Looks like the Big 12 knows they screwed up

Danny White

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ScipioCowboy;2460232 said:
The tiebreaking system within the Big 12 differs markedly from other conferences. In most conferences, when there is a three way tie for first place, they take the two teams with the highest ranking and determine a champion based on the head-to-head record between those two teams.

It is possible the Big 12 could implement a similar system next season.

Scipio, I don't think this is necessarily true... I think you've been buying into the Mack Brown propaganda too much. ;)

I came across this website that analyzes all the tiebreaking rules for the various BCS conferences.

The truth is that all conferences have different procedures to determine tiebreakers, and that Mack's favored option (option H in this article) is only employed by the SEC as best as I can tell.

I don't mind if the Big XII employs that system in the future, but I don't like Mack flat out lying to try to make his case as he did in making this quote:

"Since this situation has never happened before in the Big 12, I think the conference should follow the lead of all of the other BCS leagues with championship games (ACC/Conference USA/Mid-American/SEC) in how they settle three-way ties. I think their systems are fairer and give more credit to how the two highest ranked teams performed against each other on the field."

The ACC clearly doesn't employ this rule, and as best as I can tell CUSA and MAC doesn't either.

http://www.fanblogs.com/ncaa/007866.php
Conference Tie Breakers

What are the tie breakers for each conference? To list them all would take a great deal of space. Since they have a large degree similarities I can condense them somewhat. The conference tiebreakers are listed in order by capital letters. The key for these letters are as follows:

Key to tie breakers
A) Head to head among tied teams
B) Record against teams within the same division
C) Results vs opponents within the same division with the best record, repeated through the team with the worse record.
D) Common conference opponents
E) All non-division opponents
F) Results vs all conference opponents with the best record, repeated through the team with the worse record
G) BCS Standings
H) BCS standings, unless top two are within 5 rankings, then head to head of top two in the BCS standings.
I) Combined Record of non-division opponents
J) Eliminate the team with the most recent BCS automatic qualification (or Rose Bowl appearance)
K) Best overall W-L Record
L) Eliminate teams not eligible for post season play
M) Least number of FCS teams played
N) Draw

Tie breakers
ACC
A B C (I if three or more teams) D (E if only two teams are tied) F G N

Big East
A G

Big 10
L A M K J

Big 12
A B C D G K N

PAC 10
A F G J

SEC
A B C E D F H

Notes
Tie breakers only apply to selection for conference title games and for BCS automatic qualifications for conferences not having a championship game. The order of bowls relative to a conference are selection order and may differ from the order in the official standings, if the bowls so chose.

I have eliminated cases that deal with ties and cases where a full schedule is not played. Except where indicated, the rules are parallel for 2 team ties and those involving more than two teams. It is amazing to me how convoluted a conference can describe head to head tie breakers and all the cases involved with ties. By head to head I mean only games between the teams in the tie are considered and these results compared.

All the cases involving ties (say, if a game is unable to be finished while the score is tied and the coaches agree to a tie) are equivalent to treating them as a half win - half loss.

For conferences with round robins or a divisional structure, head to head will break all two team ties, since overtime rules have eliminated tied games. Thus the ACC's list beyond head to head is not possible in football.

The BCS standings have never been tied at any spot. With the current number of pollsters and computers the odds of a tie at a given location (the lowest common denominator of a sum of fractions with the number of voters in each denominator) are about 1 in 14,000. If a single coach is eliminated from the coaches poll this reduces to 1 in 7,000. If an additional voter is added to the Harris Poll the odds further reduce to 1 in 1,400, while two less Harris voters reduce the odds to 1 in 2,300.

The odds of a tie anywhere in the top 25 is about 1 in 500, or once every 72 years with 7 BCS standings posted per year. We are not likely to see a meaningful tie in the BCS standings any time soon.

Posted by Ben Prather

MAC Rules: http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache...ker&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

CUSA Rules: http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cach...ker&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
 

Rogah

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ScipioCowboy;2460346 said:
Absolutely. I'm merely pointing out that the system used by other conferences seems to generate less rancor and discontent in the national media.
Have any of those other conferences ever had a 3-way tie for 1st place where all 3 teams had identical conference records, identical natinal records, and were all 1-1 against each other? I honestly don't think this has ever happened before (but I certainly may be wrong).

