Lets draft Brady Quinn

[ThreeSportStar80]

I flipped out when we didn't draft him, it was an obvious chance to get an elite running back, instead we traded down to get Julius Jones.

The only redeeming value is that trade turned into DeMarcus Ware.

End of discussion right there... Future H.O.F. OLB!

 

[burmafrd]

In Dec 2004 the debate was about when to pick Spears. BP and Jerruh both agreed that they needed two players if the switch to 3-4 was going to work. THey needed at least one real 3-4 DE and a pass rushing OLB. At that time it was thought that Spears would be at least a top 15 pick and that Merriman would be a top 10 pick. THe question was whether to use our higher pick for Spears or the OLB, and the thinking then was that Ware would be available later. Then came the combine and Ware tore it up. Just absolutely owned it. He went from a late first rd pick to right near the top 10. Jerruh and BP agreed that there were no other really good looking OLB rushers that were anywhere near those two. So the move had to be to use the top pick on the OLB, and try and get Spears at 20. From there the debate moved to choosing between Ware and Merriman, and the more they looked the more they liked Ware.

 

[skinsscalper]

So, in your world, Parcells OK'd every personnel move and draft pick, but the one first rounder he wanted, Jerry overruled him. Every single move but one.

OK.

Oh, and Parcells agreed to bring George and TO in. Nice revisionism.

Try to keep up if you're going to jump into an argument that already ended. Otherwise you look like an idiot. To that end: Mission accomplished.


Parcells hoped he could get something out of George. He co-signed on the idea. If you think for a minute he WANTED Owens here, you're kidding yourself.

Jerry wanted Ware. He got Ware. He would have gotten him no matter what. In my world Jerry calls the shots. Always has. I'm not sure what alternate universe you live in, and quite frankly, I don't give a ****. But, in the real world (the one I choose to reside in) Jerry always has been the GM. Any argument against it is beyond stupid. What IS true is that Jerry gave more of a voice to Bill than any other coach he's ever worked with is reference to talent acquisition (sans Jimmy Johnson). That's absolutely undeniable. What Parcells WASN'T, was the GM. I don't care how you spin it it never has been and never will be true.

Like I told the other poster: Thanks for playin'.

Now go jump into an argument that you might have a chance at looking atleast somewhat intellectually up to the challenge of.

 

[dbair1967]

Try to keep up if you're going to jump into an argument that already ended. Otherwise you look like an idiot. To that end: Mission accomplished.


Parcells hoped he could get something out of George. He co-signed on the idea. If you think for a minute he WANTED Owens here, you're kidding yourself.

Jerry wanted Ware. He got Ware. He would have gotten him no matter what. In my world Jerry calls the shots. Always has. I'm not sure what alternate universe you live in, and quite frankly, I don't give a ****. But, in the real world (the one I choose to reside in) Jerry always has been the GM. Any argument against it is beyond stupid. What IS true is that Jerry gave more of a voice to Bill than any other coach he's ever worked with is reference to talent acquisition (sans Jimmy Johnson). That's absolutely undeniable. What Parcells WASN'T, was the GM. I don't care how you spin it it never has been and never will be true.

Like I told the other poster: Thanks for playin'.

Now go jump into an argument that you might have a chance at looking atleast somewhat intellectually up to the challenge of.

Seriously dude, just stop. You are no more informed on this than anyone else is.

Parcells walked out on New England because he wanted control. He got it in NY. He retired and came back. He wouldnt have come here if he didnt get the control he wanted.

If Jones wanted to do soemthing, he asked Parcells if that was ok. If Parcells wanted something, he just told Jerry to do it.

 

[Yeagermeister]

If we had drafted Stephen Jackson everyone here would ***** about him being hurt so much and call for him to be benched in favor for whoever ever is his backup.

 

[dbair1967]

If we had drafted Stephen Jackson everyone here would ***** about him being hurt so much and call for him to be benched in favor for whoever ever is his backup.

"injury plagued!!!!!!!!"

 

[skinsscalper]

Seriously dude, just stop. You are no more informed on this than anyone else is.

Parcells walked out on New England because he wanted control. He got it in NY. He retired and came back. He wouldnt have come here if he didnt get the control he wanted.

