McCarthy Says Dez Didn’t Catch It?

[khiladi]

YOU mentioned dive so I addressed the dive.

Are you going to answer my question above or is this the "incredulousness" I spoke of? Lol.

There you go again.. No, I mentioned a LOT of things, among them I mentioned dive AND REACH...

So you just now are trying to find a way out, by using all sorts of, well he didn't execute well, he tried to, but it somehow was not at a 187 degree angle or some other bogus reasoning, which all attest to the fact, you clearly see this football move, but like Pereira you are trying to flip flop around it.

 

[MarcusRock]

What does CLASSIC examples of a reach have anything to do with the discussion. The issue is whether or not Dez dived and then tried to reach to cross the plane. Of course he did.. All these irrelevant tangents mean nothing to what Dez did...

It has EVERYTHING to do with it because it was the deterninant for the GTTG rule applying. As I said before, you don't even know the mechanics of the rule. You were criticizing Pereira for what he said and this is backup for what he said.

So, sidetracking aside, are you going to answer my question or keep running? Was Dez' reach as demonstrative a reach as those other samples I posted?
Yes or No?

 

[khiladi]

It has EVERYTHING to do with it because it was the deterninant for the GTTG rule applying. As I said before, you don't even know the mechanics of the rule. You were criticizing Pereira for what he said and this is backup for what he said.

So, sidetracking aside, are you going to answer my question or keep running? Was Dez' reach as demonstrative a reach as those other samples I posted?
Yes or No?

1. I know it must be hard, because this is 'your thing' and your getting it handed to you, but facts are facts. I wasn't criticizing Pereira for what he said in 2015, I was pointing out that Pereira himself explained the football move exactly like I said which completely refuted your point regarding GTTG. We are discussing the fact that Pereira and I both clearly acknowledged that GTTG did not apply, but Pereira felt he didn't stretch enough.

2. I don't have to sidetrack, because you are trying to respond to my claims and you are doing it awfully. There is NO RULE that says the reach has to be as demonstrative as the above situations you brought up. All the rules says is a football move has to be made. The point being, bot Pereira and you are making up rules for 2015 as you go along.

 

[MarcusRock]

Yes and Pereira admitted he reached and qualified it as a football move. He just said he didn't think he reached enough.

If he didn't "reach enough," then it's not a reach that qualifies as a football move. He said that. What sense would it make to say something was a football move and then say it wasn't enough to qualify as a football move? Are you just playing dense or is this the real deal with you? Wow, you really have nothing.

Now go feign incredulousness and tap out of the argument in 3, 2, 1 ....

 

[MarcusRock]

I wasn't criticizing Pereira for what he said, I was pointing out that Pereira himself explained the football move exactly like I said

"Like you said" makes no sense. THIS is what you said:

Yes and Pereira admitted he reached and qualified it as a football move. He just said he didn't think he reached enough.

So again, 4th time. Are you going to answer my question about Dez' reach looking less demonstrative than others I posted?

 

[OmerV]

Yes and Pereira admitted he reached and qualified it as a football move. He just said he didn't think he reached enough. Then he flip-flopped in 2017.

And like I said, the NFl replay would have been on slow motion, so they clearly would have seen Dez pushing off and trying to cross the plane.

Pereira wasn't one of the officials, so citing him doesn't actually show that the officials flip flopped. Blandino was the head of officials, and he said it was not a catch and that the reach was just an action taken while in the process of going to the ground, and therefore control had to be maintained. And yes, the replay was in slow motion, and the officials ruled it incomplete after seeing that slow motion replay.

 

[khiladi]

If he didn't "reach enough," then it's not a reach that qualifies as a football move. He said that. What sense would it make to say something was a football move and then say it wasn't enough to qualify as a football move? Are you just playing dense or is this the real deal with you? Wow, you really have nothing.

Now go feign incredulousness and tap out of the argument in 3, 2, 1 ....

Let me explain it to you:

1. Dez dived and reached. That is TWO moves. So now it is clear you are not only acknowledging a dive took place, but reach happened as well.

2. Mike said he reached, but he believes he didn't stretch enough. Like I said, this totally contradicts your claim the rule was looking at it purely as GTTG. Mike himself believes that he didn't stretch enough. That affirms Dez did actually stretch which put the paradigm EXACTLY WHERE I SAID IT DID, WHICH YOU CLAIM WAS NOT TRUE. Then in 2017, I brought that video clip where pereira flat out contradicts himself in 2017 and says it doesn't matter that Dez tried to stretch because the GTTG rule applies, like you did. So he flip flop like you are flip flopping.

 

[khiladi]

Pereira wasn't one of the officials, so citing him doesn't actually show that the officials flip flopped. Blandino was the head of officials, and he said it was not a catch and that the reach was just an action taken while in the process of going to the ground, and therefore control had to be maintained. And yes, the replay was in slow motion, and the officials ruled it incomplete after seeing that slow motion replay.

Yes, I know they over-turned it. And they made all sorts of excuses to try and justify it, which is why I said, in 2018, after they've consistently tried to cover for this, they are basically saying it's a catch according to the 'new rules'. When in reality, it was always a catch according to the rules in 2015.

 

[MarcusRock]

There is NO RULE that says the reach has to be as demonstrative as the above situations you brought up. All the rules says is a football move has to be made.

Right. And officials have to judge that, don't they? Just like they have to judge that there was "time enough" for making a football move. So they judged that there was not a football move made. So what's your problem? Simply that you don't agree but have zero handle on the rules to even argue your point. You even made up that time was not an element of the 2014 rules. So I knew what I was dealing with from the start. You don't know the rules and then pretend to know how they should apply when you disagree.

 

[G2]

Why didn't Dez just run it in the end zone?

 

[khiladi]

Right. And officials have to judge that, don't they? Just like they have to judge that there was "time enough" for making a football move. So they judged that there was not a football move made. So what's your problem? Simply that you don't agree but have zero handle on the rules to even argue your point. You even made up that time was not an element of the 2014 rules. So I knew what I was dealing with from the start. You don't know the rules and then pretend to know how they should apply when you disagree.

My problem is the NFL has kept flip-flopping to justify the robbery they committed on that day. And the NFL has been trying to cover their tracks for years now, as is evidenced by what I said and quotes I brought. So no, you did not know what you were dealing with from the start, as is evidenced by this argument. You still have not provided any thing from the rule book where a stretch has to be certain inches. Pereirra admitted Dez STRETCHED. There is no rule that says he has to stretch a certain amount of inches. Dez also dived. You tried to argue that it was not like the examples provided, as if that dictates what the necessary style of delivery is when it comes a dive. You even admitted it, but added new words to the discussion, such as tried but didn't execute.

The fact you went off on tangents doesn't change this reality.

The quote of Pereira and the video is Pereira is right there before you. He flips his words and basically contardicts himself. You can puff your chest, maybe because you ref little league, and you feel this may redeem your L, but it's right there for you.

 

[OmerV]

Yes, I know they over-turned it. And they made all sorts of excuses to try and justify it, which is why I said, in 2018, after they've consistently tried to cover for this, they are basically saying it's a catch according to the 'new rules'. When in reality, it was always a catch according to the rules in 2015.

What exactly makes it an excuse? Because you say so?

 

[khiladi]

What exactly makes it an excuse? Because you say so?

If you haven't been reading my posts, which state my positions why exactly do you respond? How about you go back and read them to understand why I said it was an excuse. Did you watch the Pereira video that I provided from 2017 and the same quote from Pereira in 2015?

 

[MarcusRock]

Let me explain it to you:

1. Dez dived and reached. That is TWO moves. So now it is clear you are not only acknowledging a dive took place, but reach happened as well.

2. Mike said he reached, but he believes he didn't stretch enough. Like I said, this totally contradicts your claim the rule was looking at it purely as GTTG. Mike himself believes that he didn't stretch enough. That affirms Dez did actually stretch which put the paradigm EXACTLY WHERE I SAID IT DID, WHICH YOU CLAIM WAS NOT TRUE. Then in 2017, I brought that video clip where pereira flat out contradicts himself in 2017 and says it doesn't matter that Dez tried to stretch because the GTTG rule applies, like you did. So he flip flop like you are flip flopping.

5th time asking. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? Look at all this avoidance. LOL.

1. Dez was falling to the ground the whole way. So much so that he could not get off an attempt at either a proper dive or a reach. In fact, you see Dez' foot slip on his 3rd step which prevented those 2 from happening.

2. Again, your ignorance of rule mechanics is showing as I've said from the start. You get to the going to the ground rule by making sure the requirements for an UPRIGHT catch weren't made. That's why Pereira quoted the part of the rule from the UPRIGHT catch rule and why Dez didn't meet that. Because if you don't meet those, and you're going to the ground, then GTTG applies and we know Dez didn't meet those so every catch theorist tries to avoid it like you're doing here. So there's no contradiction. You and every catch theorist want to desperately avoid the GTTG rule so you create acrobatics to say Dez performed a football move where EVERY ANALYST SHOWS HOW HE DID NOT. I'm showing it in exactly the same way. This is why you avoid answering my question.

So again, 5th time. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? (Now you can claim incredulousness because I'm repeating myself, lol)

 

[OmerV]

1There is NO RULE that says the reach has to be as demonstrative as the above situations you brought up. All the rules says is a football move has to be made. The point being, bot Pereira and you are making up rules for 2015 as you go along.

The rule was actually a move "common to the game". You can argue that anything a player does is "common to the game", but that's obviously not what the rule meant. It wasn't mean to include every step, every glance or every turn of the head, otherwise there would never be a situation without a move common to the game. t was meant as a move a player having the control to make a cut or avoid a tackle or something along those lines. The judgement, as Blandino explained, was that the reach was something done while in the process of going to the ground, and not in a situation where Dez had control of his body.

 

[khiladi]

5th time asking. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? Look at all this avoidance. LOL.

1. Dez was falling to the ground the whole way. So much so that he could not get off an attempt at either a proper dive or a reach. In fact, you see Dez' foot slip on his 3rd step which prevented those 2 from happening.

2. Again, your ignorance of rule mechanics is showing as I've said from the start. You get to the going to the ground rule by making sure the requirements for an UPRIGHT catch weren't made. That's why Pereira quoted the part of the rule from the UPRIGHT catch rule and why Dez didn't meet that. Because if you don't meet those, and you're going to the ground, then GTTG applies and we know Dez didn't meet those so every catch theorist tries to avoid it like you're doing here. So there's no contradiction. You and every catch theorist want to desperately avoid the GTTG rule so you create acrobatics to say Dez performed a football move where EVERY ANALYST SHOWS HOW HE DID NOT. I'm showing it in exactly the same way. This is why you avoid answering my question.

So again, 5th time. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? (Now you can claim incredulousness because I'm repeating myself, lol)

5th time asking. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? Look at all this avoidance. LOL.

1. Dez was falling to the ground the whole way. So much so that he could not get off an attempt at either a proper dive or a reach. In fact, you see Dez' foot slip on his 3rd step which prevented those 2 from happening.

2. Again, your ignorance of rule mechanics is showing as I've said from the start. You get to the going to the ground rule by making sure the requirements for an UPRIGHT catch weren't made. That's why Pereira quoted the part of the rule from the UPRIGHT catch rule and why Dez didn't meet that. Because if you don't meet those, and you're going to the ground, then GTTG applies and we know Dez didn't meet those so every catch theorist tries to avoid it like you're doing here. So there's no contradiction. You and every catch theorist want to desperately avoid the GTTG rule so you create acrobatics to say Dez performed a football move where EVERY ANALYST SHOWS HOW HE DID NOT. I'm showing it in exactly the same way. This is why you avoid answering my question.

So again, 5th time. Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted? (Now you can claim incredulousness because I'm repeating myself, lol)

So he dived now and reached, but now it's not a 'proper' dive and 'reach'. So what constitutes proper?

Oh let me guess, the new scenario you have introduced.. something related to "slipped on the third step"...

 

[OmerV]

If you haven't been reading my posts, which state my positions why exactly do you respond? How about you go back and read them to understand why I said it was an excuse. Did you watch the Pereira video that I provided from 2017 and the same quote from Pereira in 2015?

Your position, appears to be simply that you disagree with the refs on the field, and in the booth, and the head of officials at the time the play occurred. Well, I disagree with you, and they disagree with you, so you really have no more claim to how this is characterized than anyone else.

 

[khiladi]

The rule was actually a move "common to the game". You can argue that anything a player does is "common to the game", but that's obviously not what the rule meant. It wasn't mean to include every step, every glance or every turn of the head, otherwise there would never be a situation without a move common to the game. t was meant as a move a player having the control to make a cut or avoid a tackle or something along those lines. The judgement, as Blandino explained, was that the reach was something done while in the process of going to the ground, and not in a situation where Dez had control of his body.

Yes, I know what the flip-flop explanation was after the fact. And do RBs reach to try and cross the plane while going go the ground?

 

[MarcusRock]

So he dived now and reached, but now it's not a 'proper' dive and 'reach'. So what constitutes proper?

Oh let me guess, the new scenario you have introduced.. something related to "slipped on the third step"...

6th time asking a yes/no question you're avoiding:

Does Dez' reach of the ball look anywhere demonstrative as the other samples I posted?

 

[khiladi]

Your position, appears to be simply that you disagree with the refs on the field, and in the booth, and the head of officials at the time the play occurred. Well, I disagree with you, and they disagree with you, so you really have no more claim to how this is characterized than anyone else.

You are asking my position, were you not? If you disagree with them, why are you then asking my position. If you are asking my position and you responded in this way, I am assuming that you didn't read the posts in this thread then.

Where, for example, is it written in the NFL rulebook that a dive and stretch have to in this or that manner?