stasheroo said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and that's essentially all they are - opinions.
For me, a quarterback isn't really elite until he shows he can win the big game. Until then, the numbers don't mean a whole lot. The NFL is about winning and if a player can't win when it counts, it's a strike against them.
There are 3 quarterbacks I see in today's NFL that qualify for that "distinction":
Peyton Manning
Daunte Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
They all put up "numbers" in the regular season, but fold when the going gets tough and the games really count. That's not the kind of player I want leading my team.
As for McNabb's overall numbers, it's foolish to discount the impact of the offense he plays in. The West Coast Offense is a quarterback's dream and always inflates their numbers. And the numbers in Philadelphia are definitely skewed. McNabb probably dumps the ball off to his running backs more than any QB in the league - a safe, high-percentage throw - and with a guy like Westbrook they're especially effective.
McNabb had put up good - not great - numbers before Terrell Owens arrived. With Owens, his numbers were exceptional. It will be interesting to see what they look like without the league's best receiver this season.
For me, the stigma of choking in the big game trumps any regular season numbers a QB may put up. Because if you can't win when it counts, the numbers matter very little.
For the most part, I agree with your post. I do not judge QBs by the numbers either. I don't think the numbers should be held against them but I also don't believe it should be the single deterimining factor.
To me, the elite QBs in the nfl, right now are Brady, Palmer and Payton. The rest, IMO, are a cut below. As I said yesterday, I would probably include Delhomme, Trent Green, Hasslebeck, Brees, Roeth Plummer and McNabb in this cut below. I don't exactly know what order but I would say that they are all pretty close. I would say that McNabb is probably in the top half of that second grouping but I don't know exactly where.
I guess the point is that if my choices are Elite and Above Average, I have to say Elite. In my book, above average is Bulger, Leftwich, Brad Johnson, Bledsoe, Brunell and probably Brett Favre (at this point in his career). To me, if McNabb is healthy, he's much better then that. I would probably say that Very Good is how I would classify him. To me, that suggest a position superior to just above average and not quite Elite. Elite, in my book is a term that would describe the very best. He is not that, to me but he is better then just above average.
