Lets Ponder the Patriots Deflationgate Issue

WV Cowboy

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The only conclusion that makes sense is they didn't deflate the balls.

LOL, .. well somebody should probably contact the NFL and we can just wrap this whole thing up right now then. I wonder why they decided to investigate this at all?

Ha .. Somebody must have some other conclusion that makes sense to them because they are still looking into this.
 

JoeKing

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LOL, .. well somebody should probably contact the NFL and we can just wrap this whole thing up right now then. I wonder why they decided to investigate this at all?

Ha .. Somebody must have some other conclusion that makes sense to them because they are still looking into this.

LOL, as is evidence by the Dez catch/no catch ruling, the NFL makes mistakes.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Okay...



Wit isn't one of your strong points. :D

Ha Ha, nice try.

You didnt get that quote from the post you initially replied to. But you already knew that. So once again please show where I said the Pats won because they cheated in the post you replied to initially. Thats what we are talking about.
 

JoeKing

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Ha Ha, nice try.

You didnt get that quote from the post you initially replied to. But you already knew that. So once again please show where I said the Pats won because they cheated in the post you replied to initially. Thats what we are talking about.

Of course you didn't say those exact words but I fail to see your point if you don't think the Pats are cheaters and are motivated to do so because it gives them a completive edge in some way, thus... "the Pats win because they cheat."

I'm not a Pats fan, far from it. Spygate was a terrible incident in NFL history. The Pats earned every bit of the punishment they received and more. That singular incident put their success in question in my mind and has forever left a stain on the NFL shield. That said, I believe in second chances and forgiveness. I respect what the Pats have accomplished during the 2014 season. I don't contribute that success to any cheating on their behalf. Gronk is a beast and Brady is an excellent QB. "Bellicheat" is a jerk, IMHO... but he has a brilliant football mind.

"Deflategate" as it has come to be known, INHO is a manifestation of a media engine mostly drive from NYC. Something happened but I see no smoking gun that definitively points the Pats way. If they are the guilty party, I would think it would be done to help them but in the game in question, that doesn't seem to be the case. The half of the game that was tainted by deflated footballs did not result in the Pats huge lead... no that did not happen until the second half of the game. We all know that half of football was played with NFL regulation sanctioned footballs thus making it a legit win. They are the undisputable 2014-15 AFC Champions IMHO, until it is proven this "deflategate" is more than just hot air.
 

irishline

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I guess I can't understand what your beef is here since you attack me, attack me, attack me and then conclude your post with "oh by the way you're right."

All I have said is the 15% figure is inaccurate and that 7.4% is more accurate.

First off If you consider that asking you "This is what your argument has come down to? The difference in altitude between where the ball was checked and the field it was used on?" is an attack, then I wonder what you calling everyone who disagreed with you in previous threads "whiners", "ridiculous", "stupid", "idiotic", "fools", "haters" etc. would be.

Second, I asked those questions because I was truly confused about the point you were trying to make. I agreed with your last point because it was true. However your statement that few understood relative versus absolute really threw me for a loop because if all you are referring to is the difference between 2psi at relative pressure then why even bring it up? It would be such a small statement to make versus the deflation as to render it kind of pointless.

As for my beef. It has nothing to do with the Patriots. I think something odd happened. I don't know what happened, if it was deliberate, if it was an accident, or what. Many posting here are the same way. However you have this blind allegiance to a team that is quite disturbing. To you if someone disagrees with you they must be haters. If you disagree with a point, everyone else who sees it different than you must be whiners or fools. You see no possibility that the patriots may have done something wrong despite the fact that ambiguity exists. You complain that the ones crucifying them are haters because they point at guilt yet cant prove it. However you cannot prove the Patriots are 100% completely innocent (be honest here).

Mainly my beef is that you put everyone and everything that does not conform to your beliefs down so voraciously that I (and many others) have gotten to the point that we are wondering if you really care about finding the truth or just care that the Patriots are found not guilty in this affair.
 
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WPBCowboysFan

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Of course you didn't say those exact words but I fail to see your point if you don't think the Pats are cheaters and are motivated to do so because it gives them a completive edge in some way, thus... "the Pats win because they cheat."

I'm not a Pats fan, far from it. Spygate was a terrible incident in NFL history. The Pats earned every bit of the punishment they received and more. That singular incident put their success in question in my mind and has forever left a stain on the NFL shield. That said, I believe in second chances and forgiveness. I respect what the Pats have accomplished during the 2014 season. I don't contribute that success to any cheating on their behalf. Gronk is a beast and Brady is an excellent QB. "Bellicheat" is a jerk, IMHO... but he has a brilliant football mind.