If Jones wanted to do soemthing, he asked Parcells if that was ok. If Parcells wanted something, he just told Jerry to do it.

I'm more informed than you if you truly believe Parcells was the GM. It's that simple, dude.

I've conceded that Jerry gave Parcells more of a say in talent acquisition than any other coach (other than Jimmy). That's never been an argument, on my part.That doesn't make Parcells the GM. No matter how you slice it, guy. It's purely that simple.

And for the record Jones has never been TOLD to do anything related to the Cowboys. He respected Parcells input in regards to talent evaluation and USUALLLY followed Bill's lead, in that regard. And, if you truly believe that Jerry Jones sincerely ASKED Bill Parcells if he could sign T.O. to the team that he OWNS, you're kidding yourself. The media was all over the "Jerry signed T.O. against Bill's wishes" angle. The only way for Parcells to keep the whole thing from being blown WAAAAY out of proportion was to publicly sign off on the move. Even if he didn't like it. He knew the presence of T.O. was going to be circus enough. He did what any smart coach would do when a player is forced on him. He made the best of a situation that he didn't like for the sake of trying to head off any more of a circus-like atmosphere that was already inevitable. You can tell that he wasn't fond of the idea by the ways he spoke of T.O. in his press conferences. ONE TIME when facing the media he called Owens by his actual name. NOT ONE OTHER PLAYER in Bill's tenure was treated with such indifference. NOT ONE! Never would an actual GM hold so much contempt FOR HIS OWN ACQUISITION unless the guy was a complete bust. Now, you still think you got a winner with the "Bill was the GM" line? Bill worked in tandem with Jerry Jones. Never did he hold the power of veto. That power has always gone to the GM. That guy happens to be Jerry Jones. Has been since 1989.

When you stop with the idea that Bill was the be all end all, I'll stop reminding you how stupid that notion truly is. Deal? Thanks.

 

[dbair1967]

I'm more informed than you if you truly believe Parcells was the GM. It's that simple, dude.

I've conceded that Jerry gave Parcells more of a say in talent acquisition than any other coach (other than Jimmy). That's never been an argument, on my part.That doesn't make Parcells the GM. No matter how you slice it, guy. It's purely that simple.

And for the record Jones has never been TOLD to do anything related to the Cowboys. He respected Parcells input in regards to talent evaluation and USUALLLY followed Bill's lead, in that regard. And, if you truly believe that Jerry Jones sincerely ASKED Bill Parcells if he could sign T.O. to the team that he OWNS, you're kidding yourself. The media was all over the "Jerry signed T.O. against Bill's wishes" angle. The only way for Parcells to keep the whole thing from being blown WAAAAY out of proportion was to publicly sign off on the move. Even if he didn't like it. He knew the presence of T.O. was going to be circus enough. He did what any smart coach would do when a player is forced on him. He made the best of a situation that he didn't like for the sake of trying to head off any more of a circus-like atmosphere that was already inevitable. You can tell that he wasn't fond of the idea by the ways he spoke of T.O. in his press conferences. ONE TIME when facing the media he called Owens by his actual name. NOT ONE OTHER PLAYER in Bill's tenure was treated with such indifference. NOT ONE! Never would an actual GM hold so much contempt FOR HIS OWN ACQUISITION unless the guy was a complete bust. Now, you still think you got a winner with the "Bill was the GM" line? Bill worked in tandem with Jerry Jones. Never did he hold the power of veto. That power has always gone to the GM. That guy happens to be Jerry Jones. Has been since 1989.

When you stop with the idea that Bill was the be all end all, I'll stop reminding you how stupid that notion truly is. Deal? Thanks.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think there's far too much evidence that points to Parcells doing everything personnel wise here as opposed to him just having a voice.

And your rant on the Owens thing is never going to get around the fact that both Jerry and Stephen have both publicly stated they ASKED Parcells multiple times whether he was ok with signing Owens, and that if he had any objections they would have went the other way. Parcells has never said anything to contradict it either.

If Parcells wasnt ok with Owens being on the team, he wouldnt have been on the team.

