Many posters on this site think we may end up

[Big Country]

DT Rocky Bernard from Seattle would be great but may be too $$$

Too small... Seattle's DL is the smallish, quick first step, swarm to the ball type... Not suited for our D. Trade Glover to Seattle for a 2nd rounder if Dallas is really interested in moving him... He would fit their DL very nicely and only make it better.

Maybe Dallas can then go out and get Grady Jackson if he's available. He's a big run stuffer type lineman. But only if he can keep his weight under 785 lbs.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

cutting or trading Glover due to his high cap number this year and because he isn't the best fit in a 3-4 defense.

Let's assume that Glover is NOT on the team this coming season.

I think we HAVE to get a big wide-body NT to rotate with Fergy.

If Fergy were to get banged up again in '06, I don't see how we could successfully run the 3-4 with our current DL personnel.

I'm not sure a late round draft pick is enough insurance either. Unfortunately, Ngata will likely be gone by 18, and I'm not sold on G. Watson's dedication (according to what I've been reading about him).

I think we should go the FA route and pick up a wide body next month. Also, IF we were to cut/trade Glover, I'd imagine we would have some cap savings to contribute to shoring up this position.

Again, I think if we are going to be running the 3-4 even more in 2006 than in 2005, having Fergy as the only legitimate NT is dangerous. One injury to him and it doesn't really matter who your ILBs are . . . .

I think your concern is well warranted, but I think Parcells has an eye on THomas Johnson getting minutes at nose, and wouldn't be suprised to see him pick up one late in the draft, too much has been tied up in Ferguson to shell out top-dollar for a backup/situational player

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well, we spent a lot of time with Johnson on the roster last year, so maybe he's the backup....I know one thing...if we were to use our first pick on a NT, I'd crap. We're paying Ferguson to do the job...he needs to do it...period.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Isn't that exactly what Glover was?

big, fat, strong, sit in the hole NT's can be found all over the place...they're the 300+ pound DT's with no discipline to control their weight or no athletic ability to rush the QB...NT won't be a problem and we shouldn't waste a first day pick on one.

You can't afford that high a pick and that kind of money on a backup for the highly paid Ferguson.

too

 

[Bob Sacamano]

My guess is that Thomas Johnson is going to be able to do the same thing as Glover did. He might not be big enough for full time but he'll be fine as an NT situationally.

he's bigger than Glover

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ngata, Watson


You can't have enough young, big 3-4 Rotation guys

or money invested in one position right? :jerk:

 

[Eskimo]

or money invested in one position right? :jerk:

Parcells just invested the money poorly is all - Pat Williams would have been the better choice. Fergy is being forced to play a role that he is not built for - he just doesn't have the great size, immense power and low center of gravity required for the position. He is a good guy to play beside a pass rushing DT in a 4-3, though.

If you want to build a great 3-4, you need a NT who can stand up against a double team consistently. Fergy is not in the upper echelon of NTs and was a non-factor - he is not in the class of a Jamal Williams or a Casey Hampton. Laroi Glover, a pass-rushing DT specialist, put him on the bench for 11 games. That speaks volumes about Fergy.

The ILBs don't have to be great if the the guy in the middle is doing his job which is a good thing considering how mediocre James is and how bad the rest are.

BP's big investments in FA last year didn't fare so well. Fergy was average, Rivera was below average. Henry got injured and his manhood was questioned down the stretch (has to be a concern) even though he played well the first half of the year.

To be fair, Bledsoe was above average and Aaron Glenn was a gem.

If BP learns not to overpay (double digit signing bonuses) for 30-year olds in FAs when their bodies are falling apart, he would get better results.

 

[dwmyers]

You want a widebody NT?? So do I...

Just a widebody NT, Bear? I thought if it were your choice, we'd be widebody everywhere .

 

[dwmyers]

Parcells just invested the money poorly is all - Pat Williams would have been the better choice. Fergy is being forced to play a role that he is not built for - he just doesn't have the great size, immense power and low center of gravity required for the position. He is a good guy to play beside a pass rushing DT in a 4-3, though.

If you want to build a great 3-4, you need a NT who can stand up against a double team consistently. Fergy is not in the upper echelon of NTs and was a non-factor - he is not in the class of a Jamal Williams or a Casey Hampton. Laroi Glover, a pass-rushing DT specialist, put him on the bench for 11 games. That speaks volumes about Fergy.

The ILBs don't have to be great if the the guy in the middle is doing his job which is a good thing considering how mediocre James is and how bad the rest are.

BP's big investments in FA last year didn't fare so well. Fergy was average, Rivera was below average. Henry got injured and his manhood was questioned down the stretch (has to be a concern) even though he played well the first half of the year.

To be fair, Bledsoe was above average and Aaron Glenn was a gem.

If BP learns not to overpay (double digit signing bonuses) for 30-year olds in FAs when their bodies are falling apart, he would get better results.

The be a little more fair to BP and JJ, the situation at DT was in such wretched shape that adding Ferguson was a serious upgrade. We can complain about being average at DT/NT now, but we were far from average for years before that.

