McCarthy Says Dez Didn’t Catch It?

[khiladi]

6th time asking a yes/no question you're avoiding:

Does Dez' reach of the ball look anywhere demonstrative as the other samples I posted?

Where in the rule-book does it define style of delivery? Are those samples the authoritative examples of what constitutes "PROPER" football move?

I keep loving the new words you keep introducing, without defining what they mean...

 

[OmerV]

Yes, I know what the flip-flop explanation was after the fact. And do RBs reach to try and cross the plane while going go the ground?

Of course RB's do that, but taking a handoff and reaching is entirely different because the RB was already an established runner when he took possession of the ball and was in control of where his body was going. Establishing a catch is a different animal.

 

[khiladi]

The fact the NFL was still playing nonsense with this rule was the Patriots-Steelers Jesse Jones catch and reach, where they even ruled it wasn't a catch.

 

[khiladi]

Of course RB's do that, but taking a handoff and reaching is entirely different because the RB was already an established runner when he took possession of the ball and was in control of where his body was going. Establishing a catch is a different animal.

Are you saying Dez had no control over his body when he dived and tried to reach? How exactly can you perform an action if you have no control?

 

[MarcusRock]

Where in the rule-book does it define style of delivery? Are those samples the authoritative examples of what constitutes "PROPER" football move?

I keep loving the new words you keep introducing, without defining what they mean...

I keep loving your avoidance of answering my question. It clearly shows your standing in this debate. The NFL Rules are littered with judgement calls on what constitues "proper." This is one such rule.

7th time: Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted?

 

[OmerV]

You are asking my position, were you not? If you disagree with them, why are you then asking my position. If you are asking my position and you responded in this way, I am assuming that you didn't read the posts in this thread then.

Where, for example, is it written in the NFL rulebook that a dive and stretch have to in this or that manner?

It was a rhetorical question. I knew the answer - it is an excuse because you deem it to be.

As for the rule book, it doesn't attempt to address every one of an almost unlimited number of scenarios that can happen on the field, so asking whether it spells this exact scenario out makes no sense. There is, and always will be some judgement involved, and clearly the rule is that when a player is going to the ground he has to maintain possession all the way through the play.

The officials ruled that he was going to the ground, and that his actions were merely movements taken while in the process of going to the ground, and that he lacked the necessary control for a "football move". If you disagree, so be it, but I think you are way off base to act as if the guys paid to understand and interpret these things at the time had no idea what they were talking about and that you are more qualified to say, AND qualified to say they all covered it up with excuses.

 

[OmerV]

Are you saying Dez had no control over his body when he dived and tried to reach? How exactly can you perform an action if you have no control?

He didn't have the control to make a cut or avoid a tackle. Obviously any player can move their hands at any time, even in the air when leaping for a catch, but that isn't enough. The player still has to come down from the leap with control of the ball and on his feet and be capable of a move common to the game. His hand movements in the air don't qualify as that move. Same thing with going to the ground. A hand movement that could be done at any time isn't in and of itself enough.

 

[khiladi]

I keep loving your avoidance of answering my question. It clearly shows your standing in this debate. The NFL Rules are littered with judgement calls on what constitues "proper." This is one such rule.

7th time: Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted?

So provide those rules where it says those samples you provided are the definitive definitions of what constitutes proper... The onus is on YOU to demonstrate that, not I.

You were flat out wrong when you tried to argue this was about GTTG. And now you are sitting here adding a whole bunch of terms and conditions to try and justify Dez didn’t do enough, even though you admit he did try and do enough, but he didn’t ‘execute enough’ it didn’t ‘dive enough’ and so on..

 

[G2]

Where in the rule-book does it define style of delivery? Are those samples the authoritative examples of what constitutes "PROPER" football move?

I keep loving the new words you keep introducing, without defining what they mean...

There are two answers to his question. Yes or No.

 

[khiladi]

He didn't have the control to make a cut or avoid a tackle. Obviously any player can move their hands at any time, even in the air when leaping for a catch, but that isn't enough. The player still has to come down from the leap with control of the ball and on his feet and be capable of a move common to the game. His hand movements in the air don't qualify as that move. Same thing with going to the ground. A hand movement that could be done at any time isn't in and of itself enough.

So you are saying that stretching to cross the plane is not an act common to the game, even though Periera says it was, but he just didn’t stretch enough?

 

[khiladi]

There are two answers to his question. Yes or No.

and there is only one correct answer to the question, what does 1+1 equal. Both are irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Even Mike Pereira affirmed he stretched. Where in the NFL rule book is a stretch to try and cross the plane defined by ‘enough’ or ‘not enough’. I know it may be difficult to admit clearly indicates Pereira said a stretchers an act common to the game and Dez actually performed the act. Of course he also dived..

The ACT happened..

 

[khiladi]

It was a rhetorical question. I knew the answer - it is an excuse because you deem it to be.