 

[richzre]

Thats fine if you want to believe it, but Parcells made every personnel decision on this team while he was here. He was the real GM. Jones was GM in name only.

Jerry, as long as he owns this team will be the ultimate decision maker. His favorite saying is "The buck stops here".

 

[DeaconBlues]

Try to keep up if you're going to jump into an argument that already ended. Otherwise you look like an idiot. To that end: Mission accomplished.


Parcells hoped he could get something out of George. He co-signed on the idea. If you think for a minute he WANTED Owens here, you're kidding yourself.

Jerry wanted Ware. He got Ware. He would have gotten him no matter what. In my world Jerry calls the shots. Always has. I'm not sure what alternate universe you live in, and quite frankly, I don't give a ****. But, in the real world (the one I choose to reside in) Jerry always has been the GM. Any argument against it is beyond stupid. What IS true is that Jerry gave more of a voice to Bill than any other coach he's ever worked with is reference to talent acquisition (sans Jimmy Johnson). That's absolutely undeniable. What Parcells WASN'T, was the GM. I don't care how you spin it it never has been and never will be true.

Like I told the other poster: Thanks for playin'.

Now go jump into an argument that you might have a chance at looking atleast somewhat intellectually up to the challenge of.

Ah. So, in other words, you agree with everything I said, other than arguing with the GM job title.

So who says you can't teach short bus folks . . . :laugh2:

 

[Galian Beast]

I dont think he would be injured as often here, simply because we wouldnt run him into the ground.

 

[skinsscalper]

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think there's far too much evidence that points to Parcells doing everything personnel wise here as opposed to him just having a voice.

And your rant on the Owens thing is never going to get around the fact that both Jerry and Stephen have both publicly stated they ASKED Parcells multiple times whether he was ok with signing Owens, and that if he had any objections they would have went the other way. Parcells has never said anything to contradict it either.

If Parcells wasnt ok with Owens being on the team, he wouldnt have been on the team.

IT DIDN'T MATTER IF BILL WANTED HIM ON THE TEAM. BILL DIDN'T SIGN HIM! If Bill WAS the GM, and had TOTAL CONTROL of player signings (you know, like a real GM does), Bill would have NEVER entertained the idea of signing him. T.O. wasn't Bill's idea. It was the GMs idea. Is any of this coming through the fog there, fella?

Yes, Parcells was LARGELY responsible for player acquisition. A majority (though NOT all) of the personnel moves made by the Cowboys were the brainchildren of Bill Parcells. It was one of the reasons Jerry brought him here. Bill had a knack for turning teams around. Talent acquisition was part of his formula. Jerry signed "FOB's" because he had no logical or strong argument against it. However, when what Bill wanted conflicted with what Jerry wanted, Jerry won out. It was, ultimately his team. Any other notion is ridiculous. The proof is in the draft around which this entire debate was born. Had Spears NOT slipped to the Cowboys second pick, ultimately Jerry would have gotten his guy and Bill would NOT have gotten his. That is absolutely undeniable. As was stated, the rest of the staff were sure that Ware was the safer prospect and they would try to trade up (which they did try unsuccessfully) to get Spears to assuage a nervous Parcells. As fate would have it Spears fell right into our laps. If he hadn't, like I said, Jerry would have gotten his guy and Bill would have missed his. Bill still sound like the GM to you? Utter ridiculousness. You can type all night long and there's nothing that you will come up with that will change the undeniable fact that Jerry Jones always has rubber stamped EVERY SINGLE MOVE made by the Cowboys since he bought the team. That's his right as a GM and he has never relinquished it. That's not an opinion, dude, that's a fact.

 

[Monster Heel]

Unless Tony Romo gets a Superbowl ring or two onto his hand, he's not going to the HOF.

Can we save all of this bravado for when he actually wins a playoff game?

 

[skinsscalper]

Ah. So, in other words, you agree with everything I said, other than arguing with the GM job title.

So who says you can't teach short bus folks . . . :laugh2:

The original argument was about the GM title, idiot. Obviously, you CAN'T teach the short bus folks.

Like I said to you originally, try and keep up. Flexing your stupidity isn't any more admirable on the internet than it is in real life, there, genius.

