Mediocrity vs. change

[cowboyblue22]

if the gm and coaching staff were replaced on the dallas cowboys and a quality gm and head coach were hired with a quality staff the cowboys would be in the superbowl this year and would be competing in the playoffs for a few season s after

 

[gimmesix]

I think most would agree. But no one has the answer.

And I’m not sure Jerry wants someone who’d recieve more credit?

I'll acknowledge that possibility. I don't know if it's reality, but we do know that ego (on both sides) got in the way of Jerry's relationship with Jimmy, although Johnson has acknowledged that he was ready to leave. Jerry also has since acknowledged the mistake on his part.

Personally, I believe the Joneses would hire that kind of coach again, like they did with Parcells, but obviously I can't prove it. I think it's more likely when they finally give up on Garrett that they hire some up-and-comer because that seems to be what's trending.

 

[gimmesix]

if the gm and coaching staff were replaced on the dallas cowboys and a quality gm and head coach were hired with a quality staff the cowboys would be in the superbowl this year and would be competing in the playoffs for a few season s after

Wade's incompetence as a head coach wasted the good defensive pieces that he was given that should have put us over the top during his years. Garrett's "process" then wasted the rest of a great QB's career. Troy and Roger should both be thankful for the head coaches they had. Landry was innovative and knew X's and O's probably as well as anyone in the game. Johnson was brash and knew how to put the pieces in place and motivate them to win.

I know free agency and the salary cap have created a different age, but Bill Belichick shows what can result from having the right coach paired with a great QB. Such a waste here.

 

[Doomsay]

I'm sure the Joneses look at it from the standpoint that Garrett and Linehan produced a 13-3 record with a rookie QB the previous year so they deserve leeway. However, obviously some kind of change has to be made after those failures. I'm not saying that's right, but 2016 might have been the worse thing to happen to our team because it validated the Joneses' belief in Garrett, much like 2014 had.

So you've got, Linehan coming in as OC in 2014 and Dallas going 12-4 to win the East, winning a playoff game and conceivably coming within a bad call of getting to the championship game. Validation.

Then you have Romo getting hurt in 2015, Bryant also being hurt and pitiful backup QB play in a 4-12 season. Nice excuses to dismiss the failure.

That's followed by the 13-3 season with a rookie quarterback and rookie RB stepping in, ending when one of the greatest QBs of all time made a play to win a close game in the playoffs. Mucho validation.

And finally we have 9-7 for a season where we had to overcome our star RB being suspended, Dez playing injured, losing our star LT for a period of time, losing our star LB at times, etc. More nice excuses built in to keep the head coach, OC and even DC.

These things keep the Joneses focusing on those winning seasons and excuses for losing instead of what really matters ... almost all Super Bowl coaches take their team there within five years. Garrett hasn't even made a championship game in eight.

I don't disagree, but this is an outline for personnel justification not winning a championship. What I don't understand is the local support that Jones seems to have in Texas. How that fraud can show his face in any public setting that he hasn't bought outright, is beyond me.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I keep hearing coaching isn’t a problem and Garrett is just saddled with poor talent, the acquisition of which he apparently has no control over. But then I hear Will McClay is doing a bang up job because “just look at all the pro bowlers.”

Guess they’re just really unlucky.

 

[gimmesix]

I don't disagree, but this is an outline for personnel justification not winning a championship. What I don't understand is the local support that Jones seems to have in Texas. How that fraud can show his face in any public setting that he hasn't bought outright, is beyond me.

Obviously, the problems run deeper than just boiling it down to Garret must go. However, and maybe I'm naive about this, I feel getting the right head coach in here fixes a lot of the problems.

Have we done a poor job of fixing our defense over the years? Absolutely. Ultimately, that's a GM problem but it's also a problem with the coach's priorities. Look at how fast Parcells switched us over from a 4-3 into a 3-4. He was far from perfect, but Parcells came in with a goals that he accomplished quickly to get us back into the playoffs. His main failing was not finding the QB who could lead that team to success, but he had him on the roster. Instead, Parcells was behind bringing in Bledsoe and Testaverde. Those decisions didn't work out, but they were his decisions.

Now, we want to say that Garrett is at the mercy of the Joneses. I don't believe that's the case. I believe a head coach here can have just as much of a say as Parcells had if he's willing to stand up for what he believes he needs to win. As Parcells said, he might have to convince Jerry, but Jones can be convinced.

If we blame the Joneses for every personnel move that doesn't work, for not stocking the defense, etc., then we're letting Garrett off the hook. Truth is that they are all to blame because they work as a team in making the decisions they've made. The Joneses aren't going to leave the team, though, so the best we can hope is that they recognize that Garrett isn't the answer and find a stronger teammate who can carry them, like Johnson did and Parcells was attempting to do before he burned out.

