Lawrence - Not So Much

[gjkoeppen]

First off, I think we give these people too much credit for being a great deal smarter that they are just because they do what they do.

The other mistake they make and it's not just the Cowboys, they focus on the player too much and not the team he was on. The Cowboys weren't the only team to have Claiborne up that high but they failed to take a hard look at all around him. Same with Spears, the DL he was on at LSU was better then the one he was drafted to be on with the Cowboys.

They never know which players are really the stand outs. Auburn and Clemson have had DL's that were considered can't miss and half those guys are disappointments. They were the definition of football synergy.

I think CB's are the highest risk and Belichick would agree with all his misses. How can they know if a CB is going to be anything close to what he was in college when he's facing QB's and WR's every week better than what they faced most of the season in college. That same challenge, college open v NFL open, that plagues many QB's and WR's when they come into the NFL affects the CB's.

I was really surprised at how well Burrow and Herbert played in their rookie seasons. Burrow threw to textbook college open receivers in his senior season and that was really his only shining season. Now, we've got Mac Jones in that same situation.

Wow I actually agree with something you said.
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[Direwolf63]

I'm getting tired of repeating this. The Heisman is not the end all be all gauge on how a player does in the NFL. It is the highest award for college football and with all the talk and proclamations that people have made on Lawrence one would think he then had a total and complete lock on winning it, buy he didn't. Also see comment #85.
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You are the one who made the connection.
Winning the Heisman does not mean you are going to be a great pro.
Losing the Heisman does not mean you will not be a great pro.

There is no connection between the 2

 

[Sydla]

Why bring up Prescott when he didn't?
Why suggest anyone said he was the "best ever" when no one did?

Because that's the underlying issue here. He's criticizing Lawrence because some suggested the Cowboys should tank for Lawrence and get rid of Dak.

I never figured you were this naive.

 

[Sydla]

Wait what? You think I am in the "dak is the best thing ever" crowd? What an idiot!

IS the "Tank for Trevor Lawrence" crowd SO insecure the insult another forum member for a valid opinion?

SO now a little rivalry comment about an opposing player that CHOKED.....is an "insult to college prospects". Good GOD. Thin skin sheesh.

You said he was exposed based on one game. It was a weird comment.

And for the record, I never wanted to tank for Lawrence.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't know how many times I have to say that there can be busts in any round with any position. If any team actually thought a player was going to be a bust they wouldn't draft them. Many of those busts were highly praised coming out of college. Now think about the NFL teams that have tried the run and gun college type offense and still had losing records. Oh BTW there hasn't been a winning Super Bowl team in 20 years or longer that didn't have a top 10 ranked defense. Even the chiefs in 2019 had the 10th ranked defense.
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Defensive ranking is meaningless.

We should've learned that in the Mike Zimmer days when we had a #1 defense or a top ranked defense and yet any time a team needed to they could go right down the field and score on us.

Regardless.. It's an offensive league.

So even if you build a defense you'll be lucky if it's top quality for any longer than a year.

Is it important? Of course. It's just not reliable.


Coaching, defense, and QB's outplaying their contract win Superbowls. You need 2 of those 3 things.

Do we even have 1?

Coaching? Mediocre at best.

Defense? Horrible.

QB outplaying contract? We had that. We're about to get ripped off.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The OP is right, I mean Gino Toretta lit up the NFL record books after taking the Heisman home.

 

[blueblood70]

With all the talk earlier in the season that the Cowboys should tank to possibly get a crack at Lawrence and all the talk about Lawrence going to be the next great QB, yet with so many people trying to make all their proclamations about Lawrence you would think he would have been an automatic lock for and gotten college football biggest award, the Heisman Trophy. But he didn't. As always, I'll wait and see what a player does in the NFL before making any proclamations.

well first off the Heisman is not an indicator of great pro , we wont know if TL or Devontae will be good, great, elite. or a bust..theres no guarantee..

many have failed

this was strange though i know this Al WR was great but last year Burrows gets it while his WR has as good or better numbers then Devontae Jamarr Chase i believe his name was had an incredible year yet his qb gets it .. so Al QB doesnt.. voters vote we move on..

 

[gjkoeppen]

You are the one who made the connection.
Winning the Heisman does not mean you are going to be a great pro.
Losing the Heisman does not mean you will not be a great pro.

There is no connection between the 2

Again I've never said a player who didn't win the Heisman can't be good. I'm tired of repeating the same things over and over.
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[gjkoeppen]

Defensive ranking is meaningless.

