Maybe Pacman has seen the light...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There wasn't so much a new policy as it is an updated policy. At a glance, the NFLPA and NFL agreed to re-structure the disciplinary actions and strengthen the various support systems already in place.

----------
This is where the NFL has Pacman. It wasn't added to the new policy. It was already there.

contract amendments still have effective dates.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Under the old Conduct Policy
---------

Prohibited Conduct
It will be considered conduct detrimental for Covered Persons to engage in (or to aid, abet or conspire to engage in or to incite) violent and/or criminal activity. Examples of such Prohibited Conduct include, without limitation: any crime involving the use or threat of physical violence to a person or persons; the use of a deadly weapon in the commission of a crime; possession or distribution of a weapon in violation of state or federal law; involvement in "hate crimes" or crimes of domestic violence; theft, larceny or other property crimes; sex offenses; racketeering; money laundering; obstruction of justice; resisting arrest; fraud; and violent or threatening conduct. Additionally, Covered Persons shall not by their words or conduct suggest that criminal activity is acceptable or condoned within the NFL.

Persons Charged With Criminal Activity
Any Covered Person arrested for or charged with conduct prohibited by this policy will be required to undergo an immediate, mandatory clinical evaluation and, if directed, appropriate counseling. Such evaluation and counseling must be performed under the direction and supervision of the NFL Vice President of Player and Employee Development. Failure to cooperate with evaluation and counseling (including being arrested for or charged with additional criminal activity during the evaluation and counseling period) shall itself be conduct detrimental to the National Football League and shall be punishable by fine or suspension at the discretion of the Commissioner.

Persons Convicted of Criminal Activity
Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a criminal violation (including a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nob contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangement) will be subject to discipline as determined by the Commissioner. Such discipline may include a fine, suspension without pay and/or banishment from the League. Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a second criminal violation will be suspended without pay or banished for a period of time to be determined by the Commissioner.

-----------------------
Personal Conduct Blurbs provided by PFT

"Illegal or irresponsible conduct," the policy states, "does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL."

On the key question of whether discipline may be imposed for conduct that does not result in a criminal conviction, the policy is somewhat vague. Though a broad range of criminal offenses is included, the new policy also lists behavior that is not necessarily criminal.

Regarding criminal offenses, the new policy appears to infringe on the steroids and substance abuse policies by bringing within the purview of the Personal Conduct Policy criminal offenses relating to steroids, prohibited substances, or substances of abuse.

The new policy also expressly contemplates that the league will have the ability to conduct its own investigation regarding allegations of misconduct, which may include interviews and other information gathering, and the policy indicates that, in appropriate cases, the player will have the ability to address the conduct via a lawyer or union representative. This portion of the policy creates, in our view, a loosely defined quasi-judicial component that the league isn't automatically required to use in every case but only on an as-needed basis.

The new policy is aggressive as to repeat offenders. Though, for a first offense, a player will generally not be disciplined until the criminal proceeding is resolved or, in the case of violations not the result of an arrest, the internal investigation is concluded, subsequent violations permit the Commissioner to "impose discipline on an expedited basis for persons who have been assigned a probationary period."

The probationary period is a key component of the new policy, giving the Commissioner the ability to crack down on a player who, for example, is arrested but not convicted following a violation of the policy. This is similar to the concept of a probation violation, which in the criminal justice system can put a guy like Tank Johnson in jail pursuant to a standard far lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Under the old Conduct Policy
---------

Prohibited Conduct
It will be considered conduct detrimental for Covered Persons to engage in (or to aid, abet or conspire to engage in or to incite) violent and/or criminal activity. Examples of such Prohibited Conduct include, without limitation: any crime involving the use or threat of physical violence to a person or persons; the use of a deadly weapon in the commission of a crime; possession or distribution of a weapon in violation of state or federal law; involvement in "hate crimes" or crimes of domestic violence; theft, larceny or other property crimes; sex offenses; racketeering; money laundering; obstruction of justice; resisting arrest; fraud; and violent or threatening conduct. Additionally, Covered Persons shall not by their words or conduct suggest that criminal activity is acceptable or condoned within the NFL.

