Looks like another year of cheap/injured/washed up Free Agents for us

Kwyn

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It continues to surprise me how confused many of our posters can be when it comes to how the NFL works

Some of you guys are like the kid you see in the grocery store, constantly picking stuff up off the shelf and saying “mommy, can I have this?” and then being told “no baby, put that back.”

Hate to break it to you but mommy has a grocery budget and you can’t have a new toy every time she goes for diapers and bread.

“But, but ... I want it!”
 

BigStar

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I give you facts that show you are wrong and you can't keep the discussion serious.
You showed me the team has won over the last 50 years lol..great point. You didn't even try to make a point you brought up our winning percentage from the 1990's like that awards them any leeway at all in the present state. You're covering for a lazy FO and using dated winning records to prove a point about how well they draft currently; doesn't correlate or make any sense.
 

Kwyn

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You showed me the team has won over the last 50 years lol..great point. You didn't even try to make a point you brought up our winning percentage from the 1990's like that awards them any leeway at all in the present state. You're covering for a lazy FO and using dated winning records to prove a point about how well they draft currently; doesn't correlate or make any sense.
I think someone posted resent PFF study they showed we were a top 3 drafting team over the last five years

hard to believe from a fan perspective where nothing is ever good enough but they’re the experts
 

JoeKing

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You showed me the team has won over the last 50 years lol..great point. You didn't even try to make a point you brought up our winning percentage from the 1990's like that awards them any leeway at all in the present state. You're covering for a lazy FO and using dated winning records to prove a point about how well they draft currently; doesn't correlate or make any sense.
I included the entire history of the cowboys including the last 25 years to make my point. You just can't face facts.
 

Sydla

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It continues to surprise me how confused many of our posters can be when it comes to how the NFL works

Some of you guys are like the kid you see in the grocery store, constantly picking stuff up off the shelf and saying “mommy, can I have this?” and then being told “no baby, put that back.”

Hate to break it to you but mommy has a grocery budget and you can’t have a new toy every time she goes for diapers and bread.

“But, but ... I want it!”

The better analogy would be a mom goes to the store with her kid and he grabs a bottle of milk and mom says, put that back we don't need that. Then she goes home and realizes, crap, we needed milk.
 

Sydla

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I think someone posted resent PFF study they showed we were a top 3 drafting team over the last five years

hard to believe from a fan perspective where nothing is ever good enough but they’re the experts

Great, what has a Top 3 drafting position gotten us? They've won two playoff games in a decade.

The reality is this. They draft pretty well. But suck at FA and at hiring coaches. Hence why their good drafting never amounts to much success beyond a handful of winning seasons where they get bounced in the playoffs early.

How fans can continue to make excuses for the Jones when they fail year after year is hilarious to me.
 

Sydla

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You should reconsider getting into a battle of wits when you are so poorly armed. Until recently the Cowboys have been the winningest team in the NFL history despite no recent championships. The team is admittedly in down years. A person with a myopic vision such as yourself may think it's always been that way but those of us with a longer memory than yours or have actually picked up a book to educate ourselves know otherwise.

Ranking Every NFL Team by All-Time Winning Percentage | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

You linked to an all time winning percentage source.

What does games won in the 70s and 80s have to do with the current Cowboys and how their roster building strategy has or hasn't worked over the last 5-7 years?
 

CATCH17

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You guys got sold relevancy.. Enjoy.. For most of you it’s what you wanted.


I’d be more excited about a rebuild then this dead end road.
 

JoeKing

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You linked to an all time winning percentage source.

What does games won in the 70s and 80s have to do with the current Cowboys and how their roster building strategy has or hasn't worked over the last 5-7 years?
It includes now as well... otherwise it wouldn't be "all-time".
 

Sydla

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It includes now as well... otherwise it wouldn't be "all-time".

LOL. Wouldn't an analysis of how well the front office has built the roster in the last 5-7 years just include the on the field results of the last 5-7 years?

Again, what does what the record of the Cowboys in 1973 have to do with Jerry and his roster building formula over the last 7 seasons?
 

JoeKing

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LOL. Wouldn't an analysis of how well the front office has built the roster in the last 5-7 years just include the on the field results of the last 5-7 years?