We should've learned that in the Mike Zimmer days when we had a #1 defense or a top ranked defense and yet any time a team needed to they could go right down the field and score on us.

Regardless.. It's an offensive league.

So even if you build a defense you'll be lucky if it's top quality for any longer than a year.

Is it important? Of course. It's just not reliable.


Coaching, defense, and QB's outplaying their contract win Superbowls. You need 2 of those 3 things.

Do we even have 1?

Coaching? Mediocre at best.

Defense? Horrible.

QB outplaying contract? We had that. We're about to get ripped off.

Gee when Zimmer was the Cowboys DC the Cowboys went to the NFC championship game and lost that game by spotting the 49ers a quick 14 points off turnovers to start the game. I'm tired of this back and forth with you. If you want to think the NFL has now turned into arena football with no defense go ahead. Think what you want but you'll NEVER convince me that you're right. Don't reply because I'll just ignore it.
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[gjkoeppen]

well first off the Heisman is not an indicator of great pro , we wont know if TL or Devontae will be good, great, elite. or a bust..theres no guarantee..

many have failed

this was strange though i know this Al WR was great but last year Burrows gets it while his WR has as good or better numbers then Devontae Jamarr Chase i believe his name was had an incredible year yet his qb gets it .. so Al QB doesnt.. voters vote we move on..

I'm so tired of this. Go look at comment #85.
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[jjktkk]

I think he could be a serviceable QB. But the next super star QB? Nope. And the team he goes to...will stink. Not a good formula see Joe Burrow.

The projected #1, overall pick in the 2021 draft, by most NFL draft experts, who has elite physical traits for an NFL QB, is just a "serviceable QB? Did the dog eat your homework?

The 2019 Championship was a fluke. HE didn't run great until the refs ejected Wade. And one bad route by the Ohio State receiver GAVE the win to Lawrence..

So when Lawrence did win a national championship, it was a "fluke"? Wow, this explains your "serviceable QB" theory.

 

[dfense]

Never saw Lawrence play before last week. I noticed his mechanics weren't so good. Throws alot off his back foot. Maybe it was the rush, but he looked like he didn't want to stand and take a hit.

 

[blueblood70]

I'm so tired of this. Go look at comment #85.
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Im not going to read 5 pages of content and 100s of others responses to make you less tired..i responded to your OP..thats my reply dont start threads and not expect redundant responses..

sign out, take break if yo are tired LOL its been frustrating and long season..

 

[EST_1986]

So what corner back were you referring to?
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Charles Woodson

 

[EST_1986]

A CB that went to on to play 18 seasons in the NFL, and has just been selected as a finalist for the Pro Football of Fame class of 2021.

Yea but Peyton was supposed to be the next best thing so he should have won the Heisman plus he had a bad game in college so naturally he failed in the NFL

 

[blueblood70]

There have been people saying all month that Lawrence is the best player in college football but you can't give him the Heisman.

Winning the Heisman has nothing to do with NFL potential.

You draft players based on potential.

Lawrence ceiling is sky high. He has all the talent in the world and he's put a lot of rare things on display for 3 seasons.

yups and what team he ends up on and what they put around him including coaches matter..

 

[atlantacowboy]

It probably doesn't but that puts them a heck of a lot closer to half of them than 3.
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Also notice they are all QBs. But, putting aside the status of #1 overall pick, most Heisman Trophy winners since 2000 are NFL busts.

QB Heisman Trophy winners over the last two decades (since 2000)
Chris Weinke
Jason White
Matt Leinart
Troy Smith
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Robert Griffin III
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota

Exactly. The Heisman has nothing to do with pro potential.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Never saw Lawrence play before last week. I noticed his mechanics weren't so good. Throws alot off his back foot. Maybe it was the rush, but he looked like he didn't want to stand and take a hit.

Been watching the kid for 3 years. That was one of the worst games he's ever played.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Im not going to read 5 pages of content and 100s of others responses to make you less tired..i responded to your OP..thats my reply dont start threads and not expect redundant responses..

sign out, take break if yo are tired LOL its been frustrating and long season..

I have no problem repeating things 2 or 3 times but when I've repeated them 10 times that's more than what anyone should have to.
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[CalPolyTechnique]

Again I've never said a player who didn't win the Heisman can't be good. I'm tired of repeating the same things over and over.

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You don’t have to.

That’s the logical inverse of the claim you’re making.