Persons Charged With Criminal Activity
Any Covered Person arrested for or charged with conduct prohibited by this policy will be required to undergo an immediate, mandatory clinical evaluation and, if directed, appropriate counseling. Such evaluation and counseling must be performed under the direction and supervision of the NFL Vice President of Player and Employee Development. Failure to cooperate with evaluation and counseling (including being arrested for or charged with additional criminal activity during the evaluation and counseling period) shall itself be conduct detrimental to the National Football League and shall be punishable by fine or suspension at the discretion of the Commissioner.

Persons Convicted of Criminal Activity
Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a criminal violation (including a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nob contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangement) will be subject to discipline as determined by the Commissioner. Such discipline may include a fine, suspension without pay and/or banishment from the League. Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a second criminal violation will be suspended without pay or banished for a period of time to be determined by the Commissioner.

-----------------------
Personal Conduct Blurbs provided by PFT

"Illegal or irresponsible conduct," the policy states, "does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL."

On the key question of whether discipline may be imposed for conduct that does not result in a criminal conviction, the policy is somewhat vague. Though a broad range of criminal offenses is included, the new policy also lists behavior that is not necessarily criminal.

Regarding criminal offenses, the new policy appears to infringe on the steroids and substance abuse policies by bringing within the purview of the Personal Conduct Policy criminal offenses relating to steroids, prohibited substances, or substances of abuse.

The new policy also expressly contemplates that the league will have the ability to conduct its own investigation regarding allegations of misconduct, which may include interviews and other information gathering, and the policy indicates that, in appropriate cases, the player will have the ability to address the conduct via a lawyer or union representative. This portion of the policy creates, in our view, a loosely defined quasi-judicial component that the league isn't automatically required to use in every case but only on an as-needed basis.

The new policy is aggressive as to repeat offenders. Though, for a first offense, a player will generally not be disciplined until the criminal proceeding is resolved or, in the case of violations not the result of an arrest, the internal investigation is concluded, subsequent violations permit the Commissioner to "impose discipline on an expedited basis for persons who have been assigned a probationary period."

The probationary period is a key component of the new policy, giving the Commissioner the ability to crack down on a player who, for example, is arrested but not convicted following a violation of the policy. This is similar to the concept of a probation violation, which in the criminal justice system can put a guy like Tank Johnson in jail pursuant to a standard far lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Well, according to this, I'd say the Commish pretty much as the power to impose, based on the language stated here, and make it stick.

 

[WoodysGirl]

contract amendments still have effective dates.

I'm not sure I understand the point your making. That blurb was not a recent amendment. That blurb had been reported by other outlets as a way to apply discipline to Pacman without worrying about all the other issues like conviction and charges. He was arrested and didn't report it. That's a violation of the policy. This wasn't instituted in the new policy in relation to the things I've read.

The new policy strengthens what was there and widens the scope of what it falls under.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Well, according to this, I'd say the Commish pretty much as the power to impose, based on the language stated here, and make it stick.

Yep...and now the NFLPA is getting hammered, because even if they appeal, they can only appeal to the Commish. They didn't negotiate the right to argue it in front of an arbitrator. The only way to re-negotiate that right is to prolly give up something that they gain under the CBA.


another PFT blurb

Though it's unclear whether the league ever intended to go so far -- or whether the union had a role in negotiating a lower penalty -- the reality is that the league could have kicked them both out, without recourse.​

As we've previously explained, the appeal rights under the Personal Conduct Policy are limited to review by the Commissioner "or his designee." So unless the Commish simply changes his mind, the decision made the first time around likely won't be any different than the decision made the second time around. Though some might regard a reduction in penalty on appeal as an act of mercy, others would view it as evidence of wishy-washiness. Thus, we'd be shocked if the Commish were to ever shorten as part of the appellate process a suspension imposed under the Personal Conduct Policy.​