The question now is, if Glover leaves because of salary cap, what is the best course for this club? Find a replacement or play on with "Pepper" Johnson and Ferguson manning the middle?

Just my gut feeling, but if Dallas decides to target a DT, there are enough good ones that Dallas might want to trade down, oh, 5 to 10 places in the first. This crop seems to be late-first-early-second, except for Ngoti. I'm not sure there is really much difference between Gabe Watson and Roderique Wright.

David.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Pesonally I see far more important needs than a back-up NT at this point. We spend a 1st or even a 2nd on a NT and I'll be sick.

I want guys that can start at 1 or 2. ILB, OLB, FS, RT... Give me a couple guys that can start and fill immediate rolls. Heck I'd like more depth too, but the guy buying the groceries already has enough meat on the table... I want some side dishes.

 

[Eskimo]

Pesonally I see far more important needs than a back-up NT at this point. We spend a 1st or even a 2nd on a NT and I'll be sick.

I want guys that can start at 1 or 2. ILB, OLB, FS, RT... Give me a couple guys that can start and fill immediate rolls. Heck I'd like more depth too, but the guy buying the groceries already has enough meat on the table... I want some side dishes.

The thing is I'm not talking about depth here - I think Fergy belongs on the bench as a second stringer. I think it will be extremely difficult to build a potent run defense with Fergy manning the middle of the line. I suspect teams will really exploit us if we don't fix it.

Of all the players available in the draft this year, the one guy who is the closest thing to a sure-fire impact defender in a 3-4 is Ngata. The LBs just don't measure up to him at the top end.

I guess if we are going to operate under the assumption that we are contenders next year (which I don't believe) and we want to upgrade the team the best picks are probably LBs and OL with FA to acquire a starting FS and RT.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The thing is I'm not talking about depth here - I think Fergy belongs on the bench as a second stringer. I think it will be extremely difficult to build a potent run defense with Fergy manning the middle of the line. I suspect teams will really exploit us if we don't fix it.

Of all the players available in the draft this year, the one guy who is the closest thing to a sure-fire impact defender in a 3-4 is Ngata. The LBs just don't measure up to him at the top end.

I guess if we are going to operate under the assumption that we are contenders next year (which I don't believe) and we want to upgrade the team the best picks are probably LBs and OL with FA to acquire a starting FS and RT.

If we gave a $9,000,000 signing bonus to a back-up player we might as well slit our wrists now...

I think Shanle, Fujita and Davis are worse at their respective positions than Ferguson is at his.

 

[speedkilz88]

Ferguson wasn't the problem last season, the LBs were. Johnson was 294 as a rookie coming out of Mid Ten St, so I expect he will be over 300 this next season with offseason workouts. Remember Parcells doesn't like guys overweight, he had Ferguson lose weight last training camp because he wanted him at 310.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Parcells just invested the money poorly is all - Pat Williams would have been the better choice. Fergy is being forced to play a role that he is not built for - he just doesn't have the great size, immense power and low center of gravity required for the position. He is a good guy to play beside a pass rushing DT in a 4-3, though.

If you want to build a great 3-4, you need a NT who can stand up against a double team consistently. Fergy is not in the upper echelon of NTs and was a non-factor - he is not in the class of a Jamal Williams or a Casey Hampton. Laroi Glover, a pass-rushing DT specialist, put him on the bench for 11 games. That speaks volumes about Fergy.

The ILBs don't have to be great if the the guy in the middle is doing his job which is a good thing considering how mediocre James is and how bad the rest are.

BP's big investments in FA last year didn't fare so well. Fergy was average, Rivera was below average. Henry got injured and his manhood was questioned down the stretch (has to be a concern) even though he played well the first half of the year.

To be fair, Bledsoe was above average and Aaron Glenn was a gem.

If BP learns not to overpay (double digit signing bonuses) for 30-year olds in FAs when their bodies are falling apart, he would get better results.

I take this is just another one of your rants against Parcells

we finally spend money on FAs, and it's not good enough :jerk:, c'mon, nit-picking the A Henry situation to make it seem worse than it was, a great addition suffering a nasty injury? the NTs job is to occupy blockers, it's the Lbs job to make plays in the running game, and our LB group outside of Ware and James is mediocre, so I don't see where you're getting this idea that Ferg was just average, was it because he didn't post eye-popping stats, although they were on par with the rest of the NTs? was it him rotating with Glover as part of a system, cuz that's what he was asked to do? and FYI, Ferg is considered to be one of the top NTs in the game

 

[DLCassidy]

If we see a NT drafted on the 1st day of this draft I will be disapointed. Why? Because although it's a need it's not as big a need as OT, OG, OLB and FS. It may be a bigger need than WR but you're more likely to find a fat guy than a fast guy late in the draft. I'd be happy with a Steve Fifta in round 5. You draft DT earlier than that you're admitting Ferguson is a bust IMO.

 

[Eskimo]

If we gave a $9,000,000 signing bonus to a back-up player we might as well slit our wrists now...

