Recommended Loss Forensics: Romo vs. the League's Top QB

jobberone

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If you want to focus on SB winners then don't look at the QB. Look at the defense. Used to be ppts diff was a prime determinant but not anymore. But it has always been the offenses are close to one another with a slight nod to the loser (in general and on average) but with a moreso diff for the winner's defense which gives up about 15 ppg and the loser about 17. Doesn't seem like much but the trend is hard to ignore.

So if you want a stat that is fairly predictive then choose the better defensive ball club. Which pretty much blows up the QB is the most important thing about winning SBs. Now if you want to argue they are very important ok. Also if you want to argue you need to score about 27 ppg to get there with a diff of about 12 ok, too. Still not simple but lends a fair amount of proof this is a team game in all three phases. And yes you need a good QB.
 

Super_Kazuya

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I am glad that I don't watch ESPN. I will just say that I disagree with everything you said. A QB does touch the ball every play and the good ones are an extension of the OC on the field. It is common knowledge that this is a QB driven game. Without good QB play, winning is rare. You use a simple handoff as an example that requires no special skill. Maybe you missed the tons of turnovers and negative plays that failing to execute a handoff has caused. It seems that you don't have much respect or appreciation for the QB position. If it was so easy, you could do it. I didn't know the most important position on the team was so overrated.

It's not the most important position on the field, but keep on believing what ESPN has told you. I'll go with what is pretty obvious. It seems like you don't have any appreciation for the positions that are actually out there doing work. But you tune in to see Manning vs Brady and their gladitorial duel at midfield. I don't know how many average QBs have to win the Super Bowl to get it through to the unwashed masses. They'll learn.
 

Zman5

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Yes, traditionally Romo has been quite good on third down. It's a common theme that Romo's passer rating supposedly makes him look better than he really is. One of the aims of the OP was to show how Romo is actually better than his passer rating, at least in these situations.

Romo was one of the best if not the best at converting 3rd downs between 2006-2009 before JG fully installed his crappy offense. It didn't matter if it was 3rd and long, it was almost automatic.

I remember Aikman always commenting during games about it. He was very impressed.

This was before JG started to incorporate 1/2 yard pass patterns for Witten when it was 3rd and 7.
 

jnday

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If you want to focus on SB winners then don't look at the QB. Look at the defense. Used to be ppts diff was a prime determinant but not anymore. But it has always been the offenses are close to one another with a slight nod to the loser (in general and on average) but with a moreso diff for the winner's defense which gives up about 15 ppg and the loser about 17. Doesn't seem like much but the trend is hard to ignore.

So if you want a stat that is fairly predictive then choose the better defensive ball club. Which pretty much blows up the QB is the most important thing about winning SBs. Now if you want to argue they are very important ok. Also if you want to argue you need to score about 27 ppg to get there with a diff of about 12 ok, too. Still not simple but lends a fair amount of proof this is a team game in all three phases. And yes you need a good QB.

I think the QB position is the most important position on the team. There is no other position on the team that has the impact and effects so much on either side of the ball . With that being said, a good defense is a must. It takes a total team that is playing good football to win it all.
 

Cebrin

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I like Wilson a lot myself, then again I like what the Seahawks have put together as an entire team. I commend them on a job well done in all 3 phases of the game.

Agreed. They're running a sound program there. You can't say that for any part of Romo's turn. I'm not trying to make Romo out to be Montana's second coming by any means. However, you can't deny that he's made something out of nothing. This organization has been horrible for too long. In too many areas. I do really like Wilson though. He's a great skill set. Romo does as well. We just haven't capitalized as a whole to make it matter.
 

Cebrin

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I think the QB position is the most important position on the team. There is no other position on the team that has the impact and effects so much on either side of the ball . With that being said, a good defense is a must. It takes a total team that is playing good football to win it all.

What?
 

jnday

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It's not the most important position on the field, but keep on believing what ESPN has told you. I'll go with what is pretty obvious. It seems like you don't have any appreciation for the positions that are actually out there doing work. But you tune in to see Manning vs Brady and their gladitorial duel at midfield. I don't know how many average QBs have to win the Super Bowl to get it through to the unwashed masses. They'll learn.

There has been some average QBs that has won a Super Bowl when they had good defenses to support them. Please tell me what position has the impact of a QB . Just tell me what CB, RG, FS, etc has the impact. Explain how Barry Church has more impact than Romo. Explain the position or positions. This should be entertaining to say the least. As I said before, I don't watch ESPN or the NFL Network. I just happened to notice that there is not another position that has the ball in their hands every play and has to make the decision what to do with the ball. Show where me and millions of other fans, players , coaches , etc are wrong. The salary cap situation on every team can be improved since there is no need for a good QB on the roster.
 

