Mediocrity vs. change

Diehardblues

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Obviously, the problems run deeper than just boiling it down to Garret must go. However, and maybe I'm naive about this, I feel getting the right head coach in here fixes a lot of the problems.

Have we done a poor job of fixing our defense over the years? Absolutely. Ultimately, that's a GM problem but it's also a problem with the coach's priorities. Look at how fast Parcells switched us over from a 4-3 into a 3-4. He was far from perfect, but Parcells came in with a goals that he accomplished quickly to get us back into the playoffs. His main failing was not finding the QB who could lead that team to success, but he had him on the roster. Instead, Parcells was behind bringing in Bledsoe and Testaverde. Those decisions didn't work out, but they were his decisions.

Now, we want to say that Garrett is at the mercy of the Joneses. I don't believe that's the case. I believe a head coach here can have just as much of a say as Parcells had if he's willing to stand up for what he believes he needs to win. As Parcells said, he might have to convince Jerry, but Jones can be convinced.

If we blame the Joneses for every personnel move that doesn't work, for not stocking the defense, etc., then we're letting Garrett off the hook. Truth is that they are all to blame because they work as a team in making the decisions they've made. The Joneses aren't going to leave the team, though, so the best we can hope is that they recognize that Garrett isn't the answer and find a stronger teammate who can carry them, like Johnson did and Parcells was attempting to do before he burned out.
I think most if not all Cowboy fans would agree.
But what if those type of coaches aren’t a realistic option?

Even if Jerry was willing to let a bigger ego than himself come in and recieve more credit who would want it ?
 

Doomsay

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I'm ambivalent about Garrett. My point is he is going to be coach next year no matter how much you guys whine about him. Repeating the same complaints over and over again does nothing.
Ambivalent says it all. It's binary if you care.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Should we try and play fraud neurologist like you?

Still holding on the the Jaylon thing I see; cannot remember what I said much either it seems. You hold on to that though. I barely remember you beyond the general whining and negativity.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Ambivalent says it all. It's binary if you care.

LOL so I don't care? Reminds me of a great quote.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.
 

Doomsay

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LOL so I don't care? Reminds me of a great quote.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.
Or, Garrett can't coach and you refuse to acknowledge it, and would rather master
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Or, Garrett can't coach and you refuse to acknowledge it, and would rather master

He does coach. You just don't think he does it well. Your mastery of our language leaves much to be desired.

There are some things he does well. There are some things he does poorly. I refuse the dumbed down binary paradigm of reckoning complex and dynamic issues like what makes a good coach.

You really need to get over yourself and understand that your way of looking at things is not the only one.
 

gimmesix

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I think most if not all Cowboy fans would agree.
But what if those type of coaches aren’t a realistic option?

Even if Jerry was willing to let a bigger ego than himself come in and recieve more credit who would want it ?

I don't know. Most coordinators want to be a head coach at some point, so I would think it wouldn't be too tough to land one if his name isn't Josh McDaniels. And it's the ex-coordinators who've stepped up in the last few years and led teams to the Super Bowl.
 

Doomsay

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He does coach. You just don't think he does it well. Your mastery of our language leaves much to be desired.

There are some things he does well. There are some things he does poorly. I refuse the dumbed down binary paradigm of reckoning complex and dynamic issues like what makes a good coach.

You really need to get over yourself and understand that your way of looking at things is not the only one.
Keep defending Garrett, that's what you feel compelled to do. It's all too easy.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Keep defending Garrett, that's what you feel compelled to do. It's all too easy.

By saying that he has some good and some bad is defending him? Oh that's right, anything beyond binary is too much for you to handle.
 

Buzzbait

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I'm ambivalent about Garrett. My point is he is going to be coach next year no matter how much you guys whine about him. Repeating the same complaints over and over again does nothing.

Well apparently your ambivalence hasn't helped either because he's still here and he's still losing.
 

Diehardblues

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I don't know. Most coordinators want to be a head coach at some point, so I would think it wouldn't be too tough to land one if his name isn't Josh McDaniels. And it's the ex-coordinators who've stepped up in the last few years and led teams to the Super Bowl.
Ok. So you believe an up and coming coordinator like McDaniels is going to want to be a puppet like Wade was or Garrett is? Only if they can’t land a job anywhere else.

When I see responses like this I don’t think all fans realize just how limited we are in potential prospects with Jerry.
 

Diehardblues

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Keep defending Garrett, that's what you feel compelled to do. It's all too easy.
You don’t have to defend Garrett to recognize our options are limited .

There’s nothing easier than joining the Lynch Mob to fire Garrett. I think we all can agree that we need a more experienced and proven HC or up an coming coordinator but why would we believe those are viable options?

What’s tougher is Plan B.. trying to figure out how to overcome the obstacles and handicaps Jerry’s dysfunctional organization presents. If Jerry won’t bring in a better HC then perhaps he’ll bring in better asst coaches and more talent to support Garrett.
 

diefree666

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You don’t have to defend Garrett to recognize our options are limited .

