Mickey and Broaddus fighting over Garrett again

[dboyz]

Here's where I disagree. We KNOW what happen(s)(ed) with all of the passes in your scenario. One did turn into an INT, while we ASSUME that Dallas just goes 3 and out on 3 straight runs. Why does everyone in defense of pass pass pass (not accusing you) always bring up this FANTASY SCENARIO OF ALWAYS GOING 3 and out if we call 3 straight runs? Who's to say, those 3 straight run calls don't result in a first down? Well never know because we hardly ever do it or give it a chance.

Yea yea pass pass pass clan that will bring up DET, that was with Randle not our pro-bowl back. Don't go there. Also, no one is suggesting Dallas call all runs in the 2nd half either. Just more runs than passes.

As for this notion that teams pass for the lead and run to kill the game, I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't think either Baltimore or Seattle came into the game with that sentiment on their SB runs. Even with their defenses, neither team thought that 40+ passes was the why to go.

I'm not calling you out in particular, just the overall thought that many have assuming well always go 3 and out if teams put 8 in a box and that running the ball is somehow useful only the killing the clock late in games and can't be an key factor in establishing a dominate lead early in games.

I'll have to go back and watch/research Sea 2nd half vs Den because I could have sworn SEA called a lot of passes with the run option for Russel (roll outs/ high %short routes) to keep the clock running. I could be wrong, but even if we ran those type of roll outs vs GB with Romos legs, there's no way GB comes back. Two different styles of play design factor in the equation.

There's a lot of blame to go around when you blow a 20+ pt lead, but my opinion that game vs GB the offense, it's play calling and design was just as guilty as the defense that game.

I actually don't think that we are that far apart on this. I wouldn't assume that running it is going to fail, but there is the thing. We know what happened with the play calls that did get called and I think we can agree we don't know what would have happened had the play calls been different. Here is my point. Hypothetically, if the Cowboys go very conservative and have three and outs, and the other team comes back, critics can come back and say, "they went too conservative, they should have kept doing what they were doing." Maybe they run more and win, but I certainly couldn't guarantee that based upon the way the defense was playing. We couldn't make stop. Losing the way we did were caused by a few factors: play calling, poor offensive execution, and poor defensive execution. If I was to put them in order of priority of causation, I would do this:

1. Poor defense
2. Poor offensive execution (mainly interceptions)
3. Play calling

 

[links18]

I'll give Mickey one thing, he tried for a long time to warn fans about Quincy Carter's issues, he did everything but call him a dope head and people wouldn't listen.

Did he try to warn Jerry?

 

[links18]

It is amazing what you see going back and watching the game/coaches film after time goes by. It is undeniable the defense was a steaming pile. But the mistakes on the offensive side of the ball in the 4th quarter were probably more on Romo than on Garrett (last 2 possessions ended in INTs). Also, GB didnt play 8 in the box as often as you think,

Dallas 36, GB31
4:17 - 1stdown Ball on Dallas 20.
Dallas I formation, GB 9 in the Box - Play action Incomplete deep at left to Dez (GB 45) . The ball was underthrown and tipped away by CB. It was a TD if complete deeper
4:08 - 2nd and 10. GB plays 2 deep, Shotgun, Romo sacked for -2yards after scrambling for 30yards. GB TO #1
3:57 - 3rd and 12. Shotgun. GB 2 deep. Complete slant to Dez for 13. 1st down
3:02 - 1st and 10. GB 2 deep but safety is coming forward at snap. Single back 2TE 2WR. Murray for 4 yards. GB TO#2
2:58 - 2nd and 6. Dallas goes 3WR, 1 TE, Bunch formation tight right and Miles WR on far left. GB has roughly 10 in the box stacked right. I dont like the formation as the run has been working in the tradition formation. Now, at the snap the Oline botches assignment. Matthews comes clean as Tyron and Leary block down the line to the stacked side. I think Tyron has to be responsible here. Romo spins away, throws to Austin who has a step, but the mechanics are horrible/Farvesque. Flat footed and soulders open, and it drifts behind Austin for the INT.It was designed as an ISO for Austin as Murray or the other WRs aren't looking the ball quickly. A completion ends it.

Dallas 36, GB 37
1:31. Shotgun 5 WR. GB 2 deep. 9 yards to Beasley
1:24. Int on a curl out route Beasley. It really looks like Beasley rounded the route and slowed up. He wasn't looking at the wide CB on Dez to see if he needed to sit in the zone...he kinda did both. There was no pressure on Romo and with a TO left, seems like there might have been other options.