I bet there would be just as much national rancor if this were a 1-loss Auburn, Alabama and LSU no matter what tie breaking procedure is used. And sure enough someone from one of the teams that was left out would say "Hey, if we were in the Big XII we would be going instead of them, so look at how much sense the Big XII's tiebreaker system makes..!!"
 

ScipioCowboy

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Danny White;2460554 said:
Scipio, I don't think this is necessarily true... I think you've been buying into the Mack Brown propaganda too much. ;)

Actually, no.

I learned this from J. Adande on ESPN. He and a few other talking heads stated that, in most other conferences, Texas rather than Oklahoma would be the representative.

Obviously, we can't right any wrongs this season. I only mention it because there's currently talk of revising the Big 12 tie breaking system from people other than Mack Brown.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Rowdy;2460844 said:
Lol. Wow.

Obviously, if they actually revise the system, they're admitting that a wrong occurred.

Of course, they may choose not to revise the Big 12 tie breaking system. I'm only saying that, if one team was indeed wronged, it won't be corrected this season.
 

Danny White

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ScipioCowboy;2460827 said:
Actually, no.

I learned this from J. Adande on ESPN. He and a few other talking heads stated that, in most other conferences, Texas rather than Oklahoma would be the representative.

Obviously, we can't right any wrongs this season. I only mention it because there's currently talk of revising the Big 12 tie breaking system from people other than Mack Brown.

I was just needling you about the Mack Brown stuff... my main point is that, as far as I can tell, the SEC is the only conference that drops one team out of the running based on BCS rankings and then goes to head-to-head for the remaining two teams. If another conference does this, I certainly couldn't find any evidence of that. And it certainly isn't the case that "most" other conferences follow this method.
 

CATCH17

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Danny White;2460900 said:
I was just needling you about the Mack Brown stuff... my main point is that, as far as I can tell, the SEC is the only conference that drops one team out of the running based on BCS rankings and then goes to head-to-head for the remaining two teams. If another conference does this, I certainly couldn't find any evidence of that. And it certainly isn't the case that "most" other conferences follow this method.

ACC does as well.

The only conference, with a Conference Championship Game, to not use this tie breaker is the big 12.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Dallas;2460005 said:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its time to put on the Big Boy pants and get over it ABQ.


Yeah, you can tell me this when you actually show up after an OU loss to Texas.
 

Dallas

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ABQCOWBOY;2461289 said:
Yeah, you can tell me this when you actually show up after an OU loss to Texas.


You got nothing. See above. :lmao2:
 

Dallas

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ABQCOWBOY;2461422 said:
One man's opinion I suppose.

Doesn't change the fact that you were MIA. ;)

I suppose. You do realize you probably should hang a banner up around here that says everyone is REQUIRED to come back after a game and give post-game comments.

I hadn't talked all week of Oklahoma beating Texas. I didn't know that I would be hammered and judged on what a terrible person I am.

I can understand folks getting snippy if I was beating my chest and saying all these things about Oklahoma going to roll Texas. I didn't do that, so I didn't even think to come back in and make certain our Texas Longhorn fans were happy. My bad. Ill just not post anything from now on regarding the OU/TX game anymore. Most of it was between Poke and I because we have done it so long. Shrug! If I don't say anything, am I still required to respond? I seriously don't know the rules about all of that.

I guess you'll just have to harbor those bad feelings towards me ABQ.

But believe this.

I'll live. ;)
 

Danny White

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CATCH17;2461233 said:
ACC does as well.

The only conference, with a Conference Championship Game, to not use this tie breaker is the big 12.

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. If someone can show me something from those conferences' rules where it indicates this, then I'll believe it. But as long as it's just bitter coaches and mediots saying it, I don't necessarily believe it.

From everything I've researched, the only conference that I can tell that definitely uses this specific tiebreaker is the SEC. The ACC does not use it. And from what I've been able to find, I don't think MAC or CUSA uses it either.

I think people have just gotten used to repeating bad information here.
 

Dallas

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Danny White;2461586 said:
I'm pretty sure that's not correct. If someone can show me something from those conferences' rules where it indicates this, then I'll believe it. But as long as it's just bitter coaches and mediots saying it, I don't necessarily believe it.

