for Vick

Big Dakota

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It was pretty much a given that Michael Vick was going to plead not guilty during Thursday's arraignment. But there were a few developments that weren't quite so clear cut.

Fortunately, FOXSports.com legal analyst Rob Becker was on hand to sort through it all for us.

What about today's proceedings particularly intrigued you?
The feds announced that they will be filing a superceding indictment in August. Since there was only one count in the original indictment, I would expect that there will be multiple counts added that could elaborate on the dogfighting and gambling aspects of the crime and, to make matters worse, there could be racketeering charges filed against Vick based on the gambling aspects of dogfighting.
The maximum sentence for racketeering is 20 years in prison, although if convicted it's unlikely Vick would serve anywhere near that amount

Why might the government hold back some charges and threaten to bring them later in a superceding indictment?
It's possible that they're hoping the threat of enhanced charges will increase their leverage on Vick to get him to come in and plea bargain to some or all of what he has already been charged with.
Does it surprise you that Vick was released without bond?
No. The only two issues that the judge is supposed to consider when deciding on whether there should be bond are one, is he a threat to the community? I think it's obvious that he isn't. And two, is he a "flight risk" — in other words, is there a possibility that if they let him go he will not show up for trial? Since Michael Vick has a face that everyone recognizes, there really is no possibility that he could become a fugitive, and if he did, he would destroy any remaining possibility he has of resuming his lucrative football career. So I think the judge showed common sense in determining that he was not a flight risk and that he should be released without bond.
One of the restrictions the judge did place on Vick was that he is not allowed to travel outside of his federal district. What implications, if any, does this have on his ability to resume his NFL career this season?
The judge's travel restriction places 49 states off limits to Michael Vick. This means that even in the unlikely event that NFL commissioner Goodell's investigation ends with a reinstatement of Vick to his team, he simply could not function as the quarterback of the Atlanta Falcons.
However, in that event I would expect his attorneys to go back in front of the judge and argue that he should be allowed to leave his state of residence solely for the purpose of playing in NFL games and earning his livelihood. And the same reasons why he was not given a bond — namely, that he is almost certain to show up in court — should be the reasons he is allowed to travel to NFL games
What did you think of Vick's statement today in which he professed his innocence?

Full text of Vick's statement
"Today in court I pleaded innocent to the allegations made against me. I take these charges very seriously and look forward to clearing my good name. I respectfully ask all of you to hold your judgment until all of the facts are shown. Above all I would like to say to my mom I'm sorry for what she has had to go through in this most trying of times. It has caused pain to my family and I apologize to my family. I also want to apologize to my Falcon teammates for not being with them at the beginning of spring training."


