Mickey and Broaddus fighting over Garrett again

[Wolfpack]

It is amazing what you see going back and watching the game/coaches film after time goes by. It is undeniable the defense was a steaming pile. But the mistakes on the offensive side of the ball in the 4th quarter were probably more on Romo than on Garrett (last 2 possessions ended in INTs). Also, GB didnt play 8 in the box as often as you think,

Dallas 36, GB31
4:17 - 1stdown Ball on Dallas 20.
Dallas I formation, GB 9 in the Box - Play action Incomplete deep at left to Dez (GB 45) . The ball was underthrown and tipped away by CB. It was a TD if complete deeper
4:08 - 2nd and 10. GB plays 2 deep, Shotgun, Romo sacked for -2yards after scrambling for 30yards. GB TO #1
3:57 - 3rd and 12. Shotgun. GB 2 deep. Complete slant to Dez for 13. 1st down
3:02 - 1st and 10. GB 2 deep but safety is coming forward at snap. Single back 2TE 2WR. Murray for 4 yards. GB TO#2
2:58 - 2nd and 6. Dallas goes 3WR, 1 TE, Bunch formation tight right and Miles WR on far left. GB has roughly 10 in the box stacked right. I dont like the formation as the run has been working in the tradition formation. Now, at the snap the Oline botches assignment. Matthews comes clean as Tyron and Leary block down the line to the stacked side. I think Tyron has to be responsible here. Romo spins away, throws to Austin who has a step, but the mechanics are horrible/Farvesque. Flat footed and soulders open, and it drifts behind Austin for the INT.It was designed as an ISO for Austin as Murray or the other WRs aren't looking the ball quickly. A completion ends it.

Dallas 36, GB 37
1:31. Shotgun 5 WR. GB 2 deep. 9 yards to Beasley
1:24. Int on a curl out route Beasley. It really looks like Beasley rounded the route and slowed up. He wasn't looking at the wide CB on Dez to see if he needed to sit in the zone...he kinda did both. There was no pressure on Romo and with a TO left, seems like there might have been other options.

The worst drive was the 2nd/last drive of the 3rd quarter. Up 29-17.
1:04 - 1st and 10. 3WR, Single back. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Murray in the flat
0:59 - 2nd and 10, 12 package. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Hanna on a curl
0:55 - 3rd and 10, GB single deep, Leary complete misses the stunt/dely blitz by Matthews up the gut and blocks down on the NT. Romo sacked for -13. Oddly, Austin runs a pick on Beasley's man and Beasley was wide open on the crossing route. It would have gone for 20 yards.

There was no excuse for 0 runs up 12 late in the 3rd. But the other drives had nice plays and either an Oline breakdown or Romo short throw/mechanics ended the drive

What a mess. Look at the Shotgun formations….

Instead of running the ball out they come out in shotgun formations with 3-5 WR sets that get you sacks and INTs.

Murray had over a 7.0 YPC average going into the 2nd half…they couldn't stop the run.

That game is on Oppie and he's called a bunch of games like that over the years, he just doesn't get a lot of things about calling and managing a football game.

 

[Wolfpack]

I actually don't think that we are that far apart on this. I wouldn't assume that running it is going to fail, but there is the thing. We know what happened with the play calls that did get called and I think we can agree we don't know what would have happened had the play calls been different. Here is my point. Hypothetically, if the Cowboys go very conservative and have three and outs, and the other team comes back, critics can come back and say, "they went too conservative, they should have kept doing what they were doing." Maybe they run more and win, but I certainly couldn't guarantee that based upon the way the defense was playing. We couldn't make stop. Losing the way we did were caused by a few factors: play calling, poor offensive execution, and poor defensive execution. If I was to put them in order of priority of causation, I would do this:

1. Poor defense
2. Poor offensive execution (mainly interceptions)
3. Play calling

They finished the game with over 7.0 YPC running….

 

[khiladi]

What a mess. Look at the Shotgun formations….

Instead of running the ball out they come out in shotgun formations with 3-5 WR sets that get you sacks and INTs.

Murray had over a 7.0 YPC average going into the 2nd half…they couldn't stop the run.

That game is on Oppie and he's called a bunch of games like that over the years, he just doesn't get a lot of things about calling and managing a football game.

Not only that, with shot-guns, how many times do you have a RB in the back-field to make defenses think twice about whether your going run or pass. It's not primarily about ratios, it's about confusing the defense plain and simple. It's much harder to make a pass on a long route over a guy that knows a pass is coming, versus a guy who second guesses, because he thinks it's going to be run. It's also a lot more difficult to judge the way a WR is running, simply because he's battling with a DB for a while. You can't necessarily throw that accurate a pass, if Dez for example has to slow a little bit on his route while fighting the defender off.

 

[DanteEXT]

Kind of nit picking there vs the broad argument. So GB came back out, scored a TD, the Cowboys went back out and scored a FG. So at that point instead of 23 point lead...it was a 19 point lead.
So sure technically you are right...but I think we all can agree the other posters post was on point and you are nit picking one stat vs the whole argument.

Honestly I do not think it's nitpicking. The whole foundation of the post was based was philosophy that the offense should have been running the ball when the Cowboys had a 23 point lead. Unfortunately that was physically impossible. And after GB scored the TD to start the second, they did run the ball just like he wanted. Burned 6+ minutes and ended up with 3 points. By their next possession though it's a 12 point lead while still in the 3rd quarter. Now, if you want to argue they should have ran instead of passing at the end of the third with that 12 point lead and at least burned off the last minute, sure, no problem with that.

 

[CowboyGil]

The TEAM lost. The offense stopped running the ball and the defense couldn't stop GB. Plain and simple. Can we move on now?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The TEAM lost. The offense stopped running the ball and the defense couldn't stop GB. Plain and simple. Can we move on now?

Somps feet, clinches fist and yells...NEVER!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Honestly I do not think it's nitpicking. The whole foundation of the post was based was philosophy that the offense should have been running the ball when the Cowboys had a 23 point lead. Unfortunately that was physically impossible. And after GB scored the TD to start the second, they did run the ball just like he wanted. Burned 6+ minutes and ended up with 3 points. By their next possession though it's a 12 point lead while still in the 3rd quarter. Now, if you want to argue they should have ran instead of passing at the end of the third with that 12 point lead and at least burned off the last minute, sure, no problem with that.

We agree to disagree.

 

[DanteEXT]

We agree to disagree.

Okie dokie.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It is amazing what you see going back and watching the game/coaches film after time goes by. It is undeniable the defense was a steaming pile. But the mistakes on the offensive side of the ball in the 4th quarter were probably more on Romo than on Garrett (last 2 possessions ended in INTs). Also, GB didnt play 8 in the box as often as you think,

Dallas 36, GB31
4:17 - 1stdown Ball on Dallas 20.
Dallas I formation, GB 9 in the Box - Play action Incomplete deep at left to Dez (GB 