"Deflategate" as it has come to be known, INHO is a manifestation of a media engine mostly drive from NYC. Something happened but I see no smoking gun that definitively points the Pats way. If they are the guilty party, I would think it would be done to help them but in the game in question, that doesn't seem to be the case. The half of the game that was tainted by deflated footballs did not result in the Pats huge lead... no that did not happen until the second half of the game. We all know that half of football was played with NFL regulation sanctioned footballs thus making it a legit win. They are the undisputable 2014-15 AFC Champions IMHO, until it is proven this "deflategate" is more than just hot air.


There are 2 separate issues and you seem to be combining the 2. If the Pats cheated, they cheated and broke the rules which exist for a reason. That is 1 issue. The other issue is whether or not it impacted the outcome of the game. Two separate issues. And if the Pats cheated, whether or not it affected the out come of the game or not its till cheating.

The cheating is an isolated issue. If the Pats cheated then they deserve whatever consequences come as a result. The outcome or effect on the game is irrelevant. A rule was broken. Rules exist for a reason and in the case of a sports league they exist to insure/create a fair and level playing field for competition.

I did not say the Pats won the game BECAUSE they cheated. The fact is they cheated, as it is reported. So why would they cheat? Intent is important. Why does anybody cheat on anything? Because they think it helps them in some way. Whether or not it does actually help is irrelevant. The fact is they cheated and they did it trying to gain an advantage that the NFL has ruled is an illegal advantage. The Pats were trying to gain an advantage outside of the rules rather than within the rules of fair play.

If we say, well they would have won anyway so its no big deal, we are taking the wrong approach. Following rules is one of the fundamental aspects of fair and level competition in sports. All cheating should have consequences so it serves as a deterrent for future cheating. It not only sends the right message but it establishes the fact that the rules are important and meant to be taken seriously. Not just for the Patsies, but for all 32 teams, and the fans as well.

The NFL has a real image problem right now. And that image problem comes from inconsistencies in how they regulate their sport when it comes to dealing with those who break the rules, on and off of the field. The image is so bad that even casual fans, and even non fans, know its bad. And it is a direct result of not maintaining a standard based on what is right and wrong. If this defating cheating issue is just blown off, the NFL just makes themselves look bad. The integrity of the league is already questioned by many. Its time they do something to restore some integrity and this deflating issue is a good starting point.


The rules exist for a reason. Teams will try to gain any advantage they can. The league has to maintain a fair and level playing field. Listen to what a former official has to say about it.




Even former players know its an issue.

 
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dogberry

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Wattsupwiththat has a post that links a Carnegie Mellon experiment that gets close to the results reported by the NFL but higher than using just the ideal gas law.

The reviewer suggests that water condensating inside the football would add to the drop in psi.

Picture some poor ball boy having to sit in Robert Kraft's sauna filling up Wilson footballs. Oh the humanity...wonder if he got into Bob's cigars and wine? Might account for the restroom break.
 

Rogah

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Mainly my beef is that you put everyone and everything that does not conform to your beliefs down so voraciously that I (and many others) have gotten to the point that we are wondering if you really care about finding the truth or just care that the Patriots are found not guilty in this affair.
If you think I'm the only talking to others in a condescending, backhanded fashion, you are mistaken.

If your primary beef with me is my attitude then please do me a favor and call out the other individuals in here treating me the way you accuse me of treating others.
 

JoeKing

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There are 2 separate issues and you seem to be combining the 2. If the Pats cheated, they cheated and broke the rules which exist for a reason. That is 1 issue. The other issue is whether or not it impacted the outcome of the game. Two separate issues. And if the Pats cheated, whether or not it affected the out come of the game or not its till cheating.

The cheating is an isolated issue. If the Pats cheated then they deserve whatever consequences come as a result. The outcome or effect on the game is irrelevant. A rule was broken. Rules exist for a reason and in the case of a sports league they exist to insure/create a fair and level playing field for competition.

I did not say the Pats won the game BECAUSE they cheated. The fact is they cheated, as it is reported. So why would they cheat? Intent is important. Why does anybody cheat on anything? Because they think it helps them in some way. Whether or not it does actually help is irrelevant. The fact is they cheated and they did it trying to gain an advantage that the NFL has ruled is an illegal advantage. The Pats were trying to gain an advantage outside of the rules rather than within the rules of fair play.

If we say, well they would have won anyway so its no big deal, we are taking the wrong approach. Following rules is one of the fundamental aspects of fair and level competition in sports. All cheating should have consequences so it serves as a deterrent for future cheating. It not only sends the right message but it establishes the fact that the rules are important and meant to be taken seriously. Not just for the Patsies, but for all 32 teams, and the fans as well.