Again, what does what the record of the Cowboys in 1973 have to do with Jerry and his roster building formula over the last 7 seasons?
A more inclusive analysis that encludes Jerry's whole time as owner/GM is what I provided. It's a more honest telling of how the FO is doing. You would rather cherry-pick just bad years and not have a fair telling of the FO performance.
 

Sydla

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A more inclusive analysis that encludes Jerry's whole time as owner/GM is what I provided. It's a more honest telling of how the FO is doing. You would rather cherry-pick just bad years and not have a fair telling of the FO performance.

It's not really cherry picking anything. The franchise has won 4 playoff games in 25 years. Jerry's only real success as GM came in the early 90s with Jimmy Johnson. So why would what Jerry did 30 years ago be applicable to the current state of the franchise? Why would how they built the team in an uncapped NFL be applicable to how Jerry and his son currently manage the roster today?

It wouldn't. Unless you realize you can't defend their roster building now because it has resulted in some pretty poor results in recent years.

Look at it this way. Let's say a coach wins a Super Bowl in his 2nd season. Then he goes the next 12 seasons not even making the playoffs. Do you keep him around just because he did something good a dozen years ago or do you look at the totality of the run and realize, damn, somehting needs to change, the results recently have been pretty poor?
 

BigStar

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I think someone posted resent PFF study they showed we were a top 3 drafting team over the last five years

hard to believe from a fan perspective where nothing is ever good enough but they’re the experts
What I have more of an issue with is pointing that "success" as a reason you can sit out FA.

I would agree it seems we hit slightly higher more recently, but what success has that shown in terms of W-L over the course of time? But the Taco level bad picks are somewhat rare compared to our older bust days of Shante Carver/Goodrich type of day busts etc.

It definitely hasn't rewarded the arrogance it feels comes with the "we like our own guys" mantra that I was tackling in that point more than anything. They point to that as why they can sit out FA...stop the truck sir (not you, in general)
 
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JoeKing

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It's not really cherry picking anything. The franchise has won 4 playoff games in 25 years. Jerry's only real success as GM came in the early 90s with Jimmy Johnson. So why would what Jerry did 30 years ago be applicable to the current state of the franchise? Why would how they built the team in an uncapped NFL be applicable to how Jerry and his son currently manage the roster today?

It wouldn't. Unless you realize you can't defend their roster building now because it has resulted in some pretty poor results in recent years.

Look at it this way. Let's say a coach wins a Super Bowl in his 2nd season. Then he goes the next 12 seasons not even making the playoffs. Do you keep him around just because he did something good a dozen years ago or do you look at the totality of the run and realize, damn, somehting needs to change, the results recently have been pretty poor?
It is exactly cherry-picking when you want to critic a man for the job he does but only wants to include bad years. That no way to fairly evaluate someone.
 

Sydla

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It is exactly cherry-picking when you want to critic a man for the job he does but only wants to include bad years. That no way to fairly evaluate someone.

Actually it is. People are judged all the time on more recent results. In no world would/should a guy get a pass for recent failures because he did something good 25-30 years ago.

Let's say you are a sales manager for a medical device company. You hire a sales guy who does great his first 3 years. But then, over the next 10 years, he fails to even meet the average sales numbers for the rest of the division. Does that guy deserve criticism? Or do you just give him a pass because he did something many years prior?

With regards to the Cowboys, what Jerry did in the early 90s really has no bearing on how he's managed the team in recent years. I mean it's downright idiotic to claim he's doing a really nice job at roster building because he helped build a team that won a SB 26 years ago.
 

Robbieac

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You guys got sold relevancy.. Enjoy.. For most of you it’s what you wanted.


I’d be more excited about a rebuild then this dead end road.
Exactly.

Anybody who celebrated us resigning Dak has no business complaining that we don't get high-profile free agents.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You guys chose Dak. Suck it up and deal with it now.
 

JoeKing

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Actually it is. People are judged all the time on more recent results. In no world would/should a guy get a pass for recent failures because he did something good 25-30 years ago.

Let's say you are a sales manager for a medical device company. You hire a sales guy who does great his first 3 years. But then, over the next 10 years, he fails to even meet the average sales numbers for the rest of the division. Does that guy deserve criticism? Or do you just give him a pass because he did something many years prior?

