McNabb answers critical column from NAACP leader

[Ashwynn]

I don't agree. I believe that there is racism that goes both directions in our nation today.

I believe that affirmative action is a "rascist" law. It fits the definition of Racism and Discrimination

Racism 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Discrimination 3. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit

Affirmative Action does just this. It gives special consideration based on a racial category vs. giving consideration based on merit.

It is a sad thind in my opinion. But it is the logical result of sins of men who are long dead. And I cannot necessarily fault a black person if he/she harbors anamosity for these past atrocities. I just wish it would all go away.

Yes you can. They are perpetuating this hatred. It was wrong when it first occured, but its just as wrong today. I am Irish, Catholic. with scottish ancestry in there as well. You tell me if I have a right to hate. Hell yea I do. The British has oppressed the irish for 10 centuries. Do I hate the British for there past acts. Hell no. I love the British island and the pple there. Why do I love them. Cause they have never done anything to me. They have not confiscated my lands, they have not put me in jail or injured my family by famine or plague. Now they did all this to my ancestors. But to me they have been to picture of kindness.

Its called stopping the violence. Its called being a bigger man. Its called doing the right thing.

It has to stop somewhere and some how. I have taken it as my provence to be part of the stopping. I try to do 1 random act of kindness each day, several if I have the oppotunity. I get crapped on and used and I do not cry about it, scream racism or anything. I shrugg it off and look for the good in the next person. If you all did this as well, guess what, soon there would be a lot less then no more hatred without basis.

It starts with you and your reaction to today. You can make that difference. If you want to, if you dont, you wont. Its a conscicous effort that requires re-affirming daily. Try it, youmight just like being a happy go lucky person.

 

[Mike 1967]

Yes you can. They are perpetuating this hatred. It was wrong when it first occured, but its just as wrong today. I am Irish, Catholic. with scottish ancestry in there as well. You tell me if I have a right to hate. Hell yea I do. The British has oppressed the irish for 10 centuries. Do I hate the British for there past acts. Hell no. I love the British island and the pple there. Why do I love them. Cause they have never done anything to me. They have not confiscated my lands, they have not put me in jail or injured my family by famine or plague. Now they did all this to my ancestors. But to me they have been to picture of kindness.

Its called stopping the violence. Its called being a bigger man. Its called doing the right thing.

It has to stop somewhere and some how. I have taken it as my provence to be part of the stopping. I try to do 1 random act of kindness each day, several if I have the oppotunity. I get crapped on and used and I do not cry about it, scream racism or anything. I shrugg it off and look for the good in the next person. If you all did this as well, guess what, soon there would be a lot less then no more hatred without basis.

It starts with you and your reaction to today. You can make that difference. If you want to, if you dont, you wont. Its a conscicous effort that requires re-affirming daily. Try it, youmight just like being a happy go lucky person.

Your preaching to the choir :- )

Greatest Commandment: Love God with all your heart, soul and mind
Second Greatest Commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself

 

[Hoov]

Ashwynn, you are basically saying all black and all muslin people are the same and speaking for an entire race and an entire religion, when you are neither a member of both, yet you seem to know how they all feel and think, dont you think you are oversimplifying things, and bigtime stereotyping as well ?

 

[Khartun]

Ashwynn, you are basically saying all black and all muslin people are the same and speaking for an entire race and an entire religion, when you are neither a member of both, yet you seem to know how they all feel and think, dont you think you are oversimplifying things, and bigtime stereotyping as well ?

I don't believe that he is referring to ALL of anyone. In the post he is replying to it is talking about someone who harbors animosity for past atrocities. He is referring to the ones who do this and have not ever been repressed or ever been a victim any of the abuses. And by doing so keeping the hate alive.

 

[Hoov]

I don't believe that he is referring to ALL of anyone. In the post he is replying to it is talking about someone who harbors animosity for past atrocities. He is referring to the ones who do this and have not ever been repressed or ever been a victim any of the abuses. They are just doing it to keep the hate alive.

Ahh, my bad...guess he said only black and muslin people have a problem with everyone else not all black and all muslin people. Still i think its presumtious to make assumptions that racism will just go away if those people will let go of the past, racism involves more than just the fact that peoples ancestors were enslaved, see LTN's post, there are many other factors involved.