 

[DeaconBlues]

The original argument was about the GM title, idiot. Obviously, you CAN'T teach the short bus folks.

Like I said to you originally, try and keep up. Flexing your stupidity isn't any more admirable on the internet than it is in real life, there, genius.

No, the original argument was about control. As you so stated:

Jerry said long ago, even with Bill, that he would take input from his entire staff but he was the ultimate decision maker. When Jerry Jones wants a player he gets his player. Consequences be damned (see Terrel Owens and Roy Williams).

Parcells had control. Jerry had the title. I understand you changed the argument after getting you "opinion" spanked, but the problem is, you original quotes damn you.

So, you argue that Jerry had control over Bill. Myself and others point out that Bill OK'd the moves Jerry wanted (and likely vetoed several other moves that Jerry wanted but didn't get).

Your response is that Jerry had the GM title. Congrats on knowing the two letters in the title, but Bill had control.

Your move, Goldilocks.

 

[skinsscalper]

No, the original argument was about control. As you so stated:



Parcells had control. Jerry had the title. I understand you changed the argument after getting you "opinion" spanked, but the problem is, you original quotes damn you.

So, you argue that Jerry had control over Bill. Myself and others point out that Bill OK'd the moves Jerry wanted (and likely vetoed several other moves that Jerry wanted but didn't get).

Your response is that Jerry had the GM title. Congrats on knowing the two letters in the title, but Bill had control.

Your move, Goldilocks.

I've never changed my argument, Einstein. The argument was about who the real GM was. You know, the guy who has control? The "title" that you've seemed to fall in love with goes to the guy with the control (whom I've stated from the beginning, was Jerry Jones). Hence he gets the title. Ringing any kind of bells there, brainchild.

Go back and re-read the thread let me know when you locate your stupidity.


Really, Bill had all the control? So Bill signed T.O., genius? Bill picked up the phone and dialed up Drew Rosenhous?

The ONLY thing Bill had COMPLETE control of was the field. He made his pitch for certain players and he got what he wanted a MAJORITY of the time. Jerry gave certain liberties to Bill that no other coach had the luxury of. That is undeniable. He NEVER had CONTROL of the Dallas Cowboys. If you truly believe that then you're an idiot. Every move that was made by Parcells was stamped and approved and SIGNED by Jerry Jones. NOT every move that Jerry made was necessarily "sealed with a kiss" by Bill Parcells (see T.O./Peerless Price/Eddie George). To a person with a modicum of comprehension skills that would indicate that the "control", in fact, laid at the feet of Jerry Jones. You know, the guy with "the title" and the actual authority.

Your move, princess.

 

[DeaconBlues]

I've never changed my argument, Einstein. The argument was about who the real GM was. You know, the guy who has control? The "title" that you've seemed to fall in love with goes to the guy with the control (whom I've stated from the beginning, was Jerry Jones). Hence he gets the title. Ringing any kind of bells there, brainchild.

Go back and re-read the thread let me know when you locate your stupidity.


Really, Bill had all the control? So Bill signed T.O., genius? Bill picked up the phone and dialed up Drew Rosenhous?

The ONLY thing Bill had COMPLETE control of was the field. He made his pitch for certain players and he got what he wanted a MAJORITY of the time. Jerry gave certain liberties to Bill that no other coach had the luxury of. That is undeniable. He NEVER had CONTROL of the Dallas Cowboys. If you truly believe that then you're an idiot. Every move that was made by Parcells was stamped and approved and SIGNED by Jerry Jones. NOT every move that Jerry made was necessarily "sealed with a kiss" by Bill Parcells (see T.O./Peerless Price/Eddie George). To a person with a modicum of comprehension skills that would indicate that the "control", in fact, laid at the feet of Jerry Jones. You know, the guy with "the title" and the actual authority.

Your move, princess.

Reading is wonderful. You moved from arguing control to title.

Titles are wonderful things. Anyone can make it up. Jerry owns the team, he can call himself GM, Emperor, Bottle-Washer-in-Chief.

