Manny Lawson on Sirius

[Big Country]

I chill just went up my spine, seriously

www.helpwithvowels.com:D

JKdg

 

[playit12]

Brilliant being a relative term for NFL prospects... I dont think anyone in the draft qualifies for mensa, but you have to remember they dont take those Wonderlic tests very serious unless your a QB, so I doubt he prepped for it at all. How many NFL players have earned a degree in engineering? Its just a relative term againt his peers at the OLB position.

Well that I can agree with. I wouldn't give too much weight to the idea of prepping by the way. Unless prepping includes getting the answers before the test (which history suggest it sometimes does - Akali Smith, Jason Cambell) then test scores shouldn't be dramatically different either way. Test writters take great pains to make exams that test the intrinsic abilities of a person and not their preparation. I think teams look for high scores in more than just QB by the way... I'd want it for QB, Center, TE, FS, SS, and MLB at the least. All those positions require a great deal of pre and post snap recognition and their weekly game prepping reflects this. The Wonderlic is designed to measure a players ability to quickly learn new information, which seems right on par with the needs of those positions.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

but also getting your point across to people effectively.

ah, enunciation

 

[Bob Sacamano]

www.helpwithvowels.com

JKdg

D'OH!

 

[adbutcher]

Thanks for that info.....I have been singing Lawson at #18 for two months now....but, I am scared he will go to Cleveland.

You are not alone.

 

[RCowboyFan]

ah, enunciation

Hehe, that too I guess

 

[Mr. Fantasy]

I caught some of this interview as well. Pat Kirwan spoke to Parcells about Lawson at some point and asked him if he (Lawson) reminded him of Carl Banks and he said yes but Lawson was faster. Toward the end of the conversation, Pat said he envisions Manny being drafted by the Boys and playing opposite of Ware this year and asked him what he thought about that. Manny said he could picture him and Ware slapping a high-five together after a play. Sorry i didnt catch word for word but that's all i remember.

 

[Sitting Bull]

I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions (some of which were provided above) just that last year when I tried to informally collect some sort of statistical anaylysis I found that the numbers were so heavily skewed to be considered very suspicious. I polled (I believe) three different websites that collected scouting reports on pre-draft players and measured the incidence of "well spoken" vs race in both the samples as a whole and for specific positions. Black players overwhemingly were given the tag compared to white players.

That you have a different definition of "well spoken" is fine and assuming it becomes consistent enough across scouts to be considered the norm in interpretation, that would be good. But I haven't found that to be the case, and considering the discrepencies in usuage, I think the numbers suggest that either a much greater percentage of black players entering the league are "speaking intelligently and thoughtfully" or that scouts aren't currently using it that way either.

(for those that would reply, It's what I think the word means and I'll use is that way, remember that English, unlike French, is a fluid language that is defined by it's standard usuage and not by an organized body. What most people think the word means is the best definition of what the word actually means.)

Perhaps in a few years I"ll take some time and rerun my searches on the then incomming draft class to see if things have changed.

Good God. Way to hijack a perfectly good Manny Lawson thread with a bunch of lame, dimestore race rhetoric.

Yes, there are racists in our midsts who may call a black player "well-spoken" as a back-handed compliment. Your blanket generalization is equally offensive to me. If I recall, black players make up 70 percent of the NFL. Maybe that's why your "analysis" indicates a majority of "well-spoken" comments are pinned on black players. Or maybe not.

As the Wonderlic proves year after year, football players can be alarmingly dumb. We know that more than a few draft prospects drop like rocks each year after coming off like idiots in personal interviews. Throw in the canned sports cliche soundbytes, so often delivered in the monotone flatline that Shaq perfected, and it's no crime that some scouts/fans take note when a prospect can actually communicate effectively. I'm no scout, but as someone who studies draft prospects closely, I noticed that Matt Jones (white-guy) talked like the ******** Southern cousin of Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High (I still loved him as a prospect). Likewise, I was impressed with Danieal Manning in this clip, http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&videoID=1173 which erased concerns I had about his failure to get into a D1 college out of high school. A player's ability to communicate is a one important measure of his intelligence, and at certain positions, intelligence matters. A lot. That makes it noteworthy, no matter what color the player is.

Bottomline, why foul up a perfectly good Lawson thread with a lazy, half-baked "racist-scout" theory? I say, "Opinion Zone"...

and Happy Friday...

 

[DBoys]

meh...no.