If you haven't pled guilty, the only rational thing to do is profess your innocence. So what he said today doesn't change my opinion of the case at all. In fact, it would have been a bit more convincing if the words had come out of Michael Vick's mouth rather than his attorney Billy Martin's.
So what comes next for Vick?
The judge scheduled the trial for Nov. 26. That date can often be put off. However, Vick has the misfortune of being prosecuted in the federal court in Virginia, which is so notorious for moving cases along quickly that it is known as the "rocket docket." Therefore, I would expect Vick's attorneys to move quickly to obtain from the government the evidence relating to the case, to the extent they can.
That's what I expect to see in public, but in private, I would bet there would be plea bargaining negotiations. And if Vick's defense team starts to see that the government's case against him really is as strong as the indictment makes it appear to be, then that will certainly increase the chances that there will be a plea bargain.
Realistically what interest would the government have in accepting a plea bargain from Vick?
When it comes to plea bargaining, Vick has a problem. Based on the indictment, he appears to have bankrolled the entire dogfighting operation, which began after he became a wealthy professional athlete.
It may well be accurate to say he was the leader of the operation. Thus, it's not as if he can offer up to the government a criminal who's further up the chain than he is.
This is unlike the situation facing NBA ref Tim Donaghy, who may well be able to offer up mob-connected bookies whom the government may be more interested in convicting.
Nevertheless, the two reasons why Vick may still be able to make a deal are: First, there would be a value to both sides if Vick is the first defendant to try and do a deal — the government would be more likely to accept such a deal than if he were the last defendant to seek a deal. Second, the government knows that if it has to actually try Vick, it will be going up against a high-powered defense team, including prominent D.C. attorney Billy Martin, whereas, if they do a deal with Vick and take the other three defendants to trial, they will not be facing anywhere near as well-financed a legal defense.
How would a plea bargain actually work? What could Vick plea down to in this case?
If he were convicted of everything in the indictment, he could get a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine (plus restitution), as opposed to the six years and $350,000 that has been widely reported. The reason he can't get more than the five years and $250,000 is because he's been charged with only one count that contains one conspiracy. I have personally confirmed the five-year, $250,000 maximum with the U.S. Attorney's office in Richmond, which is prosecuting the case.
That one conspiracy, according to the indictment, was to violate two different federal statutes. The two statutes he has been charged with conspiring to violate are 1) participating in dogfighting across state lines and 2) traveling across state lines for the purpose of gambling (this is known as violating the "Travel Act"). Oddly enough, he is not charged with actually violating the dogfighting statute or the Travel Act — he is only charged with a conspiracy to violate those two statutes.
If Vick is convicted of conspiring to violate the "Travel Act," then regardless of whether the government proves he also conspired to participate in dogfighting across state lines, the maximum penalty is the five years and $250,000, and under the federal sentencing guidelines, Vick, who has no previous convictions, would probably receive a sentence of between 10 and 16 months.
But if he is only convicted of conspiring to participate in dogfighting across state lines, the maximum he could get is one year in prison and a $100,000 fine. Under the guidelines, he might not get any prison time. However, the government raised the ante today by saying it would bring a superceding indictment in August. I would expect that indictment would include the actual violation of the dogfighting statute and the "Travel Act" that were not included in the original indictment. There is also the possibility that the government could charge him with racketeering, which would put even more pressure on his defense team to come to the table and do a deal.

So if I'm his attorney, what I want to do is move quickly to get the government to agree to let Vick plead guilty only to conspiring to participate in dogfighting across state lines and not to conspiring to violate the "Travel Act," because the maximum he could get would be a year and the reality of it would be he might not go to prison at all. If they wait until August, such a deal may no longer be available.
That would be a reasonable goal for a defense attorney here. Rob Becker is Fox Sports Net's legal analyst, a litigator in New York City, and a regular contributor to FOXSports.com.
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burmafrd

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This is interesting. If the Feds really thought Vick was the top guy, they would have hit him with everything in the first indictment. I do not buy the part about worrying about going up against a high powered attorney- this is the Federal Prosecuter, and in particular this guy does not scare easy. If his case is as strong as it appears, it will not matter how good Vicks attorneys are: there will be no circus like the OJ trial was- especially with THIS judge.
 

Big Dakota

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Vick's first court appearance: Double-barreled trouble


RICHMOND, Va. -- The hearings began eight minutes early and finished in less than 25 minutes -- Michael Vick's first taste of the famed "rocket docket" in Richmond, Va. -- and they brought Vick some bad news.
With a team of five lawyers at his side, Vick learned that more charges probably will be added to the array of gruesome federal dogfighting allegations already filed against him. Too, he was told that his two-week jury trial will begin at 9:30 on the morning of Nov. 26.
"That's 9:30 sharp," U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson said, making it clear there will be no unnecessary postponements.
The worse of those two news items for Vick came from Asst. U.S. Attorney Michael Gill, who told Hudson that the federal government will be filing a "superceding indictment" by the end of next month. Although legal experts can disagree on what might come in the new indictment, the federal prosecutors in Richmond typically add charges in superceding indictments. It is unlikely they will eliminate charges.
The message from the government prosecutors to Vick and his three co-defendants (Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips, and Tony Taylor) was not subtle. Here's the message: We've already charged you with serious crimes. You might want to consider a guilty plea. We are going to file more charges next month. That gives you a few weeks to think about the guilty plea. If you come and talk to us about pleading guilty and testifying for us, there will be no more charges against you. If you do not, the charges and the potential punishment will grow quickly.

