Maybe Its A Culture Problem, Not Neccessarily Playcalling

[Beast_from_East]

I was questioning my friend Idgit in another thread as to why Dallas seems to be the only team in the league that cant win games regardless of who the backup is. He stated we are losing games with our backup QBs (currently 1-13) because key starters are not making the plays that are there to be made and I agree 100% with that assessment.

The next logical question would be "why do the key starters on other teams make plays for their backups, but not in Dallas?"

Maybe its not playcalling, but culture? Maybe Garrett has created a culture that its ok to lose if Romo doesn't play. You don't have to make the extra effort to get out of bounds, you don't have to make the extra effort to catch that pass that is slightly behind you, you don't have to make that extra effort to hold your block just a second longer, because we are not expecting to win without Romo.

What I saw yesterday was the Giant's head coach get in the face of a TE that dropped a 3rd down pass and the head coach of the Cowboy's pat a player on the back after a huge gaffe costed the team a chance to win a game. Maybe that sends a message to the rest of the team that its ok, we didn't expect to win anyways.

I really started thinking about this when a reporter asked Cole Beasly about Williams not getting out of bounds to stop the clock and he said that "it probably didn't matter, that would have been a long arse FG anyways".

So the message is that if you screw up, don't worry about it, we probably were not going to win anyways without Romo. Now maybe its starting to become a little more clear why this team has lost 13 out of 14 games without Romo.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

JG pats players on the back, and doesn't get in their face, even when Romo is in there. I agree that there seems to be a culture issue starting with JG. Who knows why. We had a culture issue with Wade and changed the coach but we are still mediocore.

JG seems a bit too chummy chummy with the players. I wouldn't mind it if they were executing or performing to their standards but it seems there are no drastic repercussions for on field mistakes. maybe because inside JG knows he is making mistakes so why would he expect the players not to? kind of hypocritical maybe? headscratcher. We are stuck in mud.

 

[Idgit]

I was questioning my friend Idgit in another thread as to why Dallas seems to be the only team in the league that cant win games regardless of who the backup is. He stated we are losing games with our backup QBs (currently 1-13) because key starters are not making the plays that are there to be made and I agree 100% with that assessment.

The next logical question would be "why do the key starters on other teams make plays for their backups, but not in Dallas?"

Maybe its not playcalling, but culture? Maybe Garrett has created a culture that its ok to lose if Romo doesn't play. You don't have to make the extra effort to get out of bounds, you don't have to make the extra effort to catch that pass that is slightly behind you, you don't have to make that extra effort to hold your block just a second longer, because we are not expecting to win without Romo.

What I saw yesterday was the Giant's head coach get in the face of a TE that dropped a 3rd down pass and the head coach of the Cowboy's pat a player on the back after a huge gaffe costed the team a chance to win a game. Maybe that sends a message to the rest of the team that its ok, we didn't expect to win anyways.

I really started thinking about this when a reporter asked Cole Beasly about Williams not getting out of bounds to stop the clock and he said that "it probably didn't matter, that would have been a long arse FG anyways".

So the message is that if you screw up, don't worry about it, we probably were not going to win anyways without Romo. Now maybe its starting to become a little more clear why this team has lost 13 out of 14 games without Romo.

Now, this is a thread I can get behind. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it needs to change. I don't know if it's a benching, or a bold proclamation, or what, but somebody needs to get some skin in the game in Dallas. And I'm perfectly fine putting that on the head coach, where it belongs.

The frustrating this is the same symptoms bite us from a different place each game. It's drive-killing OL penalties. It's ST breakdowns. It's downfield blocking calls on WRs that remove TDs. It's drops, or officials overturning calls they should not, or body catches, or the sun in my eyes, or not getting out of bounds. It's a blown coverage because a LB got hurt at the end of regulation. It's not holding your water at QB and putting in a guy who doesn't take care of the football. You can't see it coming because it's so many little things.

Is it culture? Maybe. I think, mostly, we've got a good culture right now, but there's something keeping these guys from getting the job done when it matters.

Is it reliance on Tony's magic to make it all work? Maybe. Tony's pretty great. But we found so many ways to lose last season, it was crazy. And we picked up right where we left off this week.

My own feeling is that we're very close. It's a mental shift or an expectation, or a fear of getting fired or cut or something. I'm not sure what's missing, but whatever it is, I honestly don't think it's something all that significant. You could kind of feel things slide into focus for us in 2014 as the swagger started. When it did, all of the little excuses for it not getting done sort of just disappeared and things started to snowball positively.