Super_Kazuya

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There has been some average QBs that has won a Super Bowl when they had good defenses to support them. Please tell me what position has the impact of a QB . Just tell me what CB, RG, FS, etc has the impact. Explain how Barry Church has more impact than Romo. Explain the position or positions. This should be entertaining to say the least. As I said before, I don't watch ESPN or the NFL Network. I just happened to notice that there is not another position that has the ball in their hands every play and has to make the decision what to do with the ball. Show where me and millions of other fans, players , coaches , etc are wrong. The salary cap situation on every team can be improved since there is no need for a good QB on the roster.

Again, it's not hard. Stop exaggerating the position as if the QB is some kind of god. Your hands on the ball every play mantra sounds stupid, acting like handing off the ball is some kind of act worthy of jock-sniffing and every QB is a Peyton Manning wizard barking Omaha. On 50-75% of the plays in an NFL game, quarterbacks do absolutely nothing noteworthy. Comparing them to players who actually do things on every single snap that they're in the game is tricky. It's a case by case basis.

We all know that you couldn't live in a world where Romo is not the number one guy to blame in life because that is the basis for your entire schtick here. Romo being one among many important pieces, and not a football demigod, would have you flying head first off the nearest skyscraper.
 

TheDude

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"the qb touches the ball on every play" is a stupid sports cliche that doesn't make any sense or hold up under any kind of examination. On some teams the quarterback is the most important player, but not on all teams. ESPN wants you to believe that QBs are magical gods that face each other in combat so they can bill the games as "Brady vs. Manning". In reality, QBs don't play at all in over half of the game (defense, special teams) and on half of the plays they do participate in they hand off the ball and then get out of the way and let the other guys go 10 on 11 (wow, so important). Even when they are passing the ball, not everything they do is some kind of critical play that couldn't be executed by hundreds of guys across America. Don't get me wrong, someone like Manning is super important, but he really is the team's offensive coordinator on the field. But he's the exception, not the rule. The obsession with quarterbacks is for lazy, dumb, ESPN brain-addled sports fans.

So Chad, QUincy, Clint Stoerner, Sanchez, Gabbert, Alex Smith, Ponder, Freeman, were all victim of circumstance?

Passing well and defending the pass are higher correlated with winning. As to the first, the QB is paramount importance. He has to read the defense, decide whether to audible, change protections, etc.

When passing, he has to 1) read the covereages, 2) decide where to go with the ball 3) Know the hot routes, 4) deliver the ball with zip or touch, etc.

QB is the most important piece and that is why they are paid the most. The market knows all
 

cml750

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Anyone who blames Romo for this teams issues has there head under a rock. Percy's tremendous OP proves that. Personally, I think offensive play calling and game management, which falls on the coaching staff are our biggest issues on offense. Piss poor defenses are another big problem and when you have a coach who doesn't know how to manage a game to offset the defensive weaknesses with play calling you end up having a situation like we do where the QB has to try to carry the team to win games.
 

Frosty

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Don't get me wrong I like Romo.. but he is who he is..... Again, fans who support Romo are forced to use stats to prove their points...because Romo does not have the SuperBowl or Playoff wins on his resume.......the beauty of stats is, they can be used to support whatever argument the author wants to share.

Below is another media outlet providing a common public opinion about Romo (Stats vs Simplicity)

T-8. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys


A few evaluators questioned whether Romo had the mind-set to play at the highest level consistently. It's a familiar refrain in league circles, a feeling that Romo is an undisciplined QB playing for an undisciplined organization with a poorly constructed roster.

"People want to knock him," one GM responded, "but the guy has talent and is one of the top 10 starters in the league."

Romo is 34 years old and coming off back surgery, but he still could be in line for a "monster" season, one evaluator said. "But I absolutely believe they will not win big with him. As soon as he decides it's a clutch moment, his brain goes elsewhere. He loses focus and tries to create something."
 

percyhoward

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I know this thread isn't about elimination games none of your threads ever are because you can't find any stats/passer ratings in those games that have Romo ranked with Montana, Rodgers, Brees and many other QB's who've won championships. Your last thread had Romo "according to the stats" as the second best QB behind Rodgers in the last 5 minutes when everyone knows it's been turnovers in the last 5 minutes by Romo that has created the stigma he has. I'm sure you can find stats in certain situations the past 4 seasons that have Romo ranked amongst HOF QB's even though his W/L record is 4 games below 500 and the Cowboys haven't made the playoffs a single time during that period.
Three recurring themes: (1) looking only at elimination games while ignoring what got the team into those games, (2)using popular opinion to try to refute facts, and (3)using a team stat to judge an individual.
 