I do think he is trying to come from the "why cant we all get along" point of view, but it is not so simple as to just say stop carrying hatred for the fact that black peoples ancestors were slaves.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ahh, my bad...guess he said only black and muslin people have a problem with everyone else not all black and all muslin people. Still i think its presumtious to make assumptions that racism will just go away if those people will let go of the past, racism involves more than just the fact that peoples ancestors were enslaved, see LTN's post, there are many other factors involved.

I do think he is trying to come from the "why cant we all get along" point of view, but it is not so simple as to just say stop carrying hatred for the fact that black peoples ancestors were slaves.

Blacks are not the only people in the history of the world to have been slaves. I don't see how living in the past solves anything and to continue to throw the race card around sloves nothing. after a while people get tired of hearing it. It is like the story of the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Khartun]

Ahh, my bad...guess he said only black and muslin people have a problem with everyone else not all black and all muslin people. Still i think its presumtious to make assumptions that racism will just go away if those people will let go of the past, racism involves more than just the fact that peoples ancestors were enslaved, see LTN's post, there are many other factors involved.

I do think he is trying to come from the "why cant we all get along" point of view, but it is not so simple as to just say stop carrying hatred for the fact that black peoples ancestors were slaves.

Well, in regards to LTN's post, I totally disagree with the statement "I agree the word 'racist' cannot currently apply to African-Americans in our society, because as a whole African-Americans cannot and do not benefit from racism. Folks like myself do." That word absolutely can pertain to them and if you don't think they can't benefit your kidding yourself. There are those who would keep the hatred alive so they can keep being "the victims".

 

[Hoov]

Blacks are not the only people in the history of the world to have been slaves. I don't see how living in the past solves anything and to continue to throw the race card around sloves nothing. after a while people get tired of hearing it. It is like the story of the boy who cried wolf.

The point is that its more than the fact that black people were enslaved by white people. And to continue to bring that up shows that this is the only facet many people are aware of, which means you dont understand all the inns and outs of it.

In fact most of the debates today do not even deal with slavery, they are running more along the lines of the fact that one race is definitely controlling the lions share of the worlds resources and there are many socio-economic issues resulting from that, (this is often termed benefitting from white privledge). It is rare that black people even allude to the issue of slavery when discussing racial issues today, they are debating what is going on right now, the people who keep bringing up slavery are the ones living in the past and ignoring the issues of today.

I wont argue or deny that the race card is sometimes invoked in situations that are not appropriate, that does happen. But there are issues that are not so easily dismissed as well, i mean just saying, oh get over the past, does not level the playing field.

 

[Hoov]

Well, in regards to LTN's post, I totally disagree with the statement "I agree the word 'racist' cannot currently apply to African-Americans in our society, because as a whole African-Americans cannot and do not benefit from racism. Folks like myself do." That word absolutely can pertain to them and if you don't think they can't benefit your kidding yourself. There are those who would keep the hatred alive so they can keep being "the victims".[/QUOTE]

maybe so, but becoming a victim does not sound like a lifelong dream to me, maybe some get some satisfaction from that, but is that really a benefit or good thing. in the longrun does that improve one's quality of life ?

 

[Doomsday101]

The point is that its more than the fact that black people were enslaved by white people. And to continue to bring that up shows that this is the only facet many people are aware of, which means you dont understand all the inns and outs of it.

In fact most of the debates today do not even deal with slavery, they are running more along the lines of the fact that one race is definitely controlling the lions share of the worlds resources and there are many socio-economic issues resulting from that, (this is often termed benefitting from white privledge). It is rare that black people even allude to the issue of slavery when discussing racial issues today, they are debating what is going on right now, the people who keep bringing up slavery are the ones living in the past and ignoring the issues of today.

I wont argue or deny that the race card is sometimes invoked in situations that are not appropriate, that does happen. But there are issues that are not so easily dismissed as well, i mean just saying, oh get over the past, does not level the playing field.

A level playing field is accomplished through education and when the drop out rate of Blacks and Hispanic is higher than any other race in this nation that is why we have an uneven playing field. More and more prominent blacks have also stated this fact. In life you make your own breaks and through education you have as much of a chance to succeed as anyone. I don't buy the cop out of the unleveled playing field.