Troy is one of the most well-spoken athletes around. Just because he doesn't constantly go for the laughs

BTW, as with Zimmer, Payton doesn't sound like I expected.* He sounds like a tough, well-spoken football coach. Actually, wasn't Payton sort of a Jon Gruden protege at Philly? Sean sounds a lot like Chucky.

Emmitt is a smart guy, but not very well-spoken... I wish him luck, but I don't see him as being well-received...Woody, on the other hand, will do a great job...

playit got knocked dah $%^& out

 

[Clove]

Good God. Way to hijack a perfectly good Manny Lawson thread with a bunch of lame, dimestore race rhetoric.

Yes, there are racists in our midsts who may call a black player "well-spoken" as a back-handed compliment. Your blanket generalization is equally offensive to me. If I recall, black players make up 70 percent of the NFL. Maybe that's why your "analysis" indicates a majority of "well-spoken" comments are pinned on black players. Or maybe not.

As the Wonderlic proves year after year, football players can be alarmingly dumb. We know that more than a few draft prospects drop like rocks each year after coming off like idiots in personal interviews. Throw in the canned sports cliche soundbytes, so often delivered in the monotone flatline that Shaq perfected, and it's no crime that some scouts/fans take note when a prospect can actually communicate effectively. I'm no scout, but as someone who studies draft prospects closely, I noticed that Matt Jones (white-guy) talked like the ******** Southern cousin of Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High (I still loved him as a prospect). Likewise, I was impressed with Danieal Manning in this clip, http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&videoID=1173 which erased concerns I had about his failure to get into a D1 college out of high school. A player's ability to communicate is a one important measure of their intelligence, and at certain positions, intelligence matters. A lot. That makes it noteworthy, no matter what color the player is.

Bottomline, you get no prize for discovering that ignorant racists walk the earth, so why foul up a perfectly good football thread with a lazy, half-baked theory?

Happy Friday...

So you agree with calling a black person well spoken but when a white person speaks proper english, nothing is said?

If you don't see the bias in that, then we can imagine you to be one of them.

His point was, stop saying blacks are well spoken as if it's a miracle blacks can speak proper english. That's all..... And on the other hand, if a white guy can run real fast, then the people shouldn't say, "wow, he can run for a white guy". We all need to just ****, and love each other and stop the non-sense.

And one more thing that gets on my nerves is comparisons to race. I hate it when someone says that Dirk Nowitzki reminds me of Larry Bird, or Vince Young reminds me of Randall Cunningham. IMO, Vince Young reminds me of Steve Young, and Jim Kelly and Warren Moon remind me of eachother.

"Rant concluded, you may return to the topic now"

 

[bobbie brewskie]

Man if we could get him in the 1st and Jason Allen in the 2nd. An OL in the 3rd. Good draft.

how bout spencer or latui in round 2, and allen in round 3. its gonna happen, dont think im crazy.

 

[DBoys]

So you agree with calling a black person well spoken but when a white person speaks proper english, nothing is said?

If you don't see the bias in that, then we can imagine you to be one of them.

His point was, stop saying blacks are well spoken as if it's a miracle blacks can speak proper english. That's all..... And on the other hand, if a white guy can run real fast, then the people shouldn't say, "wow, he can run for a white guy". We all need to just ****, and love each other and stop the non-sense.

And one more thing that gets on my nerves is comparisons to race. I hate it when someone says that Dirk Nowitzki reminds me of Larry Bird, or Vince Young reminds me of Randall Cunningham. IMO, Vince Young reminds me of Steve Young, and Jim Kelly and Warren Moon remind me of eachother.

"Rant concluded, you may return to the topic now"

Come on man get a grip. You know why racism bothers people? Because of insecurity. If people were secure they wouldn't give a rip what anyone else says or thinks.

 

[Rack]

Well spoken is well spoken. Gimme a break with the race crap.



I've criticized the way Peyton Manning talks numerous times. He's one of the worst spoken athletes in professional sports.

Fact is a lot of athletes sound like idiots. It also just so happens that most athletes are black. But, like I just said, it's an athlete thing, IMO, not a black thing.


If a guy is well spoken, I'll point it out. If he sounds like an idiot I'll point that out too. Race doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[playit12]

Yes, there are racists in our midsts who may call a black player "well-spoken" as a back-handed compliment. Your blanket generalization is equally offensive to me. If I recall, black players make up 70 percent of the NFL. Maybe that's why your "analysis" indicates a majority of "well-spoken" comments are pinned on black players. Or maybe not.

I'm not new to statistics, I took into account the percentage of black vs white players. I was careful to say in my response that the issue was the percentage of players and not the total number. I also took into consdiration posisitional inequalities (expectations of players being more or less intelligent per position) and the fact that those positions have very different race percentages, but additionally comparing numbers per some select positions independent of the total group. The results were the same.