The NFL has a real image problem right now. And that image problem comes from inconsistencies in how they regulate their sport when it comes to dealing with those who break the rules, on and off of the field. The image is so bad that even casual fans, and even non fans, know its bad. And it is a direct result of not maintaining a standard based on what is right and wrong. If this defating cheating issue is just blown off, the NFL just makes themselves look bad. The integrity of the league is already questioned by many. Its time they do something to restore some integrity and this deflating issue is a good starting point.


The rules exist for a reason. Teams will try to gain any advantage they can. The league has to maintain a fair and level playing field. Listen to what a former official has to say about it.




Even former players know its an issue.



I appreciate your passion for your opinion, but we definitely have differing opinions. The most significant that I can discern is you share the opinion of these ESPN knuckleheads that are already assuming the Pats are guilty before the investigation is completed. I on the other hand, have not jumped to that conclusion as of yet. Mark Brunnel makes a compelling argument against Brady but Jerome Bettis and Brain Dawkins are just not people that I value an opinion from.

I agree rules should exist for a reason. The integrity of this rule was tested for one half of a football game and IMHO, the reason for the rule was invalidated. No one had a competitive edge because the ball was not inflated to exactly NFL specs. No harm was done what so ever.

Once the investigation is over and we hear more of what has been uncovered, maybe my opinion will change but until that time I think "deflategate" is more about distraction than infraction.
 
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Rogah

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The reviewer suggests that water condensating inside the football would add to the drop in psi.
My interpretation of the water - which I gladly admit may be mistaken - is not that there was any sort of internal condensation but that water can stretch out the leather by a small amount. So if there is a fixed amount of air in a sealed container, and that container expands, the amount of PSI decreases....


Have no idea if that's legit or not...
 

JoeKing

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If you think I'm the only talking to others in a condescending, backhanded fashion, you are mistaken.

If your primary beef with me is my attitude then please do me a favor and call out the other individuals in here treating me the way you accuse me of treating others.

So you are justifying your rudeness by others rudeness? Two wrongs never make a right.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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I appreciate your passion for your opinion, but we definitely have differing opinions. The most significant that I can discern is you share the opinion of these ESPN knuckleheads that are already assuming the Pats are guilty before the investigation is completed. I on the other hand, have not jumped to that conclusion as of yet. Mark Brunnel makes a compelling argument against Brady but Jerome Bettis and Brain Dawkins are just not people that I value an opinion from.

I agree rules should exist for a reason. The integrity of this rule was tested for one half of a football game and IMHO, the reason for the rule was invalidated. No one had a competitive edge because the ball was not inflated to exactly NFL specs. No harm was done what so ever.

Once the investigation is over and we hear more of what has been uncovered, maybe my opinion will change but until that time I think "deflategate" is more about distraction than infraction.

Troy talked about it as well and he said nothing happens to the footballs w/o the QB's ok.

This isnt a "if the glove doesnt fit you must acquit" courtroom scenario, its pretty simple really. The simple fact is the Pats balls were deflated and the Colts balls were not. Officials have to certify/verify that the psi is correct before games. Why would an official not do his job? Its what he's paid to do. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt may be required to convict in a court of law, but we're talking about footballs in a sports league. And the balls for one team were deflated. Somebody had to let the air out. There is no getting around that. There are only several explanations. And all the explanations point one big finger right at the Patriots organization. So the only mystery yet to be determined is how this will be "explained" to the general public.

I really dont know how anybody other than a blind Pats homer in denial could see it any other way.
 

khiladi

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What investigation when nobody interviewed players and coaches? What can a forensic expert tell us about balls already inflated after the game, and touched by countless hands? This is a joke of an investigation.
 

DFWJC

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Troy talked about it as well and he said nothing happens to the footballs w/o the QB's ok.

This isnt a "if the glove doesnt fit you must acquit" courtroom scenario, its pretty simple really. The simple fact is the Pats balls were deflated and the Colts balls were not. Officials have to certify/verify that the psi is correct before games. Why would an official not do his job? Its what he's paid to do. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt may be required to convict in a court of law, but we're talking about footballs in a sports league. And the balls for one team were deflated. Somebody had to let the air out. There is no getting around that. There are only several explanations. And all the explanations point one big finger right at the Patriots organization. So the only mystery yet to be determined is how this will be "explained" to the general public.

I really dont know how anybody other than a blind Pats homer in denial could see it any other way.

I know this wasn't for me, but there is something that should be clarified.

They did not say the Colts balls did not deflate. People keep saying that and that's not what they said.

They said the Colts balls were still within the legal guidelines.

it would be impossible to know if they deflated or not without keeping record of the exact psi of each ball before the game and at halftime. They did not do that and have never done that.
All they care is that the balls are (roughly) within the 12.5 - 13.5 legal range. They measure that with a hand held air gauge and not a digital one.

I'm not saying that explains anything one way or the other.
I'm just highlighting something that keeps getting misstated in this thread.
 
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