Marcus Trufant

[Merlin]

Reed was a 24 year old rookie. Newman was 25. That 1 year is hardly reason to pass up what most believed was an almost can't-miss player. Rick Gosselin said during the draft that Newman was the #1 player on something like 21 teams' draft boards.

Its a factor. The comparison was to Trufant anyway who is 2 1/4 years younger than Newman. There were also concerns with Newman's shoulder at draft time. He was not a cant miss player. There are no cant miss players in the draft to be honest with you. He was still the top rated CB by most, no one is arguing that.

The point is that he is not currently superior to Trufant. Time will tell. Ed Reed is probably the best safety out there right now. Roy as much as we love him is not the best safety in the league. The move to strong will help him tremendously though.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In a Cover 2 scheme, the corner back is supposed to be physical with the wide receiver at the line of scrimmage. This will disrupt the timing of routes and also give the safeties time to get over since they are covering the deep zones.

In a Cover2, the CB does not line up in face to face with the WR. You line up off the receiver. Depending on scheme, that distance varies. In a bump and run scheme, your heads up on the WR. It's different. The question here is not if you physical in a Cover2 or not. The question was why Trufant would line up so deep on the WR in a cover2. It is probably what he's being asked to do from his position coach or DC.

Either way, apples and oranges.

 

[KDWilliams85]

Exactly my point. Age does matter.

Age matters when you're drafted. Once drafted, it's meaningless. A 25 and a 23 year old rookie from the same class with no experience in a professional atmosphere is irrelevant.

 

[AdamJT13]

There were also concerns with Newman's shoulder at draft time. He was not a cant miss player. There are no cant miss players in the draft to be honest with you.

Newman was as much a can't-miss player as any in the 2003 draft.

As Dick Vermeil said, "To me, there are no risks with him. I wish there were. ... He's the most gifted workout guy I think I've ever seen. It's really amazing how he can move and change direction and maintain balance and never look like he's working real hard at it. He can make difficult things look very easy. There's nothing he can't do. He's ready to play next week."

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Newman was as much a can't-miss player as any in the 2003 draft.

As Dick Vermeil said, "To me, there are no risks with him. I wish there were. ... He's the most gifted workout guy I think I've ever seen. It's really amazing how he can move and change direction and maintain balance and never look like he's working real hard at it. He can make difficult things look very easy. There's nothing he can't do. He's ready to play next week."

It's interesting thou. While I don't think Newman has had as bad a season as some may believe, I think he's far from what most expected. I believe he will get better as time goes on and I expect him to be a fine player for us but still, just goes to show that there really are no guaranties.

 

[KDWilliams85]

It's interesting thou. While I don't think Newman has had as bad a season as some may believe, I think he's far from what most expected. I believe he will get better as time goes on and I expect him to be a fine player for us but still, just goes to show that there really are no guaranties.

Newman didn't even have a bad season. Defensive statistics are inverted. The less, the better applies to defense. The less tackles, INT, passes defensed, and all of that you have, the better. It tells opposing teams that they shouldn't run or pass at you.
​

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Newman didn't even have a bad season. Defensive statistics are inverted. The less, the better applies to defense. The less tackles, INT, passes defensed, and all of that you have, the better. It tells opposing teams that they shouldn't run or pass at you.
​

Newman had a very good stretch of about 7 games or so. How ever, teams definatly found him in short yardage and or goal line. Teams learned that a big WR could use there bodies to beat him. Newman didn't have a bad season but he also didn't have a great season. I don't need statistics to tell me what I saw with my own eyes.

 

[Pokes28]

Topic don't care about I just want to thank Alexander for changing his SIG...Thank you

I care about the topic, but I want to ditto the statement by jksmith269. I hated his old sig so much that I wouldn't even open messages that I thought he posted in. Not because of him, just that darn sig. That pic of the freaky dude gives me the willeys.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[jay cee]

The article clearly states this as well...

On Newman...



On Trufant...




Pretty cut and dry as far as I'm concerned.


Also, Trufant started 13 more games than Newman so naturally he was considered more fundamentally sound than Newman. This doesn't make Trufant a better cornerback than Newman...just more experienced coming out of college. Even though Trufant was more experienced, bigger, younger and just as quick, he was still rated the #2 CB behind Newman.


If that fact doesn't sink in....well...