The problem, to our increasing amazement, is that the NFLPA has done nothing to secure a genuine appellate review process as part of the negotiations culminating in the revised Personal Conduct Policy.​

Said one league insider: "How do they approve a new policy that gives the Commissioner the ability to suspend the players and then he hears the appeals on the same issue? This is exactly what the NFLPA is supposed to protect the players from. The NFLPA accepted new rules outside of the CBA and not only did not receive any concessions but they do not have a true appeal process. The NFLPA's current appeal process was bad enough with everything going to [Roger] Kaplan, and you would have thought they learned something going in front of Congress to defend their kangaroo court.​

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not sure I understand the point your making. That blurb was not a recent amendment. That blurb had been reported by other outlets as a way to apply discipline to Pacman without worrying about all the other issues like conviction and charges. He was arrested and didn't report it. That's a violation of the policy. This wasn't instituted in the new policy in relation to the things I've read.

The new policy strengthens what was there and widens the scope of what it falls under.

kk fair enough. i read that before and i saw that part about mandatory counseling but i had not seen the portion that a subsequent arrest could result in suspension.

i was under the impression because they chose to wait until the day the new policy was in effect to do this that they acted under the new policy. and as such the effective dates for the amendmenst would be key.

i still dont think its right that little, lewis and lewis got at most 3 game suspensions and he gets hammered for 16.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yep...and now the NFLPA is getting hammered, because even if they appeal, they can only appeal to the Commish. They didn't negotiate the right to argue it in front of an arbitrator. The only way to re-negotiate that right is to prolly give up something that they gain under the CBA.


another PFT blurb

Though it's unclear whether the league ever intended to go so far -- or whether the union had a role in negotiating a lower penalty -- the reality is that the league could have kicked them both out, without recourse.​

As we've previously explained, the appeal rights under the Personal Conduct Policy are limited to review by the Commissioner "or his designee." So unless the Commish simply changes his mind, the decision made the first time around likely won't be any different than the decision made the second time around. Though some might regard a reduction in penalty on appeal as an act of mercy, others would view it as evidence of wishy-washiness. Thus, we'd be shocked if the Commish were to ever shorten as part of the appellate process a suspension imposed under the Personal Conduct Policy.​

The problem, to our increasing amazement, is that the NFLPA has done nothing to secure a genuine appellate review process as part of the negotiations culminating in the revised Personal Conduct Policy.​

Said one league insider: "How do they approve a new policy that gives the Commissioner the ability to suspend the players and then he hears the appeals on the same issue? This is exactly what the NFLPA is supposed to protect the players from. The NFLPA accepted new rules outside of the CBA and not only did not receive any concessions but they do not have a true appeal process. The NFLPA's current appeal process was bad enough with everything going to [Roger] Kaplan, and you would have thought they learned something going in front of Congress to defend their kangaroo court.​

the NFLPA is the worst union in professional sports. im usre the players wanted something done but the NFLPA just gave it all away.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yep...and now the NFLPA is getting hammered, because even if they appeal, they can only appeal to the Commish. They didn't negotiate the right to argue it in front of an arbitrator. The only way to re-negotiate that right is to prolly give up something that they gain under the CBA.

Yes, I think your correct. And really, the truth of it(at least IMO) is that the players nor the Union really cared too much about this issue so long as the money tree was growing. That was and has always been the primary issue for players and players union alike IMO.

 

[WoodysGirl]

kk fair enough. i read that before and i saw that part about mandatory counseling but i had not seen the portion that a subsequent arrest could result in suspension.

i was under the impression because they chose to wait until the day the new policy was in effect to do this that they acted under the new policy. and as such the effective dates for the amendmenst would be key.

i still dont think its right that little, lewis and lewis got at most 3 game suspensions and he gets hammered for 16.