 

[Doomsay]

Obviously, the problems run deeper than just boiling it down to Garret must go. However, and maybe I'm naive about this, I feel getting the right head coach in here fixes a lot of the problems.

Have we done a poor job of fixing our defense over the years? Absolutely. Ultimately, that's a GM problem but it's also a problem with the coach's priorities. Look at how fast Parcells switched us over from a 4-3 into a 3-4. He was far from perfect, but Parcells came in with a goals that he accomplished quickly to get us back into the playoffs. His main failing was not finding the QB who could lead that team to success, but he had him on the roster. Instead, Parcells was behind bringing in Bledsoe and Testaverde. Those decisions didn't work out, but they were his decisions.

Now, we want to say that Garrett is at the mercy of the Joneses. I don't believe that's the case. I believe a head coach here can have just as much of a say as Parcells had if he's willing to stand up for what he believes he needs to win. As Parcells said, he might have to convince Jerry, but Jones can be convinced.

If we blame the Joneses for every personnel move that doesn't work, for not stocking the defense, etc., then we're letting Garrett off the hook. Truth is that they are all to blame because they work as a team in making the decisions they've made. The Joneses aren't going to leave the team, though, so the best we can hope is that they recognize that Garrett isn't the answer and find a stronger teammate who can carry them, like Johnson did and Parcells was attempting to do before he burned out.

Garrett is terrible, he couldn't even get a div 1 position coaching job at this point. Most coaches get elevated because they have excelled at thier positional area of expertise or they have advanced strategic or organizational skills. Garrett has neither, he's a mercurial operator that has figured out how to appease Jerry and not make a Switzer blunder on the field, but he's still entirely a product of Jerry.

In the post cap era, you need a excellent coach with a lot of power to assemble his staff and players, that won't happen ever under Jerry.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We've changed our personnel significantly these past several years. New RB, QB, OL, CB, DE, DT, LB, and so forth.

We changed from a team that held onto vets to one that values youth.

We stopped signing big money free agents except our own pro bowlers.

We changed the director of scouting.

New stadium. New practice facilities.

We changed the DC and OC 3 seasons ago.

I get it. People want to ***** about Garrett or Jones but it's not about change. It's about angst over management.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Obviously, the problems run deeper than just boiling it down to Garret must go. However, and maybe I'm naive about this, I feel getting the right head coach in here fixes a lot of the problems.

Have we done a poor job of fixing our defense over the years? Absolutely. Ultimately, that's a GM problem but it's also a problem with the coach's priorities. Look at how fast Parcells switched us over from a 4-3 into a 3-4. He was far from perfect, but Parcells came in with a goals that he accomplished quickly to get us back into the playoffs. His main failing was not finding the QB who could lead that team to success, but he had him on the roster. Instead, Parcells was behind bringing in Bledsoe and Testaverde. Those decisions didn't work out, but they were his decisions.

Now, we want to say that Garrett is at the mercy of the Joneses. I don't believe that's the case. I believe a head coach here can have just as much of a say as Parcells had if he's willing to stand up for what he believes he needs to win. As Parcells said, he might have to convince Jerry, but Jones can be convinced.

If we blame the Joneses for every personnel move that doesn't work, for not stocking the defense, etc., then we're letting Garrett off the hook. Truth is that they are all to blame because they work as a team in making the decisions they've made. The Joneses aren't going to leave the team, though, so the best we can hope is that they recognize that Garrett isn't the answer and find a stronger teammate who can carry them, like Johnson did and Parcells was attempting to do before he burned out.

We haven't drafted much defense until the past couple of years. Whiffing on Gregory didn't help.

The thing is that last year Lewis, Awuzie, and Woods were outstanding rookies. Taco started to take to the coaching with his hands, timing, and recognition and started to come on as well. Irvin and DLaw stepped up and emerged as outstanding DL. Even Smith was better from game to game.

We fans really need to do is stop pretending like we have no shot next year and realize that if we can retain DLaw and Hitchens and add talent in FA and especially the draft that we have a shot to build on where we ended up last season on defense. It was not that bad outside of some soft spots in the zone in the middle of the field. The corners were handling the perimeter and the DL was getting consistent push and penetration.

The problems on offense were obvious. Verde sucked and it threw Dak for a loop. Plus the suspension. Plus bad fits at receiver. I'm not sure that there is a coach that waves a magic wand and fixes that. Instead we need to invest assets in the OL and WR. Draft, VFA, or preferrable doth. Resigning Cooper would a be a nice start but picking a couple OL and WR in the draft/FA would be tremendous.

Stop playing the blame game and look for ways to improve as opposed to complaining about things that are not going to change.

 

[gimmesix]

We fans really need to do is stop pretending like we have no shot next year and realize that if we can retain DLaw and Hitchens and add talent in FA and especially the draft that we have a shot to build on where we ended up last season on defense. It was not that bad outside of some soft spots in the zone in the middle of the field. The corners were handling the perimeter and the DL was getting consistent push and penetration.