I was only stating that is what ABQ had said earlier in the thread. That some reports considered Trufant more fundamentally sound than Newman EVEN though Newman was the higher rated prospect.

That's why he and I believe one other poster said they would have preferred the Cowboys trade down get another draft pick and still get Trufant.

No where in my post did I say that Trufant was better than Newman. I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe ABQ said it either.

If that fact doesn't sink in.......well.....

 

[jay cee]

Newman is 2 years older than Trufant, a fact that is frequently mentioned (and often exaggerated to "3 or 4" years).

But hardly anyone mentions the fact that Ed Reed is 2 years older than Roy Williams (same rookie class), or that Antonio Gates is 2 years older than Jason Witten (same rookie class).

I did not intend to exaggerate the age difference between Newman and Trufant. I was going on the assumption that Trufant was probably no more than 21 or 22 because he was leaving college following his junior season.

I had read that Newman was 25, so I jumped to the conclusion that he was 3 or 4 years older.

But I think it's slightly different circumstances when you look at Reed and Gates.

Maybe one of the reasons that Ed Reed was drafted 16 picks after Williams was because of his age. I doubt it, but the way most of these teams scrutinize these picks, it could be possible.

Gates was a free agent pick-up, so I don't see that quite the same either.

Newman or Trufant, Williams or Reed and Witten or Gates. One thing is for sure. It looks like you would be in great shape any way you go.

 

[jterrell]

TNew tackles better, has better hands and is faster.
The coverage skills are basically equal.

Last season TNEW was held back by injuries and looked bad early then rounded into form late in the season. When a guy isn't 100% and their game is limited they play ont heir heels as TNew did last season. He was by far the better rookie of the two but Trufant was better last season. My guess is TNew has the better career by a marked advantage but injuries could certainly derail that.

 

[jterrell]

And age does matter at least where talent is equal.

I;d rather have RW then Reed because of that 2 years(tho I wanted to draft Reed later after Jamme rin 1--yes jammer was gone so doesnt matter).

I'd also rather have Witten than Gates--largely because Witten has more potential as a blocker IMHO, but definitely with the age consideration.

Witten is much younger than TNew and should be a Pro Bowler for an extra 3 or 4 years if both are perennial guys as I suspect throughout the meat of their careers.

 

[AdamJT13]

I did not intend to exaggerate the age difference between Newman and Trufant. I was going on the assumption that Trufant was probably no more than 21 or 22 because he was leaving college following his junior season.

I had read that Newman was 25, so I jumped to the conclusion that he was 3 or 4 years older.

Trufant didn't leave after his junior season. He played four years, was 22 when he got drafted and turned 23 as a rookie. Newman played four seasons after redshirting in his first year, was 24 when he was drafted and turned 25 as a rookie.

 

[Alexander]

Thus, based on the available information at the time, Newman was the right pick (and I fully expect him to vindicate his selection in coming years).

It is indeed regrettable that the fifth choice in a draft has to "vindicate" his selection against the likes of Marcus Trufant. But it is true, we are certainly not getting a quality return on our investment, for whatever the reason.

 

[Alexander]

Newman was as much a can't-miss player as any in the 2003 draft.

I think he was considered the "safest".

And whether or not he was labeled as that or not, he is not playing up to that level of proficiency.

If anything, he has underachieved to the status dictated by his press clippings.

As Dick Vermeil said, "To me, there are no risks with him. I wish there were. ... He's the most gifted workout guy I think I've ever seen. It's really amazing how he can move and change direction and maintain balance and never look like he's working real hard at it. He can make difficult things look very easy. There's nothing he can't do. He's ready to play next week."

Dick Vermeil was probably impressed with Ryan Sims. That does not make him a better choice than Roy Williams was.

 

[jterrell]

More notes on the drama of this thread. Mostly points both ways.

The Big12 is a good passing conference. If it wasn't you wouldn't see all of these WRs go high as Roy Williams, Rashaun Woods and others have gone the past few seasons.

USC is a powerhouse under Carroll but largely because the rest of the Pac-10 has sucked and recruiting is slanted heavily to them. Anyone who watched OU-USC saw a domination but Tech handed #6 Cal a severe beating as well in bowl season. A Cal team that had fought USC to close games and owned the rest of the Pac-10.