 

[Mike 1967]

Well, in regards to LTN's post, I totally disagree with the statement "I agree the word 'racist' cannot currently apply to African-Americans in our society, because as a whole African-Americans cannot and do not benefit from racism. Folks like myself do." That word absolutely can pertain to them and if you don't think they can't benefit your kidding yourself. There are those who would keep the hatred alive so they can keep being "the victims".[/QUOTE]

maybe so, but becoming a victim does not sound like a lifelong dream to me, maybe some get some satisfaction from that, but is that really a benefit or good thing. in the longrun does that improve one's quality of life ?

I am going to get slammed for this....but...here goes.

I have a cousin that was like a brother to me when we were growing up as kids. We were almost like twins.

Today I have 3 children, a loving wife, a mortgage...a successful career. Succesful enough that my wife is able to stay home full time and educate our children. And I do not have a college degree

My Cousin is divorced...has given custody of his kids over to the state. Has struggled with drug addiction his entire life. Has stolen from every family member that would try and reach out to him....to the point that everyone..even his mother...was finally forced to cut him off.

Some would say the difference between us is the drugs. But I also struggled with drugs in my early adult hood. I had a severe drug habit from 22 to 25...until I finally cleaned up my act.

The difference between us....was that my Father never allowed me to make excuses. Whereas with my cousin...it was always someone elses fault. If he got in trouble at school, or made bad grades...it was the teachers fault. It was never his fault. This is the way his parents raised him.

I truly believe that this one simply thing is what has caused our paths to go in two diametrically opposed directions. He never took responsibility for his own actions....and I was forced to.

The most dangerous thing that you can do to a child (IMO) is in-grain this thought process.

And I believe that the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons do exactly this with some in the black community today.

 

[Hoov]

A level playing field is accomplished through education and when the drop out rate of Blacks and Hispanic is higher than any other race in this nation that is why we have an uneven playing field. More and more prominent blacks have also stated this fact. In life you make your own breaks and through education you have as much of a chance to succeed as anyone. I don't buy the cop out of the unleveled playing field.

sure education is the key, no arguements from me on that.

But when people want to discuss racism, you might as well look at the actually issues and try to understand what is actually going on instead of oversimplifying things. Im not posting on this issue to try to persuade someone to see my point of view, im just adding information to the discussion that is often overlooked and trying to clear up some misunderstandings that a lot of people hold as to what the prevalent issues are. If you dont agree, ok, but at least understand that their are a lot of factors involved, not just that some people are angry cause their ancestors went through slavery, that is oversimplifying the issues.

For a lot of people their understanding is limited to this, white people did a bad thing by owning black slaves, and that was very wrong, but that is in the past. And a lot of black people arent helping their cause today because they keep playing the victim and dont take responsibility for their current situation and some try to get over by playing the race card when it really is not appropriate.

As if that just sums everything up and that is end of story, no need to further discuss racial issues. And look at how well thats worked thus far.

I mean, were really not even scratching the surface here. And then some wonder why we even have these discussions cause they make people unconfortable, lets just sweep everything under the carpet and not look at what factors are causing people to have resentment toward one another.

And i noticed no one challenged the statement regarding the benefits of white privledge in America, which is what LTN was alluding to.

Hey, im not trying to start a fight with anyone over a touchy subject, and i dont have the answers to make everything work. im just saying that there is a lot to understand here, and its worthwhile to take some time to look at the big picture and try to understand how certain factors affecting differnt people living in this country and what is at the core of racial discrepencies.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't consider you trying to cause a fight nor am I upset about anything that is being said. I think people should be able to talk about this topic without getting bent out of shape. I just don't agree with the notion that some are being held back because of race, I think people hold themselves back with a defeatist attitude of saying well others are keeping me down when the fact is people keep themselves down. As for LTN that is his opinion and I don’t agree that a black can’t be racist. To judge someone solely on their race is racism no matter how you want to cut it. In today America I see ample blacks in high ranking position both in the political world and business world so I know the opportunities are out there for everyone if you’re willing to do what it takes to achieve those goals. Education and hard work are the keys and even the Rev Jesse Jackson knows that which is why he has his masters degree and his son has his, yet he will stand there and try to convince others that it is the white man keeping them down as if why bother trying. Great thing is I'm hearing more and more blacks’ telling Jesse to take a hike and that he does not speak for them.

