Mayowa, Russell, Tapper, Irving

[wileedog]

No. 7) Who Will Lead The Defense In Sacks?
Bryan Broaddus: Benson Mayowa. I really do believe that the pro scouts got this player right from what I was able to see from the OTA practices and on his tape from the Raiders. He showed me the ability to capture the edge and I believe he has the ability to finish. I know the numbers don't say that now but at the end of the season I think they will. I also like the fact that he started his career with the Seahawks. Those scouts know a thing or two about edge rushers and they saw something in him that gives me some hope that he can develop.

If that's the case, why isn't he still with the Seahawks? Oh yeah, because the people who "know a thing or two about edge rushers" decided he wasn't worth a roster spot and cut him.

 

[Verdict]

Sure thing, you make a ton of baseless assumptions based on nothing more than a fan's hopes and call that "being reasonable"...

What exactly was it that I assumed? That these guys "might" turn out to be good players?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

This may seem irrelevant but I don't see how Lawrence's suspension was upheld. He took amphetamines and he didn't seem to be aware of the fact that it would lead to this.

Ignorance of what you took, really doesn't factor in to the decision.

He has matured and it doesn't seem like he did it out of stupidity.

Is there some maturity issue in Lawrence's past I'm not aware of? He made a mistake, but I just viewed this as isolated.

 

[Stash]

You taking the doom and gloom perspective isn't factual. It is your opinion. It may turn out to be true, but at this point it is merely an opinion. I didn't "predict" great things in my prior post, but merely state that it is possible that good or great things "may" happen. That is a realistic possibility, isn't it?

So why is it 'OK' for you to predict "good or great things" but when people predict "gloom and doom" (your words), that's 'not OK'? It's a clear and obvious double-standard on your part. And based on "factual" stats and evidence, this group hasn't produced anything to indicate that they can or will. Those "facts" are closer to reality than fan hopes.

Do you want the team to fail so that you can be right? If so, why do you invest so much time in being a fan of the Cowboys?

Not at all. But I don't consider it part of the job description as a fan to convince myself that things are good when they're not. We all hope the team wins the Super Bowl, but that doesn't blind us to its' weaknesses and needs.

 

[Stash]

What exactly was it that I assumed? That these guys "might" turn out to be good players?

That's not at all what you actually said. Maybe you should reread what you actually posted where you used "take over", "sack machine", and "sets the world on fire" to describe Tapper and Mayowa?

"Who is to say that Tapper won't take over and become a sack machine? What if Mayowa turns into a late blooming player who sets the world on fire? Neither are all that far fetched actually. Why don't we wait and see what happens before predicting doom and gloom? But what fun is being reasonable????"


Maybe you take that sort of hyperbole lightly, but the rest of us don't.

 

[Kaiser]

Other than the part where you credit both Selvie and Mincey with more sacks than they ever got, sure, great post.

OK, 7 sacks instead of 8. My bad.

The point is the same, people can't say Will McClay is incapable of pulling a silk purse out of low end FA's when he has done it 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[Sydla]

Yes, there are questions. That is factual. But it remains to be seen if what we have is enough or not. Time will tell.

Sure it remains to be seen but reality is that it's likely going to end up being not so great for the Cowboys, at least this coming season. That's simply taking history into account.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So how do you propose we find better talent? Pray and hope someone gives up on their talent by releasing them?

 

[Stash]

OK, 7 sacks instead of 8. My bad.

Also 6 sacks instead of 8 for Mincey. Your bad on both counts.

The point is the same, people can't say Will McClay is incapable of pulling a silk purse out of low end FA's when he has done it 2 of the last 3 years.

The point carries less weight when the 'facts' used to support it aren't true, doesn't it?

But I see what you're trying to say and while I can agree to some point, 6 and 7 sacks isn't anything to write home about and says more about a low bar for production than it does for success.

And it's a shallow well I would rather not be trying and hoping to go back to.

 

[Sydla]

So how do you propose we find better talent? Pray and hope someone gives up on their talent by releasing them?

Well for one, I'd be on the phone with Freeney ASAP. He's not great but he could plug a hole for us for a season.

But in reality, the time to find better solutions at DE for this coming season has probably passed.