The problem is trying to determine what power relies in the title. You insist that because Jerry named himself GM, that gave him inherent power. Under most of his coaches, that's true. But Jones signed Parcells because he finally realized his "control" wasn't working.

Parcells signed on with an agreement he had control over the team. Jerry could keep the title; Parcells couldn't care less. But Bill, not Jerry had ultimate control.

Jerry wanted TO; ran it past Parcells for his approval.

Jerry thought George had something left in the tank; he got Parcells to OK it.

Notice a pattern???

The only decision you can point at that Jerry got his way was picking Ware over Spears. And Parcells backed off only because Dallas had the second first round pick.

I'm sure the draft board and Parcells assistants also had something to do with his backing down. They convinced him that Spears could be picked up later.

Never would've happened if Dallas only had one first rounder. Bill would have put his foot down.

Really, Bill had all the control? So Bill signed T.O., genius? Bill picked up the phone and dialed up Drew Rosenhous?

You are confusing the duties of GM with control. Bill didn't need to sign anyone; he told Jerry it was OK. Bill didn't need to phone Drew - that's the GM's job. The point is, Jerry ran it past Bill for approval. GM or no GM title, Bill had control.

All the players you named, Bill OK'd first. Not a single one of them just appeared at practice one day. Not one.

Y'a know, your real good at calling names. Less successful at reality.

Now that I'm done beating the dead horse, it's off to work. Good luck with working out the delusions.

 

[skinsscalper]

Reading is wonderful. You moved from arguing control to title.

Titles are wonderful things. Anyone can make it up. Jerry owns the team, he can call himself GM, Emperor, Bottle-Washer-in-Chief.

The problem is trying to determine what power relies in the title. You insist that because Jerry named himself GM, that gave him inherent power. Under most of his coaches, that's true. But Jones signed Parcells because he finally realized his "control" wasn't working.

Parcells signed on with an agreement he had control over the team. Jerry could keep the title; Parcells couldn't care less. But Bill, not Jerry had ultimate control.

Jerry wanted TO; ran it past Parcells for his approval.

Jerry thought George had something left in the tank; he got Parcells to OK it.

Notice a pattern???

The only decision you can point at that Jerry got his way was picking Ware over Spears. And Parcells backed off only because Dallas had the second first round pick.

I'm sure the draft board and Parcells assistants also had something to do with his backing down. They convinced him that Spears could be picked up later.

Never would've happened if Dallas only had one first rounder. Bill would have put his foot down.



You are confusing the duties of GM with control. Bill didn't need to sign anyone; he told Jerry it was OK. Bill didn't need to phone Drew - that's the GM's job. The point is, Jerry ran it past Bill for approval. GM or no GM title, Bill had control.

All the players you named, Bill OK'd first. Not a single one of them just appeared at practice one day. Not one.

Y'a know, your real good at calling names. Less successful at reality.

Now that I'm done beating the dead horse, it's off to work. Good luck with working out the delusions.

Jerry Jones has said before and DURING Bill's tenure that "The buck stops here". Parcells never indicated any different.

The fact remains. Bill NEEDED Jerry's PERMISSION for a player. Jerry SOUGHT Bill's APPROVAL for one. You notice the difference in the dynamic there yet, sport?

Good luck working out the delusions, indeed.

 

[richzre]

I don't think anyone, even Stephen has total control over anything when it comes to GM decisions. Jerry runs the show and that is a fact. Granted, I think Jerry listens to people just like he has with Parcells, Stephen, Jerry Jr., Fans, scouts etc., but at the end of the day, he is gonna do whatever Jerry wants to do. There is no arguing who is in TOTAL control of this team. It has always been Jerry and always will be until he names someone else (like Stephen) to run the team. How can you argue that with everything we know to this point?

Oh, and also, Jerry business card reads:

Owner, President and General Manager

I know because I have one!

 

[dogunwo]

Were there really people who wanted to draft Quinn? Or were upset when we didn't draft him? I think some people played with the idea, but I don't know anyone who was really upset about it.

I know personally, I would have been really upset if we had drafted Quinn or any QB in the first round.

There was definitely one poster here who was butt-hurt about it. I haven't finished reading the thread, I am sure he has chimed in before I get to his post!