I wish I had a better answer for what I thought the problem was. It drives me crazy, and makes the games and the seasons just not fun to watch when we sisyphus it out there week after week after week.

 

[Idgit]

JG pats players on the back, and doesn't get in their face, even when Romo is in there. I agree that there seems to be a culture issue starting with JG. Who knows why. We had a culture issue with Wade and changed the coach but we are still mediocore.

JG seems a bit too chummy chummy with the players. I wouldn't mind it if they were executing or performing to their standards but it seems there are no drastic repercussions for on field mistakes. maybe because inside JG knows he is making mistakes so why would he expect the players not to? kind of hypocritical maybe? headscratcher. We are stuck in mud.

Thing is, there have been a lot of players coaches who've done really well in the league. And the players all say Garrett tears into them pretty good behind closed doors.

I've thought at times it might be Jerry's open-door policy that takes the stinger off of Garrett as a HC. I know Darren Woodson thought that was a huge problem with the team: that guys could go over Garrett's head and sometimes get results.

I know at times players have suggested there's a team within the team in Dallas. With Jason and Tony and Wit and Demarco and the like on the inside and other players not in the inner circle. Clearly, those guys have a close-knit relationship, but that, too, I don't think is all that unusual on a team of 53 players. Those things tend to happen on teams.

Personally, I'd like to see players sat for making mistakes more often. We did it with Murray in '14, and he had a fit. But if you don't get out of bounds or whatever, your butt should sit for a series. If you have a presnap penalty, Jason Witten, Jeff Swaim should take your rep. Those are maybe little changes, but like I said above, I don't think we're looking for a seas change here. One of the reasons I don't want to see Garrett canned is I feel like the team has been close the last three years here. And Jerry's a wildcard that wreaks chaos on an organization that needs stability and sanity. I'd much rather tweak what we've got that's not working than blow it all up and hope Jerry gets it right next time with whoever he brings in.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

What CULTURE. There isn't a head coach to add one! ... or an Owner ... or a NFL General Manager ................ - PERIOD

 

[plymkr]

Didn't Jimmy Johnson say in a pre game show about a year or so ago that Dallas is more like a country club atmosphere than and professional sports team. I don't know about you guys but I've never been stressed out going to a country club. If that's true then it explains a lot as far as dumb players repeatedly doing dumb things and a lot of stuff we've been complaining about the last couple years.

 

[Tabascocat]

I think the players need one voice. They have Jerry, Stephen and Garrett and they seem to be not on the same page at times. You have Jerry blabbing to the media while Jason is saying another somewhere else. Throw in SJ throwing in his own quotes to whoever else will listen.

I can't think of any other GM's that take this much precedence over a HC when dealing with the team. Garrett may very well want to rule with an iron fist yet he has to always look over his shoulder to get approval from the execs before he says or does anything.

I don't like Jason and have never hid that fact but I do see that a HC'ing job in Dallas is no picnic. There is a culture problem but Garrett is only a small part of it, Jerry the owner/GM causes and enables it IMO.

Add: I wonder if Garrett would have seen better results with less interference from the Jones boys.......

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

Thing is, there have been a lot of players coaches who've done really well in the league. And the players all say Garrett tears into them pretty good behind closed doors.

I've thought at times it might be Jerry's open-door policy that takes the stinger off of Garrett as a HC. I know Darren Woodson thought that was a huge problem with the team: that guys could go over Garrett's head and sometimes get results.

I know at times players have suggested there's a team within the team in Dallas. With Jason and Tony and Wit and Demarco and the like on the inside and other players not in the inner circle. Clearly, those guys have a close-knit relationship, but that, too, I don't think is all that unusual on a team of 53 players. Those things tend to happen on teams.

Personally, I'd like to see players sat for making mistakes more often. We did it with Murray in '14, and he had a fit. But if you don't get out of bounds or whatever, your butt should sit for a series. If you have a presnap penalty, Jason Witten, Jeff Swaim should take your rep. Those are maybe little changes, but like I said above, I don't think we're looking for a seas change here. One of the reasons I don't want to see Garrett canned is I feel like the team has been close the last three years here. And Jerry's a wildcard that wreaks chaos on an organization that needs stability and sanity. I'd much rather tweak what we've got that's not working than blow it all up and hope Jerry gets it right next time with whoever he brings in.

we've been close (2014) but its stuck in mudd more times than not. it doesnt go anywhere. its a repeat pattern. how long can this go on? you are right guys can go over JGs head. His hands are tied. What dexternjack said also. Makes sense. Failed to ment ion that. I knew it but I've been stuck so long in can't change the GM or the OWNER so JG is the only foreseeable movable part. My bad.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

I think the players need one voice. They have Jerry, Stephen and Garrett and they seem to be not on the same page at times. You have Jerry blabbing to the media while Jason is saying another somewhere else. Throw in SJ throwing in his own quotes to whoever else will listen.