From everything I've researched, the only conference that I can tell that definitely uses this specific tiebreaker is the SEC. The ACC does not use it. And from what I've been able to find, I don't think MAC or CUSA uses it either.

I think people have just gotten used to repeating bad information here.


Three (or More) Team Tie
(Once tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker format is used)
  • 1. Combined head-to-head record among the tied teams

    2. Records of the tied teams within the division.

    3. Head-to-head competition vs. the team within the division with the best overall (divisional or conference) record, and proceeding through the division. Multiple ties within the division will be broken first to last.

    4. Overall record for non-divisional teams.

    5. Combined record versus all common non-divisional teams.

    6. Record versus common non-divisional with the best overall Conference (divisional) and non-divisional record and proceeding through the other common non-divisional teams based on their order of finish within the division.

    7. The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the conclusion of regular season games shall be the divisional representative in the ACC Championship Game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the ACC Championship Game.

    8. The representative shall be chosen by a draw.
 

Route 66

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I'll just say this....

It is what it is concerning the BCS. I understand the contempt Texas has and can understand their feelings. Season's not over yet and if OU lays an egg, you guys are right there. Regardless, I hope this changes soon and we won't have to deal with it on either side anymore.
 

Danny White

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Dallas;2461619 said:
Three (or More) Team Tie
(Once tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker format is used)
  • 1. Combined head-to-head record among the tied teams

    2. Records of the tied teams within the division.

    3. Head-to-head competition vs. the team within the division with the best overall (divisional or conference) record, and proceeding through the division. Multiple ties within the division will be broken first to last.

    4. Overall record for non-divisional teams.

    5. Combined record versus all common non-divisional teams.

    6. Record versus common non-divisional with the best overall Conference (divisional) and non-divisional record and proceeding through the other common non-divisional teams based on their order of finish within the division.

    7. The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the conclusion of regular season games shall be the divisional representative in the ACC Championship Game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the ACC Championship Game.

    8. The representative shall be chosen by a draw.

Thanks for posting. So I guess I'm wrong then?

Figuring out these tiebreakers is like deciphering the rosetta stone.
 

Dallas

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Danny White;2461640 said:
Thanks for posting. So I guess I'm wrong then?

Figuring out these tiebreakers is like deciphering the rosetta stone.


It most certainly is. I had to result to my old trusty..

English_ouija_board.jpg
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Dallas;2461428 said:
I suppose. You do realize you probably should hang a banner up around here that says everyone is REQUIRED to come back after a game and give post-game comments.

I hadn't talked all week of Oklahoma beating Texas. I didn't know that I would be hammered and judged on what a terrible person I am.

I can understand folks getting snippy if I was beating my chest and saying all these things about Oklahoma going to roll Texas. I didn't do that, so I didn't even think to come back in and make certain our Texas Longhorn fans were happy. My bad. Ill just not post anything from now on regarding the OU/TX game anymore. Most of it was between Poke and I because we have done it so long. Shrug! If I don't say anything, am I still required to respond? I seriously don't know the rules about all of that.

I guess you'll just have to harbor those bad feelings towards me ABQ.

But believe this.

I'll live. ;)

Lots of thought put into this post.

I'll just say the best teams aren't playing for the Big 12 championship and leave it at that.

Sucks, I know, but like you said "I'll live".
 

Route 66

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ABQCOWBOY;2462093 said:
Lots of thought put into this post.

I'll just say the best teams aren't playing for the Big 12 championship and leave it at that.

Sucks, I know, but like you said "I'll live".

According to the rules that college football follows, OU is ranked higher and is therefore the better team. Have a nice day. :)
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Rowdy;2462205 said:
According to the rules that college football follows, OU is ranked higher and is therefore the better team. Have a nice day. :)


No, according to the rules of the Big12 only, is what I believe you are trying to say and for the record, I usually do have good days on Friday. ;)
 

Route 66

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ABQCOWBOY;2462322 said:
No, according to the rules of the Big12 only, is what I believe you are trying to say and for the record, I usually do have good days on Friday. ;)

No, I said what I meant to say. :)
 
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