Vick trial: Nov. 26

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Michael Vick was jeered as he came into court, where he pleaded not guilty Thursday. He later said in a statement: "I take these charges very seriously and look forward to clearing my good name." Story


Although Vick is unlikely to respond to the pressure in that message, it is possible that one or two of the others could seek a lesser jail sentence, or no jail at all, in return for testifying against Vick.
Each of the other three defendants -- all of whom, like Vick, also pleaded not guilty and were released on bond and given the same trial date as Vick on Thursday -- has retained private counsel separate from Vick's legal team. None of them will use a public defender.
The government's revelation of the possibility of additional charges came in the second of two rapid-fire, staccato hearings conducted at the tempo of a top-of-the line marching band. U.S. Magistrate Judge Demmos Dohnal ran through the federal bail litany in what must have been record time, ordering Vick to give up his licenses for a dog kennel and for the breeding of dogs. Dohnal then released him. Less than five seconds after Dohnal had finished, Hudson walked in and continued the breakneck pace.
If anyone had any doubt that Vick's celebrity might change the court's usual pace, Hudson cleared it up quickly. Lawrence Woodward, one of Vick's lawyers, argued that a speedy trial is not possible under the Richmond rules. There is no way, Woodward said, to be ready for trial on Oct. 4, which is what the rules require. He described the complexity of the charges, the need for forensic analysis of some of the dead dogs, and the multi-state nature of the charges.
Hudson listened and ruled instantly, as he did on every other issue during the hearing.
"Yes," Hudson said, "I will treat this case as complex litigation."
And then he set it for trial on Nov. 26, about eight weeks later than the date required by normal docket rules. Woodward and the rest of Vick's legal team likely were hoping for an eight-month delay rather than an eight-week delay. It was apparent that Hudson is serious about the November date.
Vick and the Atlanta Falcons now know what the quarterback will be doing this fall.
Hudson laid out a schedule for the pre-trial skirmishing that is always a part of a major federal conspiracy prosecution. Vick's lawyers might have an advantage in the speedy pre-trial procedures in that they come equipped with money and staff, so it is likely they'll be able to outwork federal prosecutors who must tend to other cases and won't be able to focus solely on Vick.
In another sign of the quick-step culture of the Richmond courthouse, Hudson told the lawyers he will select a jury in "a half a day." With enormous media coverage expected, coupled with the severity of the charges described in the indictment, two veteran Richmond defense lawyers -- both of whom have histories with Hudson -- thought it would take as much as a week to find 12 jurors who haven't already made up their minds on Vick.
"If Judge Hudson says a half a day, then it will be a half a day," one of them observed after the hearings.
Lester Munson, a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years, is a Senior Writer for ESPN.com.
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MichaelWinicki

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"Racketeering" --- Ouch!

Even if they don't nail Vick on one thing they'll nail him on another.
 

Facin'Fools

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If they do another remake of The Longest Yard, Vick will be a shoe in as a reciever....cant wait
 

Hostile

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Spring training? Mike, this isn't baseball. It's Training Camp.
 

AbeBeta

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burmafrd;1564936 said:
This is interesting. If the Feds really thought Vick was the top guy, they would have hit him with everything in the first indictment. I do not buy the part about worrying about going up against a high powered attorney- this is the Federal Prosecuter, and in particular this guy does not scare easy. If his case is as strong as it appears, it will not matter how good Vicks attorneys are: there will be no circus like the OJ trial was- especially with THIS judge.

Actually, I think that the # of charges in the original indictment is irrelevant -- there was a ton of pressure to get the ball rolling on this -- the feds likely focused on a single charge so they could file sooner -- the other stuff may take longer to put together.
 