I can't think of any other GM's that take this much precedence over a HC when dealing with the team. Garrett may very well want to rule with an iron fist yet he has to always look over his shoulder to get approval from the execs before he says or does anything.

I don't like Jason and have never hid that fact but I do see that a HC'ing job in Dallas is no picnic. There is a culture problem but Garrett is only a small part of it, Jerry the owner/GM causes and enables it IMO.

Add: I wonder if Garrett would have seen better results with less interference from the Jones boys.......

Right on. JG is a symptom. The root cause is deeper. The culture is reflected onto itself with production on the field. Mediocrity. I mean if the math doesn't clue you in to a glaring issue than I don't know what to say. 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 12-4, 4-12... and JG's Reg Season record: 45–43 (.511), Career record:46–44 (.511), Post Season record: 1–1 (.500)... u get the point.

 

[Gameover]

Jerry cultivates a soft environment

Add to that his being in charge of every aspect of the team, a non teacher in Jason Garrett at head coach , I have a feeling this thing may go Wade in 2010.

Jerry Jones should not be running a football team. And I'm not talking GM. I'm talking deciding Collins is gonna replace Leary because Collins is more talented. I'm talking Zeke being treated like he's Emmitt and taking the PS off, but he automatically gets the starting job even though Morris might've been our best player in the preseason.



Jesse Holley said the culture between here and NE is night and day. Street mentioned the culture difference. When Irvin was out at TC he mentioned to Fisher something he didn't like about the practices.

Jerrys grip on all things Cowboys is the problem. That's deeper than talent selections.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Nobody at Valley Ranch has feared for their jobs since Bill Parcells was walking the halls. The second he drove off the lot, the VR Country Club was back in full force.

Make no mistake, it starts at the top with the owner and permeates throughout the entire team.

 

[Zman5]

Play design plays big part too. If you watch All22, our passing game rarely threaten the deep middle of the field. Our deep routes are typically to the sidelines with Dez and TWill. We then have Witt and Bease working underneath. This makes it easy for the CB and Safeties to defend the deep outside routes because they don't have to worry about the deep middle of the field.

I think the issue is that Witt is too slow and Bease is too small to be effective running a deep seam or a post route to threaten the deep middle. They need to work in Butler or even Escobar so that opposing defenses has to defend the whole field.

I think the reason Romo can overcome this bad design is fact that he is very accurate passer and can fit the ball into tight windows. Not many QBs can.

 

[Gameover]

Nobody at Valley Ranch has feared for their jobs since Bill Parcells was walking the halls

That's more myth than reality. He couldn't overcome the grip Jerry has out at Valley Ranch(now whatever its called)

 

[DOUBLE WING]

That's more myth than reality. He couldn't overcome the grip Jerry has out at Valley Ranch(now whatever its called)

It came straight from the horse's mouth. Jerry himself said as soon as Bill left that people wouldn't be "walking around on egg shells" at Valley Ranch anymore.

 

[robbieruff]

I think the players need one voice. They have Jerry, Stephen and Garrett and they seem to be not on the same page at times. You have Jerry blabbing to the media while Jason is saying another somewhere else. Throw in SJ throwing in his own quotes to whoever else will listen.

I can't think of any other GM's that take this much precedence over a HC when dealing with the team. Garrett may very well want to rule with an iron fist yet he has to always look over his shoulder to get approval from the execs before he says or does anything.

I don't like Jason and have never hid that fact but I do see that a HC'ing job in Dallas is no picnic. There is a culture problem but Garrett is only a small part of it, Jerry the owner/GM causes and enables it IMO.

Add: I wonder if Garrett would have seen better results with less interference from the Jones boys.......

I am also not a fan of Jason the HC - though I think overall he's a good guy. I think you've nailed the dysfunction that is this: running an organization with 100% responsibility without the commensurate level of authority. I can tell from first hand experience that such a leadership structure/dynamic when you have an individual responsible for running day to day operations (I.e., a HC who has to deliver the "product on the field") yet this person has no final say so and everyone knows it...you've got serious accountability issues that impare performance as it infects the entire organization. It results in there being no healthy fear factor with Garrett and it's painfully obvious. Even among "players coaches" there's always been a healthy level of fear in the successful ones - like a Mike Tomlin. The ones that don't instill a modicum of respect thru fear are the Wade Philips of the world. Great coordinator but never able to cut it as he head honcho.