The worst drive was the 2nd/last drive of the 3rd quarter. Up 29-17.
1:04 - 1st and 10. 3WR, Single back. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Murray in the flat
0:59 - 2nd and 10, 12 package. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Hanna on a curl
0:55 - 3rd and 10, GB single deep, Leary complete misses the stunt/dely blitz by Matthews up the gut and blocks down on the NT. Romo sacked for -13. Oddly, Austin runs a pick on Beasley's man and Beasley was wide open on the crossing route. It would have gone for 20 yards.

There was no excuse for 0 runs up 12 late in the 3rd. But the other drives had nice plays and either an Oline breakdown or Romo short throw/mechanics ended the drive

In other words, you're a Romo hater?

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Here's where I disagree. We KNOW what happen(s)(ed) with all of the passes in your scenario. One did turn into an INT, while we ASSUME that Dallas just goes 3 and out on 3 straight runs. Why does everyone in defense of pass pass pass (not accusing you) always bring up this FANTASY SCENARIO OF ALWAYS GOING 3 and out if we call 3 straight runs? Who's to say, those 3 straight run calls don't result in a first down? Well never know because we hardly ever do it or give it a chance.

Yea yea pass pass pass clan that will bring up DET, that was with Randle not our pro-bowl back. Don't go there. Also, no one is suggesting Dallas call all runs in the 2nd half either. Just more runs than passes.

As for this notion that teams pass for the lead and run to kill the game, I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't think either Baltimore or Seattle came into the game with that sentiment on their SB runs. Even with their defenses, neither team thought that 40+ passes was the why to go.

I'm not calling you out in particular, just the overall thought that many have assuming well always go 3 and out if teams put 8 in a box and that running the ball is somehow useful only the killing the clock late in games and can't be an key factor in establishing a dominate lead early in games.

I'll have to go back and watch/research Sea 2nd half vs Den because I could have sworn SEA called a lot of passes with the run option for Russel (roll outs/ high %short routes) to keep the clock running. I could be wrong, but even if we ran those type of roll outs vs GB with Romos legs, there's no way GB comes back. Two different styles of play design factor in the equation.

There's a lot of blame to go around when you blow a 20+ pt lead, but my opinion that game vs GB the offense, it's play calling and design was just as guilty as the defense that game.

One thing is for sure. Even if they stop us on 3 straight running plays, the clock keeps running. Three straight incompletions stop the clock.

 

[DanteEXT]

2:58 - 2nd and 6. Dallas goes 3WR, 1 TE, Bunch formation tight right and Miles WR on far left. GB has roughly 10 in the box stacked right. I dont like the formation as the run has been working in the tradition formation. Now, at the snap the Oline botches assignment. Matthews comes clean as Tyron and Leary block down the line to the stacked side. I think Tyron has to be responsible here. Romo spins away, throws to Austin who has a step, but the mechanics are horrible/Farvesque. Flat footed and soulders open, and it drifts behind Austin for the INT.It was designed as an ISO for Austin as Murray or the other WRs aren't looking the ball quickly. A completion ends it.

And that is why I have no issues with the play. Execution is another story. I went back and watched the TV broadcast a few weeks after this game. I don't have my charting available anymore but my recollection was that almost every time GB had 8-9+ guys down near the LOS at the snap on a run play the Cowboys only ended up with about a yard or so. I think Murray had one good run in that situation. With the way GB was lined up on 2nd down I think the Cowboys would have been facing at best 3rd and 5. Probably end up punting to GB with just over 2 minutes to go.

 

[jterrell]

various:
Mickey-- He is a homer but I like that. EVERY NFL team has a couple of these guys and Mickey comes by his honestly having been at Valley Ranch so long and becoming attached to the team officially. If Jerry Jones was feeding my family I'd support his every move too. No one should take Mickey seriously but you can enjoy the rose-colored media version of Rowdy if you just take him for what it's worth. If you hate Mickey you are investing way more energy than you should on what he says.

Broaddus-- He is a football guy and puts that first so right or wrong that is his lens. Love that about him and I think he is a valuable addition to the local media for it.
I disagree with him often but appreciate he is talking about football specific things and his opinions are not based on fluff.
With the current state of the media after him and Sturm what do we have???
Appreciate the guys we do have because it doesn't get any better really.

Garrett--Garrett's grade for his tenure is no more than a C. He has improved the culture and discipline at VR.
He has rebuilt the team into a youthful group.
His decision making has improved from dreadful to average and been on an upward climb every year.
His biggest weakness was (and probably always will be) offensive game planning so truly sitting that aside gives him a chance as Head guy.
He sabotaged Wade as a game caller and was doing the same to his self.
Play calling isn't about brains it is about instincts and experience; both of which Garrett appears to lack.
The upside of Garrett was always what appealed most.
Anyone thinking he was a quick fix was fooled by his short run of success post Wade. --that happens frequently when teams switch things up.