There’s nothing easier than joining the Lynch Mob to fire Garrett. I think we all can agree that we need a more experienced and proven HC or up an coming coordinator but why would we believe those are viable options?

What’s tougher is Plan B.. trying to figure out how to overcome the obstacles and handicaps Jerry’s dysfunctional organization presents. If Jerry won’t bring in a better HC then perhaps he’ll bring in better asst coaches and more talent to support Garrett.
its a terrifying thought that Jason Garrett might be the best we can or WILL get because of Jerry and company.
 

Diehardblues

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its a terrifying thought that Jason Garrett might be the best we can or WILL get because of Jerry and company.
It’s reality. Once you accept reality only then can you begin to look for ways to support and overcome attempting to make the best of a bad situation. We’ve come to accept Jerry. It’s really not that much of a stretch to extend to our HC.

We have to look beyond the normal solutions. Our normal reaction is to fire and replace but if that’s not an option then what? Do we just give up which if we hadn’t come as close as we did in 2014 and 2016 I probably would have or lower our expectations which is probably one reasonable option and or do we look for other means to prop up our situation?
 

cowboyblue22

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I'm ambivalent about Garrett. My point is he is going to be coach next year no matter how much you guys whine about him. Repeating the same complaints over and over again does nothing.
and at the end of next season every one will be where we are todaymaking excuses why we don't win
 

gimmesix

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Ok. So you believe an up and coming coordinator like McDaniels is going to want to be a puppet like Wade was or Garrett is? Only if they can’t land a job anywhere else.

When I see responses like this I don’t think all fans realize just how limited we are in potential prospects with Jerry.

And I think some fans overstate the effect Jerry has on coaches. Everywhere coaches go they have to deal with GMs who have their beliefs on how to build a team. It's no different here except that the GM is also the owner. What coaches are concerned about is going to a team where the owner is devoted to winning, which is exactly what Parcells had to say about Jones. Would they like complete control of the team? Absolutely. Who wouldn't when it's their job to win with what they are given?

The rhetoric on Jerry not being able to land whoever he wants is just unproven theory by fans who have no clue what these coaches are thinking or what they think of Jones. Just like I don't know if the opposite is true, although I have seen no evidence he can't get what he wants. Winning college coach with no NFL experience? Check. Another winning college coach with no NFL experience? Check. An up-and-coming coordinator seeking his first head coaching job? Check. An up-and-coming coordinator promoted from within? Check. A Super Bowl-winning coach? Check. A coordinator seeking another shot as a head coach? Check. Another up-and-coming coordinator promoted from within? Check.

Remember that Jason Garrett (then an up-and-coming coordinator) had the opportunity to leave Dallas in 2008 to become head coach of the Baltimore Ravens, a team considered to have a good GM situation in place. He was offered the job and also was interviewing with the Atlanta Falcons. If your belief about Jerry were correct, then Garrett would have got out of town as fast as he possibly could, especially considering that Phillips was our head coach at the time. Instead, it appears to me that your belief is just posturing from someone locked into this idea that Jerry wants puppets as his head coach.
 

Diehardblues

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And I think some fans overstate the effect Jerry has on coaches. Everywhere coaches go they have to deal with GMs who have their beliefs on how to build a team. It's no different here except that the GM is also the owner. What coaches are concerned about is going to a team where the owner is devoted to winning, which is exactly what Parcells had to say about Jones. Would they like complete control of the team? Absolutely. Who wouldn't when it's their job to win with what they are given?

The rhetoric on Jerry not being able to land whoever he wants is just unproven theory by fans who have no clue what these coaches are thinking or what they think of Jones. Just like I don't know if the opposite is true, although I have seen no evidence he can't get what he wants. Winning college coach with no NFL experience? Check. Another winning college coach with no NFL experience? Check. An up-and-coming coordinator seeking his first head coaching job? Check. An up-and-coming coordinator promoted from within? Check. A Super Bowl-winning coach? Check. A coordinator seeking another shot as a head coach? Check. Another up-and-coming coordinator promoted from within? Check.

Remember that Jason Garrett (then an up-and-coming coordinator) had the opportunity to leave Dallas in 2008 to become head coach of the Baltimore Ravens, a team considered to have a good GM situation in place. He was offered the job and also was interviewing with the Atlanta Falcons. If your belief about Jerry were correct, then Garrett would have got out of town as fast as he possibly could, especially considering that Phillips was our head coach at the time. Instead, it appears to me that your belief is just posturing from someone locked into this idea that Jerry wants puppets as his head coach.
Believe what you will.

And I’d agree Garrett not bolting for those HC positions is puzzling but I think it falls in line with what we’ve seen in that Jerry and Jason have an agreement that goes beyond the norm.

Fans still believing we have a normal situation here hoping for normal solutions I’d argue are in denial.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Well apparently your ambivalence hasn't helped either because he's still here and he's still losing.

Who said anything about helping? This convo started off with my saying that we don't matter to executive decision making.

Oh and we won 9 games.
 
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