I think Shanle, Fujita and Davis are worse at their respective positions than Ferguson is at his.

I'm not debating whether Fergy > Shanle/Fujita/Davis. He clearly is because those other guys are bottom of the roster types.

Fergy is a very good NG in a 4-3 defense which is the role he played on the Jets. I just don't think he is strong enough to be the dominant NT we need to make this defense work properly. I do believe the $9M was spent poorly on a player who didn't really fit the mold of what we need in this defense. Meanwhile, Parcells wasted a mid-first rounder on Spears who is only going to be an adequate 3-4 DE - the type of guy you can find anywhere.

I guess it sometimes comes down to whether you draft an impact player at a position of "strength" or a good player at a position of "weakness". In the short run, you are usually better off with the second strategy but in the long run you are usually better off with the first strategy. Besides, I think Fergy will be turning 32 this year so he is no spring chicken and we will need to think about grooming a replacement. Pepper doesn't have the right body type to be a full-time NT so I don't think he is the answer either.

If we don't address the issue in the first round, we will need to eventually address later in the draft or FA.

 

[Eskimo]

I take this is just another one of your rants against Parcells

we finally spend money on FAs, and it's not good enough :jerk:, c'mon, nit-picking the A Henry situation to make it seem worse than it was, a great addition suffering a nasty injury? the NTs job is to occupy blockers, it's the Lbs job to make plays in the running game, and our LB group outside of Ware and James is mediocre, so I don't see where you're getting this idea that Ferg was just average, was it because he didn't post eye-popping stats, although they were on par with the rest of the NTs? was it him rotating with Glover as part of a system, cuz that's what he was asked to do? and FYI, Ferg is considered to be one of the top NTs in the game

My issue with Fergy is that he frequently gets moved off the line or out of the hole which means he doesn't control the double team block well enough to play NT. A really good NT stands his ground and is able to control the double team - this is what Williams and Hampton do so well. This is what Fergy cannot do.

In terms of Henry, I thought he played well. I just found Parcells comments about him towards the end of the year alarming. There was an insinuation that he should be playing - I personally never felt that was legitimate but once you get in BP's doghouse ...

I'll say this about BP - he has made us better. I'll also freely state that I believe he lacks the vision to take us to the Super Bowl. I realize he is only here for two more years so just based on chance alone I have a 93% chance of being right but I'd believe the same even if you gave him 10 years here. He will build good teams that win 10 or so games, but he will not take us any further than that. That just isn't good enough.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It's a good debate. I agree with most that Fergy is merely an "okay" NT, which is below average production for the contract he got. I do wonder if the high ankle sprain for most of camp hurt him all year, although it really shouldn't have. There's a chance he might do a little better this year if he doesn't get hurt.

(As an aside, I do wish Parcells would let Fergy weigh in 10 lbs heavier. Like Speedkilz mentioned, Parcells really wants even the big guys at anchor positions to come in relatively light.)

I've liked Ngata since last year, but I doubt we'd draft him even if he were there when we pick. When has Parcells ever used a 1st rounder to replace a Parcells Guy he just brought in the year before? Truth be told, Parcells has drafted for need since he got here, and I doubt he sees NT as a top-5 need on this team.

 

[Eskimo]

It's a good debate. I agree with most that Fergy is merely an "okay" NT, which is below average production for the contract he got. I do wonder if the high ankle sprain for most of camp hurt him all year, although it really shouldn't have. There's a chance he might do a little better this year if he doesn't get hurt.

(As an aside, I do wish Parcells would let Fergy weigh in 10 lbs heavier. Like Speedkilz mentioned, Parcells really wants even the big guys at anchor positions to come in relatively light.)

I've liked Ngata since last year, but I doubt we'd draft him even if he were there when we pick. When has Parcells ever used a 1st rounder to replace a Parcells Guy he just brought in the year before? Truth be told, Parcells has drafted for need since he got here, and I doubt he sees NT as a top-5 need on this team.

I pretty much well agree with everything you have said here but if Ngata slides to #18, that is the pick. You don't let dominant players like that slip if they miraculously fall to you. In reality, he is likely a top 10 pick and should probably be on the cusp of top 5.

 

[neosapien23]

I take this is just another one of your rants against Parcells

we finally spend money on FAs, and it's not good enough :jerk:, c'mon, nit-picking the A Henry situation to make it seem worse than it was, a great addition suffering a nasty injury? the NTs job is to occupy blockers, it's the Lbs job to make plays in the running game, and our LB group outside of Ware and James is mediocre, so I don't see where you're getting this idea that Ferg was just average, was it because he didn't post eye-popping stats, although they were on par with the rest of the NTs? was it him rotating with Glover as part of a system, cuz that's what he was asked to do? and FYI, Ferg is considered to be one of the top NTs in the game

Say what you want, but there were alot of fans that didn't want Marco Rivera. You can't give a 32 year old guard that kind of signing bonus. As for Ferguson, he lost his starting job to small pass rushing DT. That is what we call a turd. Once he got paid. he puffed up and turded out. Henry, Bledsoe, and Glenn though were all great signings.