Manny Lawson overrated?

[Clove]

He has the potential to be a spectacular pass rusher, but at LB I think we need a run stopper because I got tired of watching teams run roughshod over us last year.

Run support starts up front. 2 rookies playing end, and Ferguson who was too light to play the position and did an average job. The 2nd line of defense is the ILB position that was one dimensional in James.

If we had a really big powerful NT like Ngata or Watson or even a stump like Fififta, that would change our run defense in itself. Everyone has to be involved on the running play, and not just one side of the field or one person, it's rediculous for some people to have come on here and blame one person for 1 side of the field.

 

[burmafrd]

Got this off of the draft board from a post about trunk strength.

Manny Lawson, DE/OLB, North Carolina State: Lawson is nowhere near as good an overall prospect as his teammate Mario Williams, but in terms of trunk strength, Lawson is particularly impressive for a relatively skinny 6-foot-6 and 245 pounds. How strong is Lawson's lower body? When was the last time you heard of a defensive lineman who was also a conference champion in the long jump? Lawson won the ACC indoor long jump title in 2003.

 

[peplaw06]

Here I go again (discussed on here a couple of days ago)- I've seen the guy play many times and I don't know how he got the stats he did. What I saw was a fast kid who got mauled at he line of scrimmage and over ran plays. He has the potential to be a spectacular pass rusher, but at LB I think we need a run stopper because I got tired of watching teams run roughshod over us last year.

At DE though, it's tougher to play against the run. You have to take on the OT every play. At OLB there is more space to work with, plus if the DE is taking the OT, you're getting smaller guys, TEs or pulling guards. There's no disputing that he's small for DE in the NFL, but he's big for a LB. And if he has moves to work with, he gets to use his athletic ability, and we all know he's a freak in that department.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I can see what you guys are saying with Manny as a DE, but as a OLB he will have more space to use his athleticism. Manny won't be taking on an OT every play in the 3-4. One thing that should be pointed out is we have the personnel to rotate Manny in and out based on the situation. I would like having someone of Manny's ability available when we need someone with his athleticism to get to the QB.

At this point, I really don't care who we take, whatever BP thinks is fine by me. Carpenter is the safer pick, but I do like Lawson's upside.

 

[ZRO]

Lawson has the potential to be a terror in the NFL.

The same things said about Lawson can be said about Carpenter playing with Hawk. In fact, the thing that scares me about Carpenter is most of his highlight reel plays come when he's totally untouched and freely roaming around the field, mostly because the offense is paying attention to Hawk or Schleigal.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Ware was graded as a second rounder too, until the combine/workouts.

That is incorrect. Most with some knowledge of the draft had him as a first rounder halfway through the season. Just because the internet "buzz" amongst the casual observers didn't start until the Senior Bowl and reach a cresendo until after the combine doesn't mean that he was ever a "second rounder".

 

[ddh33]

It's funny how we all go back and forth constantly on these players.

I think the tendency sometimes is to love "your" guy so much that you find reasons to like the other guy less.

In this case, if Dallas does decide that they want one of those three, I think they will have a heck of a player with any of them. All three have different styles, strengths, and weaknesses. But I think all three of them could potentially flourish in this system.

I'm not always one of those "blind faith" guys, but I have a lot of confidence in this front office. Whoever they pick, I'm sure, will be the player they feel like is the best fit for this system.

 

[btcutter]

Ware was graded as a second rounder too, until the combine/workouts.

I think there's quite a bit of difference when they are rated. Ware is from a small school with less notoriety. He rises as people watch films of his play. On the other hand, Lawson plays of a division I school with at least two other players that will be selected in the 1st two rounds. Scouts who watched Mario would have seen him play during the season but still rated him a 3rd round prospect until the combine (That's saying something!) when he had outragious workout numbers.

To me, Ware's stock was readjusted because no one knew much of the small schoool player. It happens every yr.
Lawson rise because of the combine. I am wary of this type of workout warriors....see Mamulae (Giggles) and Thomas (Jets).

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I believe he has all the tools to be as good as Ware.......and together think of all the possibilities!

 

[btcutter]

I believe he has all the tools to be as good as Ware.......and together think of all the possibilities!

There's the problem again. Got the tools but can he put the package together. There are a boat load of these players. Ware was the Mario Williams of his team and constantly got double and tripled teamed. Where as Lawson was usually 1 on 1. His meteoric rise reminds me of Simms DT from KC because he played next to Peppers at NC. Simms isn't a bad player but just not worth the 4th pick in the draft.

