Making a Murderer

[DogFace]

Avery is 100% guilty but the series was a fascinating look at a murder trial from the defendant's POV.

I don't think we have ever had this much access to the mind of a a murderer before, during and after the crime.

To me the first case was bad luck mixed a terrible reputation and rush to judgement. But it is hard to fault the system when the victim gives a photo ID and a line-up ID. A jury will convict on that alone 99 out of 100 times.

He was the only person in the photo Id and the line up. The cop also drew a picture of Avery from his Id.
It was really cute though when he framed that picture along with Avery's picture.

The innocence project director is taking his case and he'll be freed based on the evidence.

 

[DogFace]

The Defense knew this and cleared them. They actually preferred the guy that was a volunteer sheriff because he said he would report other cops. That is what they built there whole case on.

The Defense also decided against going for a mistrial when a juror had to leave on the first day of deliberations because their child was in an accident or something. They preferred seating an alternate juror.

The defense didn't know at least one juror felt intimidated by the police. That will be public soon.

 

[CATCH17]

He had to do 10 years for the firearms charge alone. He was a 2 time felon and was not allowed to have firearms.

The same with first 18 years. He was serving 6 years concurrently for running his female cousin off the road and pulling a gun on her. She begged for her life because her 6 month daughter was in the car and would freeze to death.

The guy deserves no sympathy. He just got railroaded once. But he couldn't even control himself knowing he had millions coming.

None of this proves that he murdered that girl.


All of these things make me feel like he did commit the murder but it's more because it look's like and smells like a rat.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

As soon as I saw Brenden's lawyer, I knew that kid was in trouble. Dude looks like a real life Fix it Felix.

 

[Nightman]

He was the only person in the photo Id and the line up. The cop also drew a picture of Avery from his Id.
It was really cute though when he framed that picture along with Avery's picture.

The innocence project director is taking his case and he'll be freed based on the evidence.

We all know he didn't do the first one. It doesn't give a "commit a free murder" card.
The two cases have nothing to do with each other.

He was innocent of one and guilty of the murder.
He will not be freed this time. He had a competent and vigorous defense.

 

[Nightman]

As soon as I saw Brenden's lawyer, I knew that kid was in trouble. Dude looks like a real life Fix it Felix.

I thought of Jerry Lundegaard from Fargo. You betcha!

 

[Nightman]

None of this proves that he murdered that girl.


All of these things make me feel like he did commit the murder but it's more because it look's like and smells like a rat.

Her bones, car, DNA. burnt phone and camera were all found in his yard.
He was the last person to see her. She made or received no calls after meeting him.
He talked about making a rape dungeon that last time he was in jail and they found leg irons and handcuffs in his room.
He had a .22 rifle, the same model that killed her.

It is a slam dunk, 100% guilty.

 

[CATCH17]

Her bones, car, DNA. burnt phone and camera were all found in his yard.
He was the last person to see her. She made or received no calls after meeting him.
He talked about making a rape dungeon that last time he was in jail and they found leg irons and handcuffs in his room.
He had a .22 rifle, the same model that killed her.

It is a slam dunk, 100% guilty.

Last person to see her doesn't mean he did it.

The bones, dna, and camera thing could've been the police or the other person who might've done it.

The dungeon thing was told by an ex-inmate and I take that with a grain of salt considering he could receive less time if he were to give the police something they wanted to hear.

The .22 rifle could've just been more police tampering.



The guy who hacked into her phone and then forgot the password could've easily been the killer or the guy who saw 10 foot flames but at the time said the flames were 3 feet could've done it as well.


It's not clear cut.

 

[Nightman]

Last person to see her doesn't mean he did it.

The bones, dna, and camera thing could've been the police or the other person who might've done it.

The dungeon thing was told by an ex-inmate and I take that with a grain of salt considering he could receive less time if he were to give the police something they wanted to hear.

The .22 rifle could've just been more police tampering.



The guy who hacked into her phone and then forgot the password could've easily been the killer or the guy who saw 10 foot flames but at the time said the flames were 3 feet could've done it as well.


It's not clear cut.

Everything you mentioned is a defense attorney's dream. None of it based in reality. You are literally just naming people you saw in the series and calling them murderers.

Cops planting evidence and moving bones, c'mon.

Even in his first case he was put away because of an eyewitness that ID'ed from a lineup. The Cops didn't plant any evidence. They suspected him because he was, even back then, a violent felon.

He was getting 10 years for the rifle alone. As a felon he can't own a weapon and he had 2. They didn't need to plant any evidence to send him away.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Cops planting evidence and moving bones, c'mon.

I can't believe that many think the cops are or were more like to assassinate this young woman than Avery doing it.

That's just stunning to me.

 

[Nightman]

I can't believe that many think the cops are or were more like to assassinate this young woman than Avery doing it.