 

[Hoov]

I don't consider you trying to cause a fight nor am I upset about anything that is being said. I think people should be able to talk about this topic without getting bent out of shape. I just don't agree with the notion that some are being held back because of race, I think people hold themselves back with a defeatist attitude of saying well others are keeping me down when the fact is people keep themselves down. As for LTN that is his opinion and I don’t agree that a black can’t be racist. To judge someone solely on their race is racism no matter how you want to cut it. In today America I see ample blacks in high ranking position both in the political world and business world so I know the opportunities are out there for everyone if you’re willing to do what it takes to achieve those goals. Education and hard work are the keys and even the Rev Jesse Jackson knows that which is why he has his masters degree and his son has his, yet he will stand there and try to convince others that it is the white man keeping them down as if why bother trying. Great thing is I'm hearing more and more blacks’ telling Jesse to take a hike and that he does not speak for them.

well again we may have different definitions for what is racism vs what is prejudice. anyway, i dont think you have too many people saying or feeling that white people are trying to hold black people back.

But socio-economic factors play a role in education as well. I can tell you that i would not have my daughter go to a philadelphia public school, my ex lives in an area of the burbs she really cant afford so that our daughter can go to an excellent school, and i try to give extra money to her or help out with a few things here and there so she wont have to move. But we both work and have one kid between us.

I know people who moved from my neighborhood in philly and they loved the neighborhood but had to move cause the public school is awful and they cant afford private school.

But a lot of the reason for the high drop out rate of hispanics and blacks is due to socie-economic factors, terrible public schools and so forth. I work with some people who graduated from public high school in philadelphia and cant do 5th grade math because they dont know how to carry the one when doing addition with 3 figure numbers. No one is saying that they were held back because of race, its socioeconomic factors.

So when discussing racial issues i think its fair to concede that one race tends to have more privledges due to better socioeconomics than some of the others. That is what is meant by the term "white privledge". Sure, there are minorities who are enjoying a great deal of success in america, and that is one great thing about america, that you have opportunity to change your status. Just because your parents are/were very poor doesnt prevent you from doing well like in some other countries. But on a whole you have a big discrepency of have's and have nots when comparing races. And i think that is what is at the core of racial arguements today.

 

[Mike 1967]

well again we may have different definitions for what is racism vs what is prejudice. anyway, i dont think you have too many people saying or feeling that white people are trying to hold black people back.

But socio-economic factors play a role in education as well. I can tell you that i would not have my daughter go to a philadelphia public school, my ex lives in an area of the burbs she really cant afford so that our daughter can go to an excellent school, and i try to give extra money to her or help out with a few things here and there so she wont have to move. But we both work and have one kid between us.

I know people who moved from my neighborhood in philly and they loved the neighborhood but had to move cause the public school is awful and they cant afford private school.

But a lot of the reason for the high drop out rate of hispanics and blacks is due to socie-economic factors, terrible public schools and so forth. I work with some people who graduated from public high school in philadelphia and cant do 5th grade math because they dont know how to carry the one when doing addition with 3 figure numbers. No one is saying that they were held back because of race, its socioeconomic factors.

So when discussing racial issues i think its fair to concede that one race tends to have more privledges due to better socioeconomics than some of the others. That is what is meant by the term "white privledge". Sure, there are minorities who are enjoying a great deal of success in america, and that is one great thing about america, that you have opportunity to change your status. Just because your parents are/were very poor doesnt prevent you from doing well like in some other countries. But on a whole you have a big discrepency of have's and have nots when comparing races. And i think that is what is at the core of racial arguements today.

Perhaps Affirmative Action should be based on poverty level and not skin color

 

[Ashwynn]

The point is that its more than the fact that black people were enslaved by white people. And to continue to bring that up shows that this is the only facet many people are aware of, which means you dont understand all the inns and outs of it.