PA Cowboy Fan

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Don't get me wrong I like Romo.. but he is who he is..... Again, fans who support Romo are forced to use stats to prove their points...because Romo does not have the SuperBowl or Playoff wins on his resume.......the beauty of stats is, they can be used to support whatever argument the author wants to share.

Below is another media outlet providing a common public opinion about Romo (Stats vs Simplicity)
T-8. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys

A few evaluators questioned whether Romo had the mind-set to play at the highest level consistently. It's a familiar refrain in league circles, a feeling that Romo is an undisciplined QB playing for an undisciplined organization with a poorly constructed roster.

"People want to knock him," one GM responded, "but the guy has talent and is one of the top 10 starters in the league."

Romo is 34 years old and coming off back surgery, but he still could be in line for a "monster" season, one evaluator said. "But I absolutely believe they will not win big with him. As soon as he decides it's a clutch moment, his brain goes elsewhere. He loses focus and tries to create something."
And that is who Romo is. He's a good QB that can win games in this league but in the big games, he panics sometimes.
 

percyhoward

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Don't get me wrong I like Romo.. but he is who he is..... Again, fans who support Romo are forced to use stats to prove their points...because Romo does not have the SuperBowl or Playoff wins on his resume.......the beauty of stats is, they can be used to support whatever argument the author wants to share.

Below is another media outlet providing a common public opinion about Romo (Stats vs Simplicity)
T-8. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys

A few evaluators questioned whether Romo had the mind-set to play at the highest level consistently. It's a familiar refrain in league circles, a feeling that Romo is an undisciplined QB playing for an undisciplined organization with a poorly constructed roster.

"People want to knock him," one GM responded, "but the guy has talent and is one of the top 10 starters in the league."

Romo is 34 years old and coming off back surgery, but he still could be in line for a "monster" season, one evaluator said. "But I absolutely believe they will not win big with him. As soon as he decides it's a clutch moment, his brain goes elsewhere. He loses focus and tries to create something."

The plays themselves will always tell you more than what anybody says about them.
 

rcaldw

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The plays themselves will always tell you more than what anybody says about them.

That's not true, and that's why we keep seeing these stats threads. Numbers can tell you SOMETHING but they can't tell you EVERYTHING. They can't tell you about the frenetic way that Romo plays in certain situations. We have all seen it, whether we like to admit it or not. Its just true, and a billion numbers can't make it untrue. These aren't Cowboyszone fans saying these things. One of the quotes you were responding to was an NFL scout. The others are people paid to evaluate NFL players. We all know you're a huge Romo fan. I'm absolutely fine with that. You think he's elite. So do some other NFL talent evaluators. You think his numbers back you up. Maybe one day Romo will prove they do? I trust my own eyes. I see a guy with a lot of talent who (exactly as the scout said) has his brain go somewhere else in some of the biggest moments. I don't care about stats champions. I care about my favorite team winning football games again. I think we can do it with Tony. I want us to do it with Tony. I'll be in front of the TV for 16 more games this year rooting for Tony. But I know what I'm seeing, and I'm hoping this is the year it changes.
 

zack

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Sounds like Peyton Manning. I'll take it.

For the several guys on this board and you know who you are....

One question for you all? Since you all despise him, do you root for or against Tony Romo on game day? Remember he is a part of the team so don't say I just root for the Dallas Cowboys.
 

Super_Kazuya

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For the several guys on this board and you know who you are....

One question for you all? Since you all despise him, do you root for or against Tony Romo on game day? Remember he is a part of the team so don't say I just root for the Dallas Cowboys.

I don't see how they can. They will lie and say they do, but I don't see how they can spend this much time piling on him but then on gameday root for him. It's like some of the situations you find yourself in when playing fantasy football. They want the Cowboys to win, but they want Romo to play as bad as possible. And if we lose, they want him to be as much to blame as possible.
 

DallasEast

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Anyone who blames Romo for this teams issues has there head under a rock.
I'm not so sure the positioning of everyone's head applies with your analogy. Have you ever noticed cowboyvic's avatar?
 
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