Mahomes is great, but should not be talked amongst Brady or even Montana

[McKDaddy]

Mahomes is changing the game of football. Transcendent player. Generational player. He’s the combination of an elite NFL passer and an elite NBA point guard. Never been an NFL QB like him. Dude’s amazing.

This dude gets it.

 

[McKDaddy]

No. This era for QBs is just far too easy - so easy we have players like Dak and Jackson either in the running or winning MVP.

Montana was great throughout his career in the 80s and early 90s. Brady played through like 3 eras of football and stayed at the top. Mahomes has played in a league where the rules are built around the QB getting big plays, a lot of yard, and a lot of TDs with low turnovers. It's why the league is becoming a bore.

I completely agree that the numbers being put up nowadays are quite misleading as regards QB play.

However, I've been an avid fan since the mid-late 70's so I've seen my fair share of NFL football & QB's. I see him do things that only the elite of the elite have done before. I just ask that you don't discount his greatness due to the era.

 

[1942willys]

I completely agree that the numbers being put up nowadays are quite misleading as regards QB play.

However, I've been an avid fan since the mid-late 70's so I've seen my fair share of NFL football & QB's. I see him do things that only the elite of the elite have done before. I just ask that you don't discount his greatness due to the era.

I think the closest I saw in the past was Steve Young who was a great athlete and a great QB. And he did it back when it was a lot tougher. But I agree that Mahoones is one of a kind beyond a doubt

 

[mattjames2010]

I completely agree that the numbers being put up nowadays are quite misleading as regards QB play.

However, I've been an avid fan since the mid-late 70's so I've seen my fair share of NFL football & QB's. I see him do things that only the elite of the elite have done before. I just ask that you don't discount his greatness due to the era.

What has Mahomes done that Brett Favre didn't do in his back to back MVP seasons in the 90s? How about Aaron Rodgers? (Talking individual play not team accomplishments)

Mahomes is a gunslinger in a league that allows gunslingers to sling it with less risk.

 

[1942willys]

What has Mahomes done that Brett Favre didn't do in his back to back MVP seasons in the 90s? How about Aaron Rodgers? (Talking individual play not team accomplishments)

Mahomes is a gunslinger in a league that allows gunslingers to sling it with less risk.

he is simply better than both. More athletic than rodgers and is not the interception machine Favre was

 

[mattjames2010]

he is simply better than both. More athletic than rodgers and is not the interception machine Favre was

Aaron Rodgers was an athletic QB early in his career - he was throwing darts on the run lol

But if we are bringing up athletics, how about Roger Stabauch or Steve Young? Young's 1994 season is still the greatest QB season of all time when you adjust and that was in an era where QBs actually had some resistance.

I'm still not seeing what makes Patrick Mahomes leaps and bounds better than legendary QBs other than the rules benefiting his style of play.

 

[1942willys]

Aaron Rodgers was an athletic QB early in his career - he was throwing darts on the run lol

But if we are bringing up athletics, how about Roger Stabauch or Steve Young? Young's 1994 season is still the greatest QB season of all time when you adjust and that was in an era where QBs actually had some resistance.

I'm still not seeing what makes Patrick Mahomes leaps and bounds better than legendary QBs other than the rules benefiting his style of play.

just because you claim things are said does not make it so; and your opinion is worth no more than mine.
Rodges is NOT the athlete Mahoones is. Never was. Now as regards roger and young, different eras but Young is still the best overall athlete and QB. Roger was a fairly small QB when you get right down to it; he could not take the punishment Young could. That was before the Refs were protecting the QB like they do now; especially when Roger was playing.
What Mahoones does better than anyone I have ever seen was improvise and overcome things. TO be blunt Young at his best and Mahoones now is probably a near draw. And Mahoones might get better; frightening thought though that may be.

 

[mattjames2010]

just because you claim things are said does not make it so; and your opinion is worth no more than mine.
Rodges is NOT the athlete Mahoones is. Never was. Now as regards roger and young, different eras but Young is still the best overall athlete and QB. Roger was a fairly small QB when you get right down to it; he could not take the punishment Young could. That was before the Refs were protecting the QB like they do now; especially when Roger was playing.
What Mahoones does better than anyone I have ever seen was improvise and overcome things. TO be blunt Young at his best and Mahoones now is probably a near draw. And Mahoones might get better; frightening thought though that may be.