I think it's fairly clear at this point the front office has botched upgrading the DE position, something they said was a need this offseason.

 

[Stash]

So how do you propose we find better talent? Pray and hope someone gives up on their talent by releasing them?

That's the 'bottom feeder' way of doing business.

 

[Stash]

Well for one, I'd be on the phone with Freeney ASAP. He's not great but he could plug a hole for us for a season.

But in reality, the time to find better solutions at DE for this coming season has probably passed.

I think it's fairly clear at this point the front office has botched upgrading the DE position, something they said was a need this offseason.

Put it right next to backup quarterback. They said exactly the same thing about that position too, then did nothing to improve it.

I agree about Freeney, and I would sign Hardy too, though I know few others would. But desperate times call for desperate measures and past mistakes have made this a desperate situation.

 

[AsthmaField]

That has to be one of the worst front fours I have ever seen.

The guys in the title of the thread are all DE's (although some do play some DT)... so that isn't the Cowboys starting front four. The DT's are actually pretty good with Crawford, Thornton, T McClain, and Collins. Collins, in particular is a guy that I really like at the 3T spot.

Until Lawrence gets back, the DE's will be thin, that's for sure... but once he returns after 4 games, 3 of the 4 front four spots will be in pretty good hands. If just one of those 4 guys in the title end up being pretty decent, the front 4 will be just fine. Even if they don't, with 3 of the 4 positions being set will allow the defense to apply pressure.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The guys you mentioned were supposed to be depth. I'm sure the FO wasn't thinking Tank and Gregory would screw up the way they did.

Well if they weren't planning for it with Gregory then they're stupid.

You have to be planning for that to be a possibility with a guy like him. If you're not then you're just flat out stupid.

 

[CyberB0b]

The Raiders let DMC walk for nothing last year and he gave us 1000 yards rushing. The Raiders aren't the gold standard of talent evaluation and even then, they didn't want to pay Mayowa. Time will tell, but Will McClay is the guy who pushed for him. McClay is also the guy that got 8 sacks out of Mincey on a bargain contract and before that, got 8 sacks out of George Selvie after signing him as a street free agent. Its not hard to imagine McClay that got another 8 sack guy - or better.

Russell and Tapper were both mid round picks but both clearly have the talent to do well and clearly would have been drafted higher if they didn't play in schemes that were bad fits.

Irving clearly has above average physical talent and would have been drafted but for off the field issues. He hasn't had any problems as a Pro and has the talent to be an above average player.

These threads remind me of the threads three years ago about how we had no OL and Jerry Jones was a fool to talk up a UDFA from the Practice Squad. That UDFA was Ron Leary, who started every game that season and was named to the All-Division team.

Jeremy Mincey hasn't had 8 sacks since 2011. With the Jags. George Selvie has never had 8 sacks in a season. What are you talking about?

 

[Falco78]

Still excited about Irving. I was more excited about him than Gregory anyways.

I'm with you on this one, I expect to see good things out of him

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm with you on this one, I expect to see good things out of him

Yeah, Irving has a little something to his game. To be so long, he still gets pretty good leverage... which is a pretty special trait to have at his height. The guy understands angles and leverage and is really a pretty good player already. What he did last year as a rookie without even having the benefit of going through camp with the Cowboys was pretty good.

I expect good things from his this year both at DE and inside at tackle.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

That's fair, as long as you don't then try to play the "maybe they'll be good" card when none of them have done anything. If you don't want to blame them for things that happened when they weren't around, don't try to talk them up for things they've never done either.

I said they are young and unknown. I also said if you could read that they may turn out jags but could also make plays.


I'm talking about you can't blame them for the team that lost to GB because they weren't on the team that lost that game.....try comprehending before replying

 

[Stash]

I said they are young and unknown. I also said if you could read that they may turn out jags but could also make plays.


I'm talking about you can't blame them for the team that lost to GB because they weren't on the team that lost that game.....try comprehending before replying

Practice what you preach.

If you "can't blame them" for what they haven't done, don't try to praise them for what they haven't done either.

 

[DandyDon1722]

Maybe one of these guys will find something deep inside himself and develop as a player and surprise us all. We're do for it.

Exactly right. We have gone a long time without a player out of nowhere who becomes a star. We need Charles Tapper to become Charles Haley.