I can understand that. And I realize alot of people feel that way. But something that needs to be realized is that the league is under new management. The way Tagliabue ran it is not the same as the way Goodell ran it. Tags was about money and making the league profitable. He did that. Goodell is about sustaining that profitability before perception becomes reality as it relates to the NFL become a league of thugs.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can understand that. And I realize alot of people feel that way. But something that needs to be realized is that the league is under new management. The way Tagliabue ran it is not the same as the way Goodell ran it. Tags was about money and making the league profitable. He did that. Goodell is about sustaining that profitability before perception becomes reality as it relates to the NFL become a league of thugs.

i alos have a feeling that there are guidelines that thte commisioner has to follow when doling out punishment. the reason isay that is because under the new policy the commisioner can hand out larger punishments for repeat offenders. if he had a free hand he could hand out whatever punishment he wanted regardless. if that is the case then the discrepencies between regimes become important.

im interested how this is going to play out. not only from the standpoint that Jones has hired counsel outside of the NFLPA but also how the players react to Upshaw once again doing nothing for them in the months to come.

anyhoo i have some things that need attending so ill be back this evening.

 

[peplaw06]

the NFLPA is the worst union in professional sports. im usre the players wanted something done but the NFLPA just gave it all away.

Yeah, like ABQ said earlier.... something like 80% of the reps were behind a stricter form of punishment. And I thought I heard on ESPN somewhere that the players were behind Upshaw, and behind Goodell in suspending these two.

Something else you have to remember... We know Little, Lewis and Lewis did some bad stuff, but as far as I can recall they weren't repeat offenders.

If the NFL had the three strikes rule that California has, then Pacman and Henry would be serving lifetime suspensions. Goodell made it a point to set the standard with these guys because they can't stay out of trouble.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah, I agree with you! There is no friggen way Pacman can live without a job for a year! The bastid might starve to death, huh?

this post is chock full of fail.

 

[Aikbach]

Pacman just wants to chase college girls.

 

[theogt]

Pacman just wants to chase college girls.

There's this great poster mocking those inspirational posters like the Cal Ripken poster that says "Perseverance" or some such.

It has two scantily clad girls making out on top of a pile of kegs, with the caption: "College: The only place where **** like this happens."

I'd post it, but I'm not sure how long it'd last.

 

[5Stars]

There's this great poster mocking those inspirational posters like the Cal Ripken poster that says "Perseverance" or some such.

It has two scantily clad girls making out on top of a pile of kegs, with the caption: "College: The only place where **** like this happens."

I'd post it, but I'm not sure how long it'd last.

Why don't you pm me the link?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

On Mike & Mike this morning, Golic said that Jones' agent is reporting that although he is not conceding the fact that he won't play next year, if that does happen he will re-enroll at WVU and finish his degree.

He doesn't show up with a bag of money and starts throwing it around.
And I wonder what degree that would be? "Communication Arts"?
Physical Ed? (Not that there is anything wrong with that).

Somehow I just don't see little Pacman attending lectures, studying and going to lab classes.

 

[peplaw06]

There's this great poster mocking those inspirational posters like the Cal Ripken poster that says "Perseverance" or some such.

It has two scantily clad girls making out on top of a pile of kegs, with the caption: "College: The only place where **** like this happens."

I'd post it, but I'm not sure how long it'd last.

There are a bunch of those type of posters at this site. One of my favorite sites out there.

http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

 

[5Stars]

There are a bunch of those type of posters at this site. One of my favorite sites out there.

http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

That is a funny site...

HeavyHitter on this board makes some real cool ones...very funny! He makes them about other teams and NFL stuff like that with those "motivational" pictures..

:laugh2:

 

[superpunk]

Yeah....this site is fun

http://img101.*************/img101/623/motivator8803247gu1.jpg

 

[5Stars]

this post is chock full of fail.

Not really, punk...it's just a poke in your ribs about Pacman needing to "restore his livelihood". It's on par with the stupid comments made from NFL or other rich athletes that always proclaim, "I can't feed my family on 7 mil a year, I need at least 12 mill...!

Pacman needs to restore his life FIRST, then he can worry about "restoring his livelihood"...you cannot live a life the way he does and have a "livelihood".

You can live in the hood, yes, but you cannot have a livelihood"...