Bottomline, why foul up a perfectly good Lawson thread with a lazy, half-baked "racist-scout" theory? I say, "Opinion Zone"...

and Happy Friday...

I didn't feel like starting a whole thread on the matter. I think people are capable of communicating more than one thought at a time in the thread, and I think added discussion of his actual intelligence, like the later post about his major and wonderlic score, add something to the discussion.

I generally take pains to make my post thoughtful. You are welcome to sift through my history in this regard. I don't think the observations were lazy or half baked and measuring the mounds of data I collected in coming to that conclusion seem to support that.

In the years that I have a been a member of this board I have only brought up this singular racism issue. Once back during last years draft and once now. I only do so now because I find it a bit frustrating. If you want to break down my method of comparison, with something a bit more penetrating than if I took the total number of white and black players into consideration, then you are welcome too. Better yet, do you own statistical analysis and see what you find. Otherwise, blanket statements about my ability collect and interpret data seem equally offensive.

 

[playit12]

If you don't mind me asking are you black?

No I don't mind... I'm white and white can be.

I don't really get too involved in various white/black issues, but I do care about semantics. This issue only caught my attention because I was reading through so many pre-draft reports and thought the wording of well spoken seemed weird. I started to noticed when and how it was used and that's what sparked me to collect the data. In the end it bothered me a little that it seemed like a subtle racism, but it bothered me more because it wasn't an equal oppertunity measurement. I want player analysis to be equal for all players. Basically I want the terms to mean the same for each person so that I can compare each player without looking to see if they are white or black. The scientist in me is more offended by this issue than the socialist (I guess that would be the word?). I guess the best analogy would be the term speedy. If a draft guru calls a black reciever speedy because he runs a 4.3 and a white reciever speedy if can run a 4.5 then the term speedy doesn't mean much to someone trying to find out the talent level of the players. Same thing for well spoken in my mind (though admitadly not as important).

edit: I guess the comment I'm replying too got deleted... oh well. Guess sensitivities run deep.

 

[playit12]

anyway, not that I"m running out of the conversation but my wife is going to kill me if I am any later.

 

[Sitting Bull]

Too bad that Cornish83's positive, patently-inoffensive post about Manny Lawson triggered more comments about race and statistics than it did about his vision of lining up next to Ware. Go Cowboys...

 

[ghst187]

Good God. Way to hijack a perfectly good Manny Lawson thread with a bunch of lame, dimestore race rhetoric.

Yes, there are racists in our midsts who may call a black player "well-spoken" as a back-handed compliment. Your blanket generalization is equally offensive to me. If I recall, black players make up 70 percent of the NFL. Maybe that's why your "analysis" indicates a majority of "well-spoken" comments are pinned on black players. Or maybe not.

As the Wonderlic proves year after year, football players can be alarmingly dumb. We know that more than a few draft prospects drop like rocks each year after coming off like idiots in personal interviews. Throw in the canned sports cliche soundbytes, so often delivered in the monotone flatline that Shaq perfected, and it's no crime that some scouts/fans take note when a prospect can actually communicate effectively. I'm no scout, but as someone who studies draft prospects closely, I noticed that Matt Jones (white-guy) talked like the ******** Southern cousin of Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High (I still loved him as a prospect). Likewise, I was impressed with Danieal Manning in this clip, http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&videoID=1173 which erased concerns I had about his failure to get into a D1 college out of high school. A player's ability to communicate is a one important measure of his intelligence, and at certain positions, intelligence matters. A lot. That makes it noteworthy, no matter what color the player is.

Bottomline, why foul up a perfectly good Lawson thread with a lazy, half-baked "racist-scout" theory? I say, "Opinion Zone"...

and Happy Friday...

Its time people realize that the only color 90% of Americans care about is green. Think green before you think black and white next time and a situation will probably make more sense.
Race is such a tired issue that would fail to be an issue 9x out of 10 if some would stop using it to get their way. Not to mention that the door swings both ways.
Other issues aside....I would love to get Lawson but I would be just as happy with Carpenter...maybe even Wimbley if I had seen him play more. Perhaps our trade down may be using our second round pick instead of our first?

 

[Justis]

Wow.....i think i just wet myself thinking about that

yeah, that's the kinda thing that makes me want to drift off into shameless homerism, like nothing else. If we pick Lawson I don't think I could sleep all day, I'd be so excited.

 

[Manster54]

Owboutdat Manny Lawon guy?
:laugh1: