Marcus Trufant

[playit12]

Oh by the way...

According to FootballOutsiders ranking of the best 10 NFL QB's last year...

3 were from the Big 10
3 were from the Mac
2 were From the Big East
and 1 Each from SEC and CUSA

I guess then we should be raiding Marshall for corner back in the future?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And you can tell me how those Vaunted Pac 10 DBs on the Pac 10's second best team did to stop the 5th best team in the Big 12 (Texas Tech). Of course it's always about one game right?



Well back in 2002 Red Raider Kliff Klingsberry was rewritting the record books for passing... But Chris Simms, Josh Fields, and Seneca Wallace all up put up over 3000 yards.

By the way in 2002 K-State played

Pac 10 USC (Carson Palmer) holding him to just 20 points and winning the game.
Third Most prolific Big 12 Passer (Josh Fields) Holding him to just 9 points,
Second Most Prolific Big 12 Passer (Chris Simms) Holding him to just 17 Points,
Fourth Most Prolific Big 12 Passer (Seneca Wallace) Holding him to just 7 points,
And then went on to play Pac 10 Arizona State (With the third best Pac-10 QB behind Palmer and Pickett). They beat Arizona State while keeping Walter under 50% completion percentage.

So yeah I think he faced some passing teams. As for the Big 12 now... They are even more of a passing league with teams like Oklahoma using a pro-style offense and teams like Missouri and Colorado looking first to the pass as well.

Big 12 teams run the gambit of pass heavy teams to run first teams and certainly include well balanced teams. Maybe that's why we have such good DBs because we couldn't just sit back in 5 DB sets all year.




I Big My Battles Quite well Thank You

You Big your Battles well aye?

OK, whatever.

Your trying to convince me that the Big12 is a superior passing confernece to the PAC10/SEC whatever. Not likely. Your not going to convince me of the fact the teams in the Big12 have better Pro Style passing attacks then do the PAC10 teams. All you have to do is look at who plays QB in the NFL to see this is simply not true.

If your point is that the Big12 is better then the PAC10 over all, I would agree. This is no big news flash. I've been a fan of the Big12 since before it was. I remember SWC football and when there was a Big 8. Still, doesn't change the fact that the PAC10 has and continues to have the better passing offenses.

For all these big time QBs, (they should get down on there hands and knees and kiss the feet of Mouse Davis), how many are playing in the NFL right now? How many National Championships did any of these guys win? BTW, OU is not a pro style offensive team. You will see that next year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh by the way...

According to FootballOutsiders ranking of the best 10 NFL QB's last year...

3 were from the Big 10
3 were from the Mac
2 were From the Big East
and 1 Each from SEC and CUSA

I guess then we should be raiding Marshall for corner back in the future?

And none from the Big12. Imagine that.

For future reference, you absolutly should. After all, many of the best QBs are coming from the MAC.

 

[playit12]

And none from the Big12. Imagine that.

For future reference, you absolutly should. After all, many of the best QBs are coming from the MAC.

And no I don't think you should draft CB's from the MAC. I want the best athletes, which will at least for the time being be recruited to the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SEC, and Pac-10.

I think about as many CB's from the Mac are playing in the NFL as QB's from the Big 12. Nevertheless my point was that the Big 12 is not one dimmensional. Newman faced several quality QBs when he played in College.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, but I don't think this one is really open to debate. Tough to track down too many sources two years later, but the ones I did find were all quite clear that Newman was generally considered the best corner available at the time (some even say it was "unanimous" or use words like "consensus", which is pretty much the way I recall it). In contrast, I bet you would have trouble finding even one or two recognized sources that said otherwise.

OK, your right, I give up. Newman was the best and that's it.

It is 4:45 here and I am not inclined to stick around and find evaluations that speak to Trufant and how he was viewed.

I will fall on my sword here, try not to bleed all over the place and go from there.

However, I know that Trufant was the better technical corner. No question in my mind.

 

[playit12]

Your trying to convince me that the Big12 is a superior passing confernece to the PAC10/SEC whatever. Not likely. Your not going to convince me of the fact the teams in the Big12 have better Pro Style passing attacks then do the PAC10 teams. All you have to do is look at who plays QB in the NFL to see this is simply not true.

No... I don't think the conference with the most passes create the best DBs. I think the conference with the most balanced (or varried) offenses produce the best DBs. That was my point.

As far as who is playing in the NFL... right now I'd take Mac or Big 10 QBs myself. I think the Mac is pretty much luck, but the Big 10 has been putting out well rounded QBs for some time now. And not just system QBs that haven't done anything in the pros except been drafted high.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And no I don't think you should draft CB's from the MAC. I want the best athletes, which will at least for the time being be recruited to the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SEC, and Pac-10.

I think about as many CB's from the Mac are playing in the NFL as QB's from the Big 12. Nevertheless my point was that the Big 12 is not one dimmensional. Newman faced several quality QBs when he played in College.

Nick Collins, Ricardo Colchough, Keith Simms, Rashean Mathis, Travis Fisher and Roosevelt Williams are all DBs taken in the last few years from small schools.

Of all the conferences you named, with the exception of the Big 12, would be consiered big time passing confrences, IMO.

I fail to see your point here.

 

[Silverstar]

Newman was and is the best CB from the 2003 draft class IMO.

If you want a 2003 evaluation ABQ here's a decent one....


http://www.westcoastdraft.com/2003/03profiles-CB.html

 

[jay cee]

Newman was and is the best CB from the 2003 draft class IMO.

If you want a 2003 evaluation ABQ here's a decent one....


http://www.westcoastdraft.com/2003/03profiles-CB.html

That evaluation said that Trufant was more fundamentally sound. That's what ABQ had been saying.
Trufant must also be around 3-4 years younger than Newman.