Of course, Ireland is paid the big $ to decide if Lawson can put it all together in the NFL.

 

[burmafrd]

His team mates thought a lot of him- since they chose him as the Def player of the year instead of WIlliams.

 

[Maxmadden]

It's funny how we all go back and forth constantly on these players.

I think the tendency sometimes is to love "your" guy so much that you find reasons to like the other guy less.

In this case, if Dallas does decide that they want one of those three, I think they will have a heck of a player with any of them. All three have different styles, strengths, and weaknesses. But I think all three of them could potentially flourish in this system.

I'm not always one of those "blind faith" guys, but I have a lot of confidence in this front office. Whoever they pick, I'm sure, will be the player they feel like is the best fit for this system.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

To say that Manny Lawson is overrated is ridiculous! The guy increased his sack total each year in college. As was mentioned earlier, he was voted by his own teammates as MVP over Mario W.

From what I saw watching the Senior Bowl, and in reading what the coaches & media saw in practice, I thought he was the second best pass rusher next to Darryl Tapp.

He blew up at the Combine. Dude ran a 4.43 at 6'-6", 240 & jumped through the roof, and across the field. The only player that ran faster at around the same size was super TE Vernon Davis.

He's a tenacious, high motor player who has great closing speed to the QB, and good upper body strength. With his work ethic & personality, all a coach has to say is, "Manny, get those calves & thighs bigger & stronger". In 6 months, they will be noticably larger.

I still personally believe the Cowboys should take Bobby Carpenter with the 18th pick. He is worth it, and fits perfectly at the strong side. He can also play the middle-something Lawson would have a hard time adjusting to.

Both are great players. Carpenter justs fits better. Plus, and this is bigger than most think, Parcells coached Bobby's dad, Rob in NY, and we all know how much credence BP puts in familiarity.

 

[Bizwah]

I'm not a Manny Lawson fan.

I think a lot in here have fallen in love with his measurables.....They are great, but there's more to being a football player than a good 40 time.

I worry about him not being physical enough. I want a LB that'll be physical.

To be honest though, I wasn't exactly thrilled about Ware either.

He turned out OK.

 

[Silverstar]

I'm not a Manny Lawson fan.

I think a lot in here have fallen in love with his measurables.....They are great, but there's more to being a football player than a good 40 time.

I worry about him not being physical enough. I want a LB that'll be physical.

To be honest though, I wasn't exactly thrilled about Ware either.

He turned out OK.

Looking at this photo, I'm a little worried too.

Talk about chicken legs.

 

[ghst187]

funny, chicken legs...
however Chris Canty is "angular"
a player is a player

but anyway, what would you guys think if we traded out of the first round completely and ended up taking Daryl Tapp for our OLB?
That dude can get after the QB for sure.

 

[big dog cowboy]

what would you guys think if we traded out of the first round completely and ended up taking Daryl Tapp for our OLB?

I'm not sure I want to go that far down. It probably won't matter because some player would have to seriously drop to us for another team to move up that far. To trade from the 2nd up 18 is going to take a lot and there simply won't be a player available at 18 for any team to want to do that.

 

[Pokes28]

Honestly, if a team that is picking in the top 5 of this year's draft wanted to trade up to our pick in the 2nd (similar to when Buffalo traded to move up two years ago), I think assuming the points are there, our brain trust should consider it. Howard or Tapp would both be just as solid in the 3-4 as OLB as most of the first round guys. This would give us more picks and a pretty good chance of having a REALLY good pick in the first round next year. The only team that I think will improve greatly this year that picks in the top 5 is Houston. I think that is just because of the coaching. I'd love for the Jets to give us their first round pick for next year. They are going to be horrid.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[Rack]

I've seen some bashing on him the past few days over here.


I never saw the guy play, but from what i've read some of the posters say he isn't as good as he's being made out to be.

I just don't see how you can be voted by your team as the defensive MVP over Williams, have good stats, great workout numbers, and still not be that highly thought of.

I think he very well could be as good as he's being made out to be. But as a WOLB, the same position Ware plays. He would NOT be effective as a SOLB next season, and maybe never. His spot should be at WOLB in a 3-4. Too bad we already have one (a WOLB).

 

[burmafrd]

If you pick Manny you are going more on potential then proven play. If you go with Carpenter its the opposite. carpenter will help us more RIGHT now- Manny will probably helpus more LATER. That is the main reason I think that we go for Carpenter. Manny will not give us the great stuff probably for a couple of years; Carpenter will give us real good stuff right now.