That's just stunning to me.

I understand the series presented a one-sided picture but the idea that 100s of thousands of people think he should be pardoned is scary.

Just think of how much these Sheriffs stood to lose if they got caught planting evidence. First they would lose their jobs and go to jail. Then they would be sued for another 100m dollars. And they would possible screw up the case against the 'real' killer.

They were supposedly planting evidence before a body was even found. The girl could have run away or been killed in another State and they were rushing out to plant Avery's blood that probably had EDTA in it.

It makes zero sense.

 

[CATCH17]

Everything you mentioned is a defense attorney's dream. None of it based in reality. You are literally just naming people you saw in the series and calling them murderers.

Cops planting evidence and moving bones, c'mon.

Even in his first case he was put away because of an eyewitness that ID'ed from a lineup. The Cops didn't plant any evidence. They suspected him because he was, even back then, a violent felon.

He was getting 10 years for the rifle alone. As a felon he can't own a weapon and he had 2. They didn't need to plant any evidence to send him away.

36 million dollars on the line.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

36 million dollars on the line.

Municipalities are sued all the time... all the time.

The money would come out of insurance.

And it's not likely jobs would be lost in the dept.

The planning it would take to "assassinate" this young woman would be very complicated... and unrealistic.

 

[Nightman]

36 million dollars on the line.

That is a red herring.

First off it doesn't go away just because he gets charged. He was never getting 36m. 5m tops.He settled for 400k.

Secondly, the town and the County were liable, not the individual people. They weren't closing the Sheriff's Dept so no one was losing their jobs. I know the "movie" said the insurers weren't going to pay but that is what they always say. They did in fact pay for the settlement.

Third, Lenk and Colburn had very little to do with the civil case. They weren't risking it all to frame a guy that couldn't stay out of trouble. Like I said, he was getting up to 10 years just for the rifle charges.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That is a red herring.

First off it doesn't go away just because he gets charged. He was never getting 36m. 5m tops.He settled for 400k.

Secondly, the town and the County were liable, not the individual people. They weren't closing the Sheriff's Dept so no one was losing their jobs. I know the "movie" said the insurers weren't going to pay but that is what they always say. They did in fact pay for the settlement.

Third, Lenk and Colburn had very little to do with the civil case. They weren't risking it all to frame a guy that couldn't stay out of trouble. Like I said, he was getting up to 10 years just for the rifle charges.

Even if the insurance didn't pay, the municipalities file bankruptcy and that's that. Again, no jobs are lost. And it's not like folks in the dept. couldn't get jobs anywhere else.

The entire $36 mil threat isn't nearly strong-enough to force a group of individuals who probably never murdered anyone before to randomly pick out an innocent young woman and kill her.

 

[Nightman]

Even if the insurance didn't pay, the municipalities file bankruptcy and that's that. Again, no jobs are lost. And it's not like folks in the dept. couldn't get jobs anywhere else.

The entire $36 mil threat isn't nearly strong-enough to force a group of individuals who probably never murdered anyone before to randomly pick out an innocent young woman and kill her.

Exactly and cops deal with families and individuals all the time that are repeat offenders and that have sued the department. They don't frame them when they can't stop committing crimes on their own.

Steve Avery was born to serve time and he was living up to his destiny. Even during the 18 years he was wrongfully jailed, the first 6 years were being served concurrent for his 2nd felony conviction. So even if he was never falsely charged with rape he was going away for pulling a gun on his cousin.

 

[DogFace]

We all know he didn't do the first one. It doesn't give a "commit a free murder" card.
The two cases have nothing to do with each other.

He was innocent of one and guilty of the murder.
He will not be freed this time. He had a competent and vigorous defense.

The same sheriff department that committed several errors in the first one, not to mention let him sit in jail several more years after they were told it was likely that they had the wrong person in jail, was involved with both cases. The two cases are absolutely related and that's why that department was supposed to not be involved with much of the 2nd investigation.

 

[Kevinicus]

I can't believe that many think the cops are or were more like to assassinate this young woman than Avery doing it.

That's just stunning to me.

I don't know a lot about this case, but I notice you keep bringing this up, despite the fact that I haven't seen anyone make this claim except for people defending the prosecution. I don't get where it comes from.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The two cases are absolutely related and that's why that department was supposed to not be involved with much of the 2nd investigation.

That's easier said than done in a rural area.

On top of that you've got missing/murdered woman, which certainly isn't the norm for many rural police jurisdictions.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't know a lot about this case, but I notice you keep bringing this up, despite the fact that I haven't seen anyone make this claim except for people defending the prosecution. I don't get where it comes from.

I apologize for making the connection here... If you wander away from this forum and visit many of the sites about the case that allow comments you'll find a great many that point the finger directly at the law as being her murderer.