Leodis McKelvin

[JonJon]

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2008-senior-bowl-leodis-mckelvin-interview/1378344914

Apparently, he brace on the ball real goods.

Wow and this guy made it through college? I think I just got dumber listening to that. He is kinda small.... I hope he doesn't brace something....

 

[carphalen5150]

I would of taken Jenkins, Flowers, McKelvin, DRC, and Talib over Cason. No way way he the top CB in this draft. If we had taken Jones and Devin Thomas then I would of been fine with Cason at 61, but him going in the first was a reach.

 

[theogt]

I would of taken Jenkins, Flowers, McKelvin, DRC, and Talib over Cason. No way way he the top CB in this draft. If we had taken Jones and Devin Thomas then I would of been fine with Cason at 61, but him going in the first was a reach.

Any reason why you think this? Or is it just purely irrational blabbering?

 

[TheCount]

I would of taken Jenkins, Flowers, McKelvin, DRC, and Talib over Cason. No way way he the top CB in this draft. If we had taken Jones and Devin Thomas then I would of been fine with Cason at 61, but him going in the first was a reach.

Actually, it wasn't. He was towards the bottom of the top teir CB's, and that's where he was taken. I would assume he didn't win the award for being the best CB in the nation because he was horrible.

Devin Thomas in the 1st however, WOULD have been a reach, as proven in the draft. The only reason he was considered a 1st round WR by most is because the class was weak, apparently the scouts, coaches and managers didn't agree.

The fact that some had him going as high as 11 to the Bills was laughable.

 

[RealCowboyfan]

if he had been available at pick 22 or 25, would you have taken him over Felix Jones or Mike Jenkins?

I had Mike Jenkins rated as the number 1 conerback in the draft. I believe the Cowboys still build their secondary next year also with the likes of Malcolm Jenkins , CB, Ohio State or going after a big-time wide receiver in the draft (i.e. Crabtree from texas tech, he's huge and have great numbers).

 

[carphalen5150]

Actually, it wasn't. He was towards the bottom of the top teir CB's, and that's where he was taken. I would assume he didn't win the award for being the best CB in the nation because he was horrible.

Devin Thomas in the 1st however, WOULD have been a reach, as proven in the draft. The only reason he was considered a 1st round WR by most is because the class was weak, apparently the scouts, coaches and managers didn't agree.

The fact that some had him going as high as 11 to the Bills was laughable.

He won the best CB in the nation award...fantastic, but where in my post did I say he was horrible? I don't share the same view as you in terms of where you had him ranked...as the #1 CB in this draft. I viewed it as a reach in the 1st...he was a 2nd rounder IMO. He is a cover 2 guy anyways and that does not work here.

I see you focused in on the wrong part of the post though...replace Thomas with another name if you like, I just threw a name in there.

 

[carphalen5150]

Any reason why you think this? Or is it just purely irrational blabbering?

Irrational blabbering? I don't see how not having Cason rated as the #1 CB is irrational blabbering. I guess because I don't share the same evaluation of the player as you then it is irrational.

He was the 5th best CB in the draft and is better suited to play cover 2. That is why I think that. Completely rational and quite secure in those thoughts.

 

[AdamJT13]

Actual coverage metrics tend to be a better gauge in my opinion.

I explained the problem with those college "metrics" a few weeks ago.

For some DBs, only the passes caught by the "main coverage assignment" (one particular player) are included in the "metrics." For other DBs, the metrics include those passes plus any passes caught by other players in their area. So unless some guys never covered more than one particular player every single game, there's a flaw in the metrics.

 

[starfrombirth]

At 22, probably not. The corner group was so deep this year that a good one was going to be available at 25 or lower, but Jones was kind a unique fit for what the offense needed. And if McKelvin would have been available at 25, it likely would only have been because Jenkins went sooner anyway. I think most pundits were a little surprised that Jenkins lasted until 25. That said, since Jenkins is a little bigger than McKelvin, and the NFC East looks to be loading up on bigger wideouts, I'd probably lean toward Jenkins anyway. I like having a corner who's big enough to slide over to free safety when he begins to slow down a bit. Again, like Jones, maybe a slightly better fit for what Dallas needs.

Remember, two of the faster players on our team are safeties (Watkins and Brown) both run under 4.4

 

[YosemiteSam]

No, he was my 5th or 6th rated corner.

I didn't have him that low. I had him as the most NFL ready, but I also had him not having as much upside as many of the other CBs.

 

[TheCount]

He won the best CB in the nation award...fantastic, but where in my post did I say he was horrible? I don't share the same view as you in terms of where you had him ranked...as the #1 CB in this draft. I viewed it as a reach in the 1st...he was a 2nd rounder IMO. He is a cover 2 guy anyways and that does not work here.

I see you focused in on the wrong part of the post though...replace Thomas with another name if you like, I just threw a name in there.

I never said he was the #1 CB in the draft, as a matter of fact, in the post you just quoted, I said he was the bottom of the top tier of CB's.

You're saying taking one of the top CB's in the nation at the bottom of the first round was a reach, and I think you're wrong.

 

[BuckyG]

Remember, two of the faster players on our team are safeties (Watkins and Brown) both run under 4.4

Watkins ran 4.44/4.51 at the 2006 combines, and I'm a little leery to credit faster times from other workouts, which are usually hand-timed and not particularly accurate. For his size (6-5, 208), though, Watkins is very fast, and should make a good two-position backup safety over the next few years.

 

[theogt]

I explained the problem with those college "metrics" a few weeks ago.