In fact most of the debates today do not even deal with slavery, they are running more along the lines of the fact that one race is definitely controlling the lions share of the worlds resources and there are many socio-economic issues resulting from that, (this is often termed benefitting from white privledge). It is rare that black people even allude to the issue of slavery when discussing racial issues today, they are debating what is going on right now, the people who keep bringing up slavery are the ones living in the past and ignoring the issues of today.

I wont argue or deny that the race card is sometimes invoked in situations that are not appropriate, that does happen. But there are issues that are not so easily dismissed as well, i mean just saying, oh get over the past, does not level the playing field.

thats BS. I have been called Racist before for not allowing a man to cut infront of me in the grocery store. He tried and when I called him out in front of everyone else in the store, he cried racism and said he was in line and had to leave cause he forgot something and said the only reason I did not let him back in line in front of me was cause hes black. So this has nothing to do with resources or what I have that they want. Its pure Hatred. Plain and simple. he was in a hurry and thought he'd become 'special' and just walk on up there and take care of his business and get the hell out of dodge, with little consideration forthe other 10 pple that were waiting patiently in line to be served. When I told him I did not care if he was black or white, he aint going infront of me, and then he saw the other pple looking at him like 'what a dick' he quickly changed his tune and left the store with nothing, cause he knew he just blew his wad and got nothing in return. I hope he felt 1 inch tall and was embarressed all to hell. But you know what, I bet you hassn't learnt a damn thing and will try that out on anther person hoping hes not so sick of this crap.

In short, they dont even know why they hate us anymore, if its not that they think my grandfather woned their granfather, cause it sure the heck aint about resources. They just hate for hates sake.


And most of this started, btw, with McFlabb accusing a writer of racism cause he said McFlabb sold out and is throwing the ball more instead of running with it like he should in the writers opinion. The writer was black. D McFlabb is black. What resources are we talking about there?

 

[royhitshard]

And I believe that the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons do exactly this with some in the black community today.

AMEN!!

 

[jay cee]

Excellent points Hoov, and LTN. I agree with what you said. But I will add one thing to the point on the importance of education.

Entrepreneurship. I believe that one of the biggest reasons for the lack of economic success for African Americans as a whole is that not enough of us have looked to start small businesses that would benefit the community as well as the business owner.

Most of the convenience stores, dry cleaners and laundries in my neighborhood are owned by immigrants, and they have made a decent living and educated their kids by providing those services to the neighborhood.

But overall we have basically only encouraged our kids to "get an education so you can get a good job".

There is nothing wrong with that, but we have missed out on other opportunities by just focusing on getting jobs, rather than creating jobs.

I'm not naive, I know that racism played a huge role in African-Americans not being able to get the loans that were needed to start businesses. But if you can overcome 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow, you can definitely overcome that.

My last point on this issue is that every one knows mass racism did not stop with the end of slavery. Most sane people would admit that it was still in effect throughout the '60's, if not well into the 1970's.

While I agree that too many people waste too much time discussing race issues, and not economic issues, don't try and pretend that African Americans are only talking about ancient history.

If you do, you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Mike 1967]

Excellent points Hoov, and LTN. I agree with what you said. But I will add one thing to the point on the importance of education.

Entrepreneurship. I believe that one of the biggest reasons for the lack of economic success for African Americans as a whole is that not enough of us have looked to start small businesses that would benefit the community as well as the business owner.

Most of the convenience stores, dry cleaners and laundries in my neighborhood are owned by immigrants, and they have made a decent living and educated their kids by providing those services to the neighborhood.

But overall we have basically only encouraged our kids to "get an education so you can get a good job".

There is nothing wrong with that, but we have missed out on other opportunities by just focusing on getting jobs, rather than creating jobs.

I'm not naive, I know that racism played a huge role in African-Americans not being able to get the loans that were needed to start businesses. But if you can overcome 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow, you can definitely overcome that.

My last point on this issue is that every one knows mass racism did not stop with the end of slavery. Most sane people would admit that it was still in effect throughout the '60's, if not well into the 1970's.

While I agree that too many people waste too much time discussing race issues, and not economic issues, don't try and pretend that African Americans are only talking about ancient history.

If you do, you are only fooling yourself.

Good Post