During the pregame on Fox yesterday you saw everything you needed to see as demonstration of this principle. They did a vignette on the Star practice facility. There's JJ flying in on he chopper showing the "great vantage point." And as he's giving the grand tour, he stops to point out the large window from his office that overlooks the practice field. And he punctuated the moment with the following comment: "so I can watch to see if they're running that play they promised me"...or something to that effect. If you don't see the pathological dysfunction in that scene then I don't know what more to say. In that few seconds, you saw everything you need to know on what's wrong and why the job of HC here is so difficult.

Responsibility without a matching level of authority is one of the most undermining elements to organizational and executional excellence and we see the results of that driving results (or lack thereof) each and every game day. And as fans who invest so much, we deserve **** tons more than that!?!

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I think most fans are over reacting to the first game of the season. It was a division game and especially against the Giants is 1 or 2 plays to win or lose. We had chances to put the game away and giants had chances to put it away and it came down to the end. I hate to lose but i see some positives as well as negatives.

Dak is a rookie playing in his first game against the Giants on 9/11. The sky isn't falling, our season isn't over. Commanders got blown out and looked terrible. Eagles played the Browns.

As terrible as yall say we are what does that say about the Giants who needed Williams to make a mental error to win by 1 point. We kicked FGs all game. Do we need to play better.....yes the entire team does including coaches. This division is wide open and we have just as good of a chance to win it as any of them.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I was questioning my friend Idgit in another thread as to why Dallas seems to be the only team in the league that cant win games regardless of who the backup is. He stated we are losing games with our backup QBs (currently 1-13) because key starters are not making the plays that are there to be made and I agree 100% with that assessment.

The next logical question would be "why do the key starters on other teams make plays for their backups, but not in Dallas?"

Maybe its not playcalling, but culture? Maybe Garrett has created a culture that its ok to lose if Romo doesn't play. You don't have to make the extra effort to get out of bounds, you don't have to make the extra effort to catch that pass that is slightly behind you, you don't have to make that extra effort to hold your block just a second longer, because we are not expecting to win without Romo.

What I saw yesterday was the Giant's head coach get in the face of a TE that dropped a 3rd down pass and the head coach of the Cowboy's pat a player on the back after a huge gaffe costed the team a chance to win a game. Maybe that sends a message to the rest of the team that its ok, we didn't expect to win anyways.

I really started thinking about this when a reporter asked Cole Beasly about Williams not getting out of bounds to stop the clock and he said that "it probably didn't matter, that would have been a long arse FG anyways".

So the message is that if you screw up, don't worry about it, we probably were not going to win anyways without Romo. Now maybe its starting to become a little more clear why this team has lost 13 out of 14 games without Romo.

Beasley said that?
Sit that loser down!

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Here is a thought.
Hire Jimmy Johnson as a "consultant" to scream in the faces of idiots who make idiot plays and remarks like Beasely.

The word is ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!

 

[iamliko22]

When williams didn't go out.. I thought textbook cowboys loss. Needless to say I agree with title.

 

[xwalker]

I was questioning my friend Idgit in another thread as to why Dallas seems to be the only team in the league that cant win games regardless of who the backup is. He stated we are losing games with our backup QBs (currently 1-13) because key starters are not making the plays that are there to be made and I agree 100% with that assessment.

The next logical question would be "why do the key starters on other teams make plays for their backups, but not in Dallas?"

Maybe its not playcalling, but culture? Maybe Garrett has created a culture that its ok to lose if Romo doesn't play. You don't have to make the extra effort to get out of bounds, you don't have to make the extra effort to catch that pass that is slightly behind you, you don't have to make that extra effort to hold your block just a second longer, because we are not expecting to win without Romo.

What I saw yesterday was the Giant's head coach get in the face of a TE that dropped a 3rd down pass and the head coach of the Cowboy's pat a player on the back after a huge gaffe costed the team a chance to win a game. Maybe that sends a message to the rest of the team that its ok, we didn't expect to win anyways.

I really started thinking about this when a reporter asked Cole Beasly about Williams not getting out of bounds to stop the clock and he said that "it probably didn't matter, that would have been a long arse FG anyways".

So the message is that if you screw up, don't worry about it, we probably were not going to win anyways without Romo. Now maybe its starting to become a little more clear why this team has lost 13 out of 14 games without Romo.

Good point about Beasley but I don't think culture is the problem. They've just have bad backups before Dak. They won some games with Kitna, IIRC but the backups since have been terrible. Dak is a rookie starting his 1st NFL game against a team with a veteran Super Bowl winning QB.