We have a shot. There's always a possibility of beating the odds, even if it's unlikely. As I said in the first post, there's a clear pattern in the NFL of Super Bowl-winning coaches accomplishing it within their first five years with a team. There are exceptions to that, and we have to hope that Garrett is one because he isn't going anywhere unless he crashes and burns, which as a fan I would hate to endure.

I used to believe more like you do until I took a closer look at Super Bowl success. Garrett does not fit the pattern, so I have trouble believing our level of success is going to change with him. I'm not all gloom and doom about the team because we've got some good pieces, just like we did when we had DeMarcus Ware and Tony Romo and DeMarco Murray and still failed under Garrett. I don't see anything changing with him as coach, just new faces and the same old results.

 

[irving]

The Eagles basically have 2 starting NFL QB’s. That’s a competitive advantage.

But that’s what it takes. Whenever a team surges like we did in 2016 it’s about a surge in talent usually. Pederson deserves some credit but Wentz was on his way to earning MVP before he went down. And then Foles steps in winning SB MVP. Coaching helps but that’s about talent emerging.

To a degree you are correct, talent is definitely required to compete at the NFL level. However their are those that will tell you all NFL teams have talent, thus the saying on any given Sunday. The Rams essentially had the same team last year as the team that broke out this year. What changed? The head coach changed this past season. Fisher was terrible coach. Talent alone does not win in the NFL , it’s a mix of talent and coaching that wins.

 

[Diehardblues]

To a degree you are correct, talent is definitely required to compete at the NFL level. However their are those that will tell you all NFL teams have talent, thus the saying on any given Sunday. The Rams essentially had the same team last year as the team that broke out this year. What changed? The head coach changed this past season. Fisher was terrible coach. Talent alone does not win in the NFL , it’s a mix of talent and coaching that wins.

Id agree it’s a combination. But remember Fisher assembled the talent on the Rams. He just kept missing on a QB. Goff didn’t play much last year. And McVea deserves some credit but I’d wonder what impact he’d have in Cleveland this year? And we’ll see how things develop in LA.

But I’d trade for their QB, RB and defense before I would their coach.

And all teams do have talent in NFL it’s just not evenly distributed especially in the key positions.

 

[Doomsay]

I get it. People want to ***** about Garrett or Jones but it's not about change.

So, what's the point?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

We've changed our personnel significantly these past several years. New RB, QB, OL, CB, DE, DT, LB, and so forth.

We changed from a team that held onto vets to one that values youth.

We stopped signing big money free agents except our own pro bowlers.

We changed the director of scouting.

New stadium. New practice facilities.

We changed the DC and OC 3 seasons ago.

Two playoff appearances in seven years. One playoff win in seven years.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Two playoff appearances in seven years. One playoff win in seven years.

And before that it was 17 or whatever. You guys are going to cry until we win another SB. the lot of you should just make that your sig and carry on talking about something different.

MY point here is that a lot has changed in the organization over the years. That was what the OP was. There are certainly arguments tath not all the changes are good. Obviously after Denver won the SB the FA change has been lamented consistently.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So, what's the point?

Of complaining? There is none.

People that complain about things they cannot change and are not going to change are good for little but wasting time and breath.

 

[Bobhaze]

I've mentioned this multiple times.

Of the, now, 32 coaches that have won a Super Bowl, 28 have won that SB within the first 5 years of being the HC of that team. Pederson continued that trend winning a SB in Year 2. The four who took longer were:

Noll - But he coached in an AFC Champ game in his 4th year and won SBs in Years 6 and Years 7.

Madden - He coached in an AFL Champ Game and two AFC Champ games in his first 5 years in Oakland. Won a SB in Year 8.

Landry - He took over a new franchise and had to build the team from scratch. Was coaching in a NFL Champ game in Year 7.

Cowher - Took him the longest to win a SB but he coached in two AFC Champ games and one SB in his first 5 years.

If Jason Garrett goes on to win a SB, he will be the first coach in this history of the NFL that won a SB without at least coaching in a conference title game in his first 5 years on the job.

History is usually instructive. Unless, you are an unaccountable billionaire owner who thinks he’s smarter than all the previous history examples trying to teach him something.

 

[Montanalo]

I am reminded of the quote attributed to Bum Phillips, "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

I miss the home-spun humor and a coach that can actually coach.

 

[Doomsay]

Of complaining? There is none.

People that complain about things they cannot change and are not going to change are good for little but wasting time and breath.

Awww, still supporting Jason? That's nice.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Awww, still supporting Jason? That's nice.

I'm ambivalent about Garrett. My point is he is going to be coach next year no matter how much you guys whine about him. Repeating the same complaints over and over again does nothing.