Not sure what you are referring to in your first sentence. But whatever. I am asking for something to back up the "he's changing the game". And what the hell are you judging Mahomes ahtletics on? Neither Rodgers nor Mahomes are scrambling QBs, they had the ability to get yards on their feet when they needed to and Rodgers did that early in his career. Rodgers was also a great QB outside the pocket. Rodgers had multiple 300 yard rushing seasons in his career and had 3 seasons with 4 or more TDs on the ground. Mahomes had slightly more rushing yards than Rodgers through their first 6 years starting, but it's not that far off to suggest one has greater athletic ability.

But again the claim is that he's "changing the game". I just don't see it - he's a great talent and a future HOF, but changing the game? Mahomes may be ahead of the pack, but we're in the era of QBs. He has 3 MVPs and freakin' Lamar Jackson has 2. We're in such a drastically different era right now for QBs that there is almost no way to compare them to past QBs due to the rules.

 

[1942willys]

Not sure what you are referring to in your first sentence. But whatever. I am asking for something to back up the "he's changing the game". And what the hell are you judging Mahomes ahtletics on? Neither Rodgers nor Mahomes are scrambling QBs, they had the ability to get yards on their feet when they needed to and Rodgers did that early in his career. Rodgers was also a great QB outside the pocket. Rodgers had multiple 300 yard rushing seasons in his career and had 3 seasons with 4 or more TDs on the ground. Mahomes had slightly more rushing yards than Rodgers through their first 6 years starting, but it's not that far off to suggest one has greater athletic ability.

But again the claim is that he's "changing the game". I just don't see it - he's a great talent and a future HOF, but changing the game? Mahomes may be ahead of the pack, but we're in the era of QBs. He has 3 MVPs and freakin' Lamar Jackson has 2. We're in such a drastically different era right now for QBs that there is almost no way to compare them to past QBs due to the rules.

I never said anything about changing the game and that is of course only obvious years later. Outside of a few examples Like Bob Hayes, not many change the game. And even then not hugely though it was significant.
And I remember watching Roger; and Young and others. I am comparing Mahoones to them. Rodgers was not that great an athlete; that is measured by more than rushing yards. What Mahoones does is beyond what Rodgers could do outside the pocket. I can see people have their prejudices; you clearly do not like mahoones. Frankly I did not like Young or Rodgers. Actually, the only great QB I liked outside of Roger was Montana; and maybe that is more because I am a Notre Dame fan; actually longer than I have been a cowboys fan. ND fan in 69, Cowboys fan in 70. I remember when people were raving about Fran Tarkenton, who I always thought was over rated. In the 70's the one QB I would have taken if I could not have Roger was Ken Anderson, a terribly under rated QB. Doomed to be part of the AFC central during the Steelers Glory Years. I speak as someone who has seen them all in those 60+ years. The most athletic QB was Young; the most precise QB was ANdrson; the QBs that always having you believe you had a shot was Roger and Montana; in the years later Elway needed a lot more of a team to WIn the SB but got to the SB with mediocre teams.
Marino was one of the very best passers I ever saw; but somehow fell a little short. Just like Peyton Manning; never shinning in the Playoffs or SB. Favre was fun to watch but threw way too many unnecessary picks. Brady and Bellicek made the greatest QB Coach combo since Paul Brown and Otto Graham; and surpassed them. Rodgers whom I admit I really do not like, I kind of think was just not as fortunate in his teams and coaches. Mahoones has something I have not really seen since Staubach and Montana; the ability to make his team mates thing they are never truly out of it. He is a magician; that playoff game against the Bills when Allen played great and Mahoones just a little better made me what Mahoones closely; and this last SB was just the latest instance of him having an edge over anyone playing now; and equal to anyone in the past.

 

[McKDaddy]

What has Mahomes done that Brett Favre didn't do in his back to back MVP seasons in the 90s? How about Aaron Rodgers? (Talking individual play not team accomplishments)

Mahomes is a gunslinger in a league that allows gunslingers to sling it with less risk.

Brett had physical abilities but not the mental side of the game. He was addicted to making the wow play when his team just needed him not to make a mistake which he did far too often.

AR is as close as I've seen. I listed him as a possible comp in a post. No doubt he could do many of the same things.

Mahomes gets it done in such impossible ways sometimes though that I feel he's the gold standard.

 

[mattjames2010]

Brett had physical abilities but not the mental side of the game. He was addicted to making the wow play when his team just needed him not to make a mistake which he did far too often.

AR is as close as I've seen. I listed him as a possible comp in a post. No doubt he could do many of the same things.