For some DBs, only the passes caught by the "main coverage assignment" (one particular player) are included in the "metrics." For other DBs, the metrics include those passes plus any passes caught by other players in their area. So unless some guys never covered more than one particular player every single game, there's a flaw in the metrics.

Which metrics are you referring to? The metrics I've used are gathered by NFLDraftScout (The SportsXchange). I'm not sure of their methodology, but I imagine is sufficiently similar on each player that meaningful comparisons can be made.

 

[theogt]

Irrational blabbering? I don't see how not having Cason rated as the #1 CB is irrational blabbering. I guess because I don't share the same evaluation of the player as you then it is irrational.

He was the 5th best CB in the draft and is better suited to play cover 2. That is why I think that. Completely rational and quite secure in those thoughts.

So your only "reason" is that he's "better suited to play cover 2," yet you don't have any explanation as to why that is?

That's irrational if you ask me.

 

[Fletch]

if he had been available at pick 22 or 25, would you have taken him over Felix Jones or Mike Jenkins?

Nope. The competition that he played against was not all that great. Mike Jenkins was the first CB on my board. I had Jenkins going to the Cowboys at #22, then a RB.

Either way, we got our guy!

 

[AdamJT13]

Which metrics are you referring to? The metrics I've used are gathered by NFLDraftScout (The SportsXchange). I'm not sure of their methodology, but I imagine is sufficiently similar on each player that meaningful comparisons can be made.

Yes, those are the ones I'm talking about. And the methodology is not the same for every player.

McKelvin is listed as allowing a total of 34 catches for 407 yards. Of those, no more than 13 catches and 133 yards were by his "main coverage assignment." At least 21 catches and 274 yards were by players in his territory other than those listed as his "main coverage assignment."

Antoine Cason is listed as allowing a total of 23 catches for 258 yards. Of those, every catch and every yard was by his "main coverage assignment." In addition, the players listed as his "main coverage assignment" caught at least another 18 passes for 168 yards when Cason wasn't covering them, which tells us that Cason often covered someone other than his "main coverage assignment". So unless Arizona's opponents never even attempted a pass against Cason except when he was covering his "main coverage assignment" each game, there are stats missing from his "metrics."

There are numerous other cornerbacks who also don't have anything listed other than those by their "main coverage assignment" each game -- including Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Antoine Cason, Brandon Flowers, Terrell Thomas, Terrence Wheatley and Trae Williams. Is it possible that every one of them spent a good portion of their time covering someone other than their "main" assignment each game but NEVER were thrown at when doing so? That seems unlikely, given than players such as Mike Jenkins, Aqib Talib, Tracy Porter, Charles Godfrey and DeJuan Tribble allowed a significant number of catches -- sometimes even the majority -- when they weren't covering their "main assignment."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

response?

 

[theogt]

Yes, those are the ones I'm talking about. And the methodology is not the same for every player.

McKelvin is listed as allowing a total of 34 catches for 407 yards. Of those, no more than 13 catches and 133 yards were by his "main coverage assignment." At least 21 catches and 274 yards were by players in his territory other than those listed as his "main coverage assignment."

Antoine Cason is listed as allowing a total of 23 catches for 258 yards. Of those, every catch and every yard was by his "main coverage assignment." In addition, the players listed as his "main coverage assignment" caught at least another 18 passes for 168 yards when Cason wasn't covering them, which tells us that Cason often covered someone other than his "main coverage assignment". So unless Arizona's opponents never even attempted a pass against Cason except when he was covering his "main coverage assignment" each game, there are stats missing from his "metrics."

There are numerous other cornerbacks who also don't have anything listed other than those by their "main coverage assignment" each game -- including Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Antoine Cason, Brandon Flowers, Terrell Thomas, Terrence Wheatley and Trae Williams. Is it possible that every one of them spent a good portion of their time covering someone other than their "main" assignment each game but NEVER were thrown at when doing so? That seems unlikely, given than players such as Mike Jenkins, Aqib Talib, Tracy Porter, Charles Godfrey and DeJuan Tribble allowed a significant number of catches -- sometimes even the majority -- when they weren't covering their "main assignment."

Nice catch. I rarely looked beyond the main bio, which contains substantially similar language for every player.

Example:
Cason - "Of the 73 passes targeted to his area, the opposition caught 23 for 258 yards"
McKelvin - "Had 70 passes targeted into his territory, as the opposition caught 34 of those tosses"

But obviously when you go into the game by game breakdowns you can see the discrepancy you point out between "main assignment" and "territory." I'll have to e-mail them about that later on.

 

[TheCount]

Nice catch. I rarely looked beyond the main bio, which contains substantially similar language for every player.

Example:
Cason - "Of the 73 passes targeted to his area, the opposition caught 23 for 258 yards"
McKelvin - "Had 70 passes targeted into his territory, as the opposition caught 34 of those tosses"

But obviously when you go into the game by game breakdowns you can see the discrepancy you point out between "main assignment" and "territory." I'll have to e-mail them about that later on.

Theo's world just crumbled.

You gonna go back and apologize to the people you used those numbers on, while calling them idiots, before the draft? :laugh2:

 

[YosemiteSam]

Nice catch. I rarely looked beyond the main bio, which contains substantially similar language for every player.

Example:
Cason - "Of the 73 passes targeted to his area, the opposition caught 23 for 258 yards"
McKelvin - "Had 70 passes targeted into his territory, as the opposition caught 34 of those tosses"

But obviously when you go into the game by game breakdowns you can see the discrepancy you point out between "main assignment" and "territory." I'll have to e-mail them about that later on.

It matters who they are playing against also.