 

[jterrell]

One thing is for sure. Even if they stop us on 3 straight running plays, the clock keeps running. Three straight incompletions stop the clock.

if we don't run out of bounds or fumble you mean.

running the ball three straight times is generally stupid football.
this isn't 1960 anymore.

Tony Romo averages two completions for every one incompletion.
Two average pass plays inbound eat as much clock as three average pass plays inbounds.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

if we don't run out of bounds or fumble you mean.

running the ball three straight times is generally stupid football.
this isn't 1960 anymore.

Tony Romo averages two completions for every one incompletion.
Two average pass plays inbound eat as much clock as three average pass plays inbounds.

When you have a 20 or more point lead in the 3rd Quarter it's stupid to constantly throw the ball. How many times do we have to blow leads like this?

 

[DanteEXT]

I knew when they were up by 23 they would cough it up because even in the 2nd qtr they had gotten away from the run. Running the ball not only chews up valuable clock unlike an incomplete pass but wears on the Defense. If they ran for 1st 2nd down every series GB would not have had time to come back. When you have a 23 pt lead all you want to do is limit the possessions you give the other team. Parcells won 10 games in 03 by running the ball 35 times Per game Even though the YPC was awful because you shorten the game which keeps your d off the field as much as possible. Just can't afford to stop the clock with an incomplete never mind the INT risk as you saw against GB. Look at Murray's carries in the second half it was like 5/29 I believe. That is not like he was getting tackles for loss every play. It was the single worst play calling I have ever seen. They did everything possible to give it away. As they did against Detroit a few years ago as well as this year.

You must have been watching a different game because I don't recall the Cowboys offense ever working with a 23 point lead in order to even have a chance to "limit the possessions".

 

[jterrell]

When you have a 20 or more point lead in the 3rd Quarter it's stupid to constantly throw the ball. How many times do we have to blow leads like this?

One of the fastest ways to blow a 20 point lead is to change what you were doing to build the lead....

Continue to play football and worry about clock when you can actually control it.

3 runs eat about 2 minutes if you snap late in the clock. That's still 8 or 9 possessions you give the other team.
With our 2013 defense that's a possible 50 points you allow....

Dallas has to live with failing int hat situation but it isn't so simple as just run the ball more.
There were games where we ran the ball, punted and lost as well. The defense really couldn't hold anyone at all late.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You must have been watching a different game because I don't recall the Cowboys offense ever working with a 23 point lead in order to even have a chance to "limit the possessions".

The Cowboys led the game 26-3 at halftime vs Green Bay. That would be a 23 point lead.

 

[LatinMind]

The Cowboys led the game 26-3 at halftime vs Green Bay. That would be a 23 point lead.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

One of the fastest ways to blow a 20 point lead is to change what you were doing to build the lead....

Continue to play football and worry about clock when you can actually control it.

3 runs eat about 2 minutes if you snap late in the clock. That's still 8 or 9 possessions you give the other team.
With our 2013 defense that's a possible 50 points you allow....

Dallas has to live with failing int hat situation but it isn't so simple as just run the ball more.
There were games where we ran the ball, punted and lost as well. The defense really couldn't hold anyone at all late.

You are also assuming that they will stop us running the ball. I've seen games were we were running just fine only only to get pass happy and end up going 3 and out. That wears on a defense too. When you have a 26-3 lead at halftime , you should not be in position to lose that game no matter how bad your defense is. The only one that can beat you is yourself. I'm not saying go all run but when you can see that the momentum has switched to the other team, then you better have a more balance attack. Passing all over that second half didn't help us either. If we would have run the ball more, at least the clock would have kept running.

 

[DanteEXT]

The Cowboys led the game 26-3 at halftime vs Green Bay. That would be a 23 point lead.

Yes, but the offense was never on the field with that lead. By the time they got back on the field in the 2nd half GB had cut it back down to 16. That's the point I am getting at.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes, but the offense was never on the field with that lead. By the time they got back on the field in the 2nd half GB had cut it back down to 16. That's the point I am getting at.

Kind of nit picking there vs the broad argument. So GB came back out, scored a TD, the Cowboys went back out and scored a FG. So at that point instead of 23 point lead...it was a 19 point lead.
So sure technically you are right...but I think we all can agree the other posters post was on point and you are nit picking one stat vs the whole argument.

 

[Idgit]

Awesome.

 

[TheDude]

In other words, you're a Romo hater?

That's you're take away? Actually opposite...not a Garrett guy, but I try to be fair

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I've never really paid enough attention to either of them to realise that either of them were a shill for anything. I'm not a fan of either guy and don't have much respect for either of their football knowledge.

 

[Jerryrage]

There is a reason why Broaddus is no longer in scouting.

 

[links18]

That's you're take away? Actually opposite...not a Garrett guy, but I try to be fair

That's not my take away, but it will be the take away of the crowd that screams "Romo hater" anytime someone criticizes him in any way.