WV Cowboy

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Hostile;1564953 said:
Spring training? Mike, this isn't baseball. It's Training Camp.

:lmao2: :lmao: :laugh2:

Nobody claimed Vick was the sharpest tool in the shed !
 

DallasEast

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Bob Becker;1564930 said:
Does it surprise you that Vick was released without bond?
No. The only two issues that the judge is supposed to consider when deciding on whether there should be bond are one, is he a threat to the community? I think it's obvious that he isn't.
Well, sure, he's not a danger for people, but what about dogs, man? What about the dogs??? :nervous:
 

cobra

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I don't know how this guy missed this when he analyzed the indictment.

I explained this to all of you when the initial indictment came out and told y'all that there would be further counts of indictment. I also explained why this would end up a RICO case as well. Y'all are getting this valuable stuff for free from me. I should be charging FOX for my services.

So, feel free to PM to get my address at which you can begin to shower gifts of thanks upon me.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Best thing this fool can do is just plead guilty right now to conspiracy. I think BD is right. If he waits, and I hope he does, he's going away for a long time.
 

burmafrd

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Nov 26 is 123 days from now. Thats more then enough time to get ready for a trial with all the money Vick has to pay for attorneys. Its not as if they were not making preparations already.
 

5Stars

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cobra;1565000 said:
I don't know how this guy missed this when he analyzed the indictment.

I explained this to all of you when the initial indictment came out and told y'all that there would be further counts of indictment. I also explained why this would end up a RICO case as well. Y'all are getting this valuable stuff for free from me. I should be charging FOX for my services.

So, feel free to PM to get my address at which you can begin to shower gifts of thanks upon me.


:bow: :bow: :bow:
 

DallasEast

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cobra;1565000 said:
I don't know how this guy missed this when he analyzed the indictment.

I explained this to all of you when the initial indictment came out and told y'all that there would be further counts of indictment. I also explained why this would end up a RICO case as well. Y'all are getting this valuable stuff for free from me. I should be charging FOX for my services.

So, feel free to PM to get my address at which you can begin to shower gifts of thanks upon me.
Indeed. Props! :bow: Do you take Visa or Mastercard? :D
 

burmafrd

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You do not SOUND like a lawyer. At least not like most of the so called lawyers we have posting here. So do you have any law school type training.
 

hank2k

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if I'm his attorney, what I want to do is move quickly to get the government to agree to let Vick plead guilty only to conspiring to participate in dogfighting across state lines and not to conspiring to violate the "Travel Act," because the maximum he could get would be a year and the reality of it would be he might not go to prison at all. If they wait until August, such a deal may no longer be available.


Cop a plea to avoid more charges ...no jail time...a league suspension for what 8 games? Love how so many assume his career/ life is over because of this.
 

burmafrd

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If he pleads guilty to even one charge he is going to get a whole season suspension. As much heat as there has been Goodell won't have much of a choice.
 

BARRYRAY

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Listen, ignore how the media ala Nancy Gray has convicted this guy, make no mistake because of federal minimum sentencing guideleines, IE if you plead guilty you get at least x amount of jail time, there will be no plea here and he will not be convicted in my opinion, it always works this way the worse the case the more they try to fry him in the press from the get go, the only thing they have on this guy is that he owned the house, the"paper trail" they kept talking about doesn't exist, he probably was never there, and it was all a cash business, the witnesses will have a rap sheet a mile long, just wait, I know this guy is a sleaze, but man anyone who doesn't think there is a dual system of justice in this country is naive, he'll walk you just wait, $25 million a year will buy you some lawyers....
 

cobra

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burmafrd;1565068 said:
You do not SOUND like a lawyer. At least not like most of the so called lawyers we have posting here. So do you have any law school type training.

Was this directed at me? If so, then yeah, I'm a lawyer in Dallas which necessarily means I graduated from law school.

Thank you for saying I don't sound like a lawyer. That makes my day. One of the most difficult skills for litigators is to learn to not sound like a lawyer and to explain things in simple terms.
 
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