With regards to the Cowboys, what Jerry did in the early 90s really has no bearing on how he's managed the team in recent years. I mean it's downright idiotic to claim he's doing a really nice job at roster building because he helped build a team that won a SB 26 years ago.
This is not a medical device company. It's apples and oranges from the General Manager/ Owner job that Jerry does. He has grown this team's value every year he has owned it into the most valuable sports team in the world. You seem to have an issue with Jerry keeping this team the most winningest team while under his ownership. He is vastly successful at his job and one of the most respected GMs in the league. Your argument is simply cherry-picking the past few years of a career that spans a quarter-century. It's short-sighted and wholly unfair.
 

Sydla

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This is not a medical device company. It's apples and oranges from the General Manager/ Owner job that Jerry does. He has grown this team's value every year he has owned it into the most valuable sports team in the world. You seem to have an issue with Jerry keeping this team the most winningest team while under his ownership. He is vastly successful at his job and one of the most respected GMs in the league. Your argument is simply cherry-picking the past few years of a career that spans a quarter-century. It's short-sighted and wholly unfair.

It's really not apples and oranges. It's a simple analogy to show that recent results, in almost every walk of life, tends to carry more weight as time goes on than results way in the past. It's why coaches get fired eventually even if they have early success. It's why GMs get fired eventually even if they have early success.

You are conflating things here as well because you struggle to admit Jerry has been a poor steward of the football operations in recent years. Separate Jerry the business owner of the Cowboys from Jerry the director of football operations. Jerry is clearly a shrewd business person, having made money in a variety of industries. He's also a master marketer having had the ability to tap into the popularity and culture of the Cowboys. There is no question that he's a fantastic owner from a business sense. It's why he's in the Hall of Fame. You could argue no owner has shaped the business side of the NFL more than Jerry over the last 30 years.

He's most certainly not in the Hall of Fame for his GM skills, however. Jerry Jones (and his kid) have run football operations since Jimmy left. Since the last SB with a team Jerry and Jimmy built, 25 years have gone by and over that period, they have 4 playoff wins total. Yes, you read that right. In 25 years since their last SB, they have won only 4 playoff games. They are one of like 6-8 teams in the entire NFL who have not even played in a conference title game over that same period. What GM in the NFL would survive that kind of run? No one would.

You made this statement:

Your argument is simply cherry-picking the past few years of a career that spans a quarter-century. It's short-sighted and wholly unfair.

It's really not the last couple of years. It's been 25 years as I noted above. The franchise has not won a thing since 1995. He's had sole control of all things on the football side of the franchise over that period. Further, the Cowboys lack of any sound, rational plan in FA other than be real cheap has come into play more in recent years as Stephen as become more involved. There was a time when Jerry might throw a dumb contract at a FA but he no longer does that largely because Stephen has sold him on the idea that spending in FA doesn't work. This has been evident since the Brandon Carr contract.

The problem is these have operated on the edges. They went from Jerry spending like an idiot in FA to Jerry not spending any real money. There is a huge gap between spending like a fool in FA and not spending much at all and the Cowboys seem intent on ignoring it.

And it shows in their recent results. For while they draft better than average, their teams are clearly flawed year to year because they simply fail to acknowledge holes or overvalue their ability to find cheap options to fill those holes adequately. Look back at their free agent signings over the last 5 years. Very few, if any, have really made any real impact. And it shows on the field as the team has continually underperformed and been let down by clear holes that they refused to try to fill (mostly on defense over the years) with good players.

PS - Where did you pull this idea that he's one of the most respected GMs in football?
 
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Future

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I don't think there is an argument at all about how effective this plan is......26 years and counting. Let's keep doing what we're doing, its bound to work out eventually. Isn't it?
Yea, spending big on FAs is a proven way to win...
 

Sydla

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Yea, spending big on FAs is a proven way to win...


Spending like a drunken fool in FA doesn't work.

Guess what else doesn't work? Hunting for scraps on the cheap two weeks after the start of FA.

If only there was another way to use FA, where maybe you target one guy early that you know can play, sign him and then look for solid roster filler as the market settles more? I wonder if the league rules allow that kind of judicious approach to free agency?
 
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