 

[playit12]

Nick Collins, Ricardo Colchough, Keith Simms, Rashean Mathis, Travis Fisher and Roosevelt Williams are all DBs taken in the last few years from small schools.

Of all the conferences you named, with the exception of the Big 12, would be consiered big time passing confrences, IMO.

I fail to see your point here.

I don't see the Big 10 for insance as a passing conference. They have pretty well balanced teams that, like the big 12, play to the strength of thier recruits. When OSU had their title run, they did so on the shoulders of Clarett. Last year Michigan rode a freshman runner and certainly Chris Perry before him was much of the offensive focus.

I think both the Mac and Pac-10 are generally throw first offenses. However as the Pac-10 has grown it has diversified some.

I certainly don't think any of the ACC, Big East, or SEC can be considered a throw first offense.

Finally all of the DB's that you named above (that I remember anyway) were considered raw talents at CB. I have no doubt that physical athletes will always appear from all programs. However I don't think the conference lead to thier discovery.

I'm trying to think of guys that I feel came out of school well polished... guys like Champ Bailey (UGA) or Charles Woodson (Michigan).

However I don't want to debate this ad naseum so I'll let your next reply be the last word. It's past my bed time.

 

[Merlin]

That evaluation said that Trufant was more fundamentally sound. That's what ABQ had been saying.
Trufant must also be around 3-4 years younger than Newman.

I thought we should have traded down at the time and got Trufant because Newman wasnt clearly superior to Trufant. He was rated better because of his return skills by many but Trufant was much younger. I still believe we should have done that if it was possible. Newman is definitely not superior to Trufant now and Newman is like 27 or 28 years old now.

 

[Silverstar]

That evaluation said that Trufant was more fundamentally sound. That's what ABQ had been saying.
Trufant must also be around 3-4 years younger than Newman.

The article clearly states this as well...

On Newman...

Competes only with Charles Rogers and Terrell Suggs as the player likeliest to offer the greatest immediate impact to his NFL team.

On Trufant...

Clearly the #2 defensive back in the draft and a legitimate top 10 prospect.

Pretty cut and dry as far as I'm concerned.


Also, Trufant started 13 more games than Newman so naturally he was considered more fundamentally sound than Newman. This doesn't make Trufant a better cornerback than Newman...just more experienced coming out of college. Even though Trufant was more experienced, bigger, younger and just as quick, he was still rated the #2 CB behind Newman.


If that fact doesn't sink in....well...

 

[KDWilliams85]

Never... ever... ever... make a comparison based on age. Especially when you're comparing two players that are in the same draft class. Age is irrelevant when you have limited experience in a professional atmosphere.

 

[Merlin]

Never... ever... ever... make a comparison based on age. Especially when you're comparing two players that are in the same draft class. Age is irrelevant when you have limited experience in a professional atmosphere.

When you will be a 25 year old rookie, there will always always always be comparisons based on age. Age is very relevant in that scenario. It's ridiculous to say that age is irrelevant actually. Would you draft a 30 year old rookie? How about 35? Kills that argument.

 

[AdamJT13]

Newman is 2 years older than Trufant, a fact that is frequently mentioned (and often exaggerated to "3 or 4" years).

But hardly anyone mentions the fact that Ed Reed is 2 years older than Roy Williams (same rookie class), or that Antonio Gates is 2 years older than Jason Witten (same rookie class).

 

[big dog cowboy]

Would you draft a 30 year old rookie? How about 35? Kills that argument.

Who was the last 30 year old rookie?

 

[Merlin]

Who was the last 30 year old rookie?

Exactly my point. Age does matter.

 

[Merlin]

Newman is 2 years older than Trufant, a fact that is frequently mentioned (and often exaggerated to "3 or 4" years).

But hardly anyone mentions the fact that Ed Reed is 2 years older than Roy Williams (same rookie class), or that Antonio Gates is 2 years older than Jason Witten (same rookie class).

Witten came out early, he is only 23 years old now & Gates wasnt a 25 year old rookie. Roy was also younger than the average age when he came out, he is only 24 years old now & Reed was not a 25 year old rookie either.

Both of those guys were at most only 22-23 years old as a rookie, not 24-25 years old like Newman. Thats why the age thing is a bigger argument with Newman.

His age is a fact. Now it doesnt mean he wont be better or worse than Trufant or anyone else, it just means that he was older than your average rookie. I still would have preferred Trufant but it doesnt mean that I dont support Newman or any other Cowboy for that matter. It means that I have my opinion on that matter.

 

[TNCowboy]

Witten came out early, he is only 23 years old now & Gates wasnt a 25 year old rookie. Roy was also younger than the average age when he came out, he is only 24 years old now & Reed was not a 25 year old rookie either.

Both of those guys were at most only 22-23 years old as a rookie, not 24-25 years old like Newman. Thats why the age thing is a bigger argument with Newman.

His age is a fact. Now it doesnt mean it wont be better or worse than Trufant or anyone else, it just means that he was older than your average rookie. I still would have preferred Trufant but it doesnt mean that I dont support Newman or any other Cowboy for that matter. It means that I have my opinion on that matter.

Reed was a 24 year old rookie. Newman was 25. That 1 year is hardly reason to pass up what most believed was an almost can't-miss player. Rick Gosselin said during the draft that Newman was the #1 player on something like 21 teams' draft boards.

 

[joseephuss]

Perhaps you can post them. I would be interested to read any evaluation on Newman that said he was technically better then Trufant coming out.

As far as the complaints, that's a cover2 thing. In a man to man or bump and run scheme, as you know, it is customary to play much tighter coverage.

In a Cover 2 scheme, the corner back is supposed to be physical with the wide receiver at the line of scrimmage. This will disrupt the timing of routes and also give the safeties time to get over since they are covering the deep zones.