QB play takes time to develop and Texas high schools were run-based until about 4-7 years ago depending on which school. They mostly all run spread offenses now. So the talent will show itself over time. Cali was running pass offenses long ago thus those QBs have shown up far more often. Part of the prob tho is the generally laid back attitude they take. Most of the worst underachivers at QB are from California.

Brees should have been a Big 12 QB but he wasn't because of Chris Simms. OU, like Tech was using a system based QB with a fairly weak arm who could make quick reads for most of the past 5 years. Limits your pro ability. So does NEB running the veer or wishbone forever. This year Vince Young and the kid at TAMU rank very highly at QB and NEB recruited the top ranked kid in the country as a passing QB. Tech's QB will again be a top 5 passing guy with little to no NFL aspirations. Brad Smith at Missou has a chance of being a day 1 guy in the NFL.

All that said, I'd drfat a MAC QB ina heartbeat had he performed well on the college level in the few games he had to face top competition. They have learned a system that allows them to excel in the pros. And I'd rather gamble on a proven system with proven production than a once in a lifetime type talent as a place with zero track record.

 

[AdamJT13]

I think he was considered the "safest".

And whether or not he was labeled as that or not, he is not playing up to that level of proficiency.

If anything, he has underachieved to the status dictated by his press clippings.

I disagree. He had an excellent rookie season and played very well for much of his second season. He had a few bad games -- as every player does in his first couple of seasons -- that have been exaggerated to no end. He has played almost every play of his career, he rarely is given help from a safety, and he has led the team in interceptions both seasons.

Dick Vermeil was probably impressed with Ryan Sims. That does not make him a better choice than Roy Williams was.

So Vermeil's opinion is meaningless, since he picked Ryan Sims? Never mind that he was much less effusive about Sims after drafting him (he said Sims needed "experience and a lot of hard work") then called Sims "fat and out of shape" after Sims reported to the team.

 

[Silverstar]

I was only stating that is what ABQ had said earlier in the thread. That some reports considered Trufant more fundamentally sound than Newman EVEN though Newman was the higher rated prospect.

That's why he and I believe one other poster said they would have preferred the Cowboys trade down get another draft pick and still get Trufant.

No where in my post did I say that Trufant was better than Newman. I don't remember for sure, but I don't believe ABQ said it either.

If that fact doesn't sink in.......well.....

First, can't you come up with your own lines to make your point?

Second, the FACT is your simply wrong because he did say Trufant was better than Newman. Here's the proof from his earlier posts....

"I liked Trufant better then Newman. Alas, it's done now. I pull for Newman."

"We drafted Newman and so, he is who I pull for but I do not share in the opinion that Newman was definatly better coming out of college. I think it's fair to say that he had more physical skills but the better CB, at that time, was Trufant IMO."

"I don't dispute the fact that Newman was the highest rated prospect at CB in 2003. Key word here being prospect. If you asked the question, "who is the best CB right now?", The answer was Trufant."

Clearly, ABQ thinks Trufant is the better CB now and was the better CB back in college as well.

Third, I wanted to point out that the article clearly rates Newman over Trufant. This was the fact, I was hoping would "sink in" to EVERYBODY who read it and not just you or ABQ.

 

[jay cee]

Trufant didn't leave after his junior season. He played four years, was 22 when he got drafted and turned 23 as a rookie. Newman played four seasons after redshirting in his first year, was 24 when he was drafted and turned 25 as a rookie.

Thanks for straightening me out Adam. I totally misread that bio on Trufant.

 

[jay cee]

First, can't you come up with your own lines to make your point?

My only point was that ABQ had stated earlier, that coming out of college, Trufant was the more technically sound player. One of the points that was made in the article that you posted. I'm afraid there was no other line that I could use.

I don't follow college football, the draft or other teams that closely. So I knew nothing about Newman until the Cowboys drafted him. And I wouldn't know much about Trufant if there was not this kind of debate going on about the two players.

Second, the FACT is your simply wrong because he did say Trufant was better than Newman. Here's the proof from his earlier posts....




Clearly, ABQ thinks Trufant is the better CB now and was the better CB back in college as well.

You are right, I did not remember him stating that in one of his posts.

Third, I wanted to point out that the article clearly rates Newman over Trufant. This was the fact, I was hoping would "sink in" to EVERYBODY who read it and not just you or ABQ.

But that still does not make it wrong for those who wanted the Cowboys to trade down to add an additional pick as well as draft Trufant.