Mahomes gets it done in such impossible ways sometimes though that I feel he's the gold standard.

Brett Favre played good enough football to help his team to a Super Bowl and won 3 MVPs in a row lol He was THE guy just like Mahomes is THE guy. Difference being here, Mahomes isn't going up against the 90s Cowboys and 49ers. There is no equivalent to those teams in the modern NFL because NFL rules don't allow for it.

Mahomes is a great player being elevated, as are many other QBs, by shoddy NFL rules and restrictions on the defensive side of the ball. Your really think Mahomes would have the stats he has now if he played in the 90s?

 

[McKDaddy]

Brett Favre played good enough football to help his team to a Super Bowl and won 3 MVPs in a row lol He was THE guy just like Mahomes is THE guy. Difference being here, Mahomes isn't going up against the 90s Cowboys and 49ers. There is no equivalent to those teams in the modern NFL because NFL rules don't allow for it.

Mahomes is a great player being elevated, as are many other QBs, by shoddy NFL rules and restrictions on the defensive side of the ball. Your really think Mahomes would have the stats he has now if he played in the 90s?

No doubt it was a different era and that does make for some difficulties when evaluating players. I am simply saying I would take the talent of Mahomes in any era. I have great respect for a great many QB's but if you gave me the choice of QB's, it would be Mahomes.

 

[Flamma]

What has Mahomes done that Brett Favre didn't do in his back to back MVP seasons in the 90s? How about Aaron Rodgers? (Talking individual play not team accomplishments)

Mahomes is a gunslinger in a league that allows gunslingers to sling it with less risk.

I hated Brett Favre. I was so happy he was never a Cowboy. He was one of the most reckless QBs with the football I have ever seen. Mahomes is miles better than Favre ever was.

Back in 2007 the only reason the Packers were in that game was because Favre got hurt and Rodgers came in. If Favre doesn't get hurt, that game is a blowout.

 

[mattjames2010]

I hated Brett Favre. I was so happy he was never a Cowboy. He was one of the most reckless QBs with the football I have ever seen. Mahomes is miles better than Favre ever was.

Back in 2007 the only reason the Packers were in that game was because Favre got hurt and Rodgers came in. If Favre doesn't get hurt, that game is a blowout.

Favre became reckless later in his career. And you can hate Favre but he was THE QB of the 90s with 3 MVPs back to back to back. His issue is that he had to face off against 49ers and Cowboys and then rant into the Denver buzzsaw in his second Super Bowl appearance.

And again, Mahomes is playing in a much more pass oriented league. The last 3 seasons, Mahomes has thrown 13, 12, and 14 INTs. Favre during his 3 year MVP stretch had 13, 13, and 16 INTs. I just don't see Mahomes as this sports changing QB that was claimed earlier,

 

[1942willys]

Favre became reckless later in his career. And you can hate Favre but he was THE QB of the 90s with 3 MVPs back to back to back. His issue is that he had to face off against 49ers and Cowboys and then rant into the Denver buzzsaw in his second Super Bowl appearance.

And again, Mahomes is playing in a much more pass oriented league. The last 3 seasons, Mahomes has thrown 13, 12, and 14 INTs. Favre during his 3 year MVP stretch had 13, 13, and 16 INTs. I just don't see Mahomes as this sports changing QB that was claimed earlier,

I love it when someone hates another player so much he gets consumed with trying to convince others he is right

 

[mattjames2010]

I love it when someone hates another player so much he gets consumed with trying to convince others he is right

I don't hate Mahomes and I am asking for the claim made earlier to be backed up.

This is a forum, back and forths is kinda what keeps this place going. Didn't know suddenly everyone, who spends more time on her than me, were suddenly against this.

 

[Flamma]

Favre became reckless later in his career. And you can hate Favre but he was THE QB of the 90s with 3 MVPs back to back to back. His issue is that he had to face off against 49ers and Cowboys and then rant into the Denver buzzsaw in his second Super Bowl appearance.

And again, Mahomes is playing in a much more pass oriented league. The last 3 seasons, Mahomes has thrown 13, 12, and 14 INTs. Favre during his 3 year MVP stretch had 13, 13, and 16 INTs. I just don't see Mahomes as this sports changing QB that was claimed earlier,

From watching him over the years, his biggest issue was hero ball. He played way better when his team was close or ahead.

There was an interesting statistic I heard during a game where he was with the Jets or Vikings, I forget which. They just came back to win a game after being down by 14 points. They said he never did that in the regular season with his entire time with the Packers.