As for the rule book, it doesn't attempt to address every one of an almost unlimited number of scenarios that can happen on the field, so asking whether it spells this exact scenario out makes no sense. There is, and always will be some judgement involved, and clearly the rule is that when a player is going to the ground he has to maintain possession all the way through the play.

The officials ruled that he was going to the ground, and that his actions were merely movements taken while in the process of going to the ground, and that he lacked the necessary control for a "football move". If you disagree, so be it, but I think you are way off base to act as if the guys paid to understand and interpret these things at the time had no idea what they were talking about and that you are more qualified to say, AND qualified to say they all covered it up with excuses.

We know what the officials ruled. The officials also have been flip-flopping ever since. Again, “the fact the NFL was still playing nonsense with this rule was evidenced the Patriots-Steelers Jesse Jones catch and reach”, where they even ruled it wasn't a catch, over-turning a clear catch, like they did for Dez.

And we also know you never read my comments on this thread, when I asked you if you read them...

 

[khiladi]

There are two answers to his question. Yes or No.

And it still makes his question irrelevant.

 

[MarcusRock]

So provide those rules where it says those samples you provided are the definitive definitions of what constitutes proper... The onus is on YOU to demonstrate that, not I.

You were flat out wrong when you tried to argue this was about GTTG. And now you are sitting here adding a whole bunch of terms and conditions to try and justify Dez didn’t do enough, even though you admit he did try and do enough, but he didn’t ‘execute enough’ it didn’t ‘dive enough’ and so on..

Judgement calls. And the guardians of the rules made the judgement on Dez and agreed with one another. The actual ruling was GTTG, so yeah, it was all about GTTG. However, after YOU mentioned "dive" then I addressed that by explaining how the mechanics of the rule works from the UPRIGHT rule to get to the GTTG rule. The fact that I overwhelmed you with things you knew nothing about is now why you're trying to sidetrack with this fake "ah ha!" jargon instead of answering my question. Speaking of which ....

8th time asking: Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted?

 

[G2]

and there is only one correct answer to the question, what does 1+1 equal. Both are irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Even Mike Pereira affirmed he stretched. Where in the NFL rule book is a stretch to try and cross the plane defined by ‘enough’ or ‘not enough’. I know it may be difficult to admit clearly indicates Pereira said a stretchers an act common to the game and Dez actually performed the act. Of course he also dived..

The ACT happened..

Answering a question with a question isn't answering.

 

[khiladi]

Judgement calls. And the guardians of the rules made the judgement on Dez and agreed with one another. The actual ruling was GTTG, so yeah, it was all about GTTG. However, after YOU mentioned "dive" then I addressed that by explaining how the mechanics of the rule works from the UPRIGHT rule to get to the GTTG rule. The fact that I overwhelmed you with things you knew nothing about is now why you're trying to sidetrack with this fake "ah ha!" jargon instead of answering my question. Speaking of which ....

8th time asking: Does Dez' reach look anything like the other samples I posted?

Nope, they over-turned the clear catch and have been playing “backtracking” ever since. The ruling was a CATCH.

Again, the onus on you is to provide what defines proper. The words used are ACT common to the game. The fact is he committed two acts common to the game, including diving and stretching.

you even tried to flop around that by arguing he was tripped on the third step, meaning you’ve just been looking for any reason.. You even said, he tried but didn’t ‘execute properly’..

It doesn’t matter how much time you ask an irrelevant question. It is still irrelevant. The amount of times you ask the question is irrelevant to the subject of discussion.

The reality is you have nothing to define what ‘proper’ constitutes, and I’m not going to entertain your sidetracking around it with these ‘samples’ that aren’t even in the rule book.

 

[OmerV]

So you are saying that stretching to cross the plane is not an act common to the game, even though Periera says it was, but he just didn’t stretch enough?

And you are saying it is even though Blandino and the entire field and replay crew said it wasn't?

You seem to think Pariera's voice is the only one that matters and all people should bow down to whatever he says.

And, in the end, you are just asking me to provide the same explanation that I already have several times.

 

[khiladi]

Answering a question with a question isn't answering.

Yes, I know. Which is why I sarcastically answered his irrelevant question to my question, with another question. It’s good you get it..

 

[khiladi]

And you are saying it is even though Blandino and the entire field and replay crew said it wasn't?

You seem to think Pariera's voice is the only one that matters and all people should bow down to whatever he says.

And, in the end, you are just asking me to provide the same explanation that I already have several times.

No, it was actually ruled a catch and then over-turner and yes, I am accusing Blandino of robbing the Cowboys. Just like I’m accusing you of not even reading my posts, while inserting yourself into a conversation asking questions that my previous posts already addressed.

 

[MarcusRock]

Nope, they over-turned the clear catch and have been playing “backtracking” ever since.

So your answer is CONSPIRACY! like the rest who can't debate these rules with me. Got it. At least the others here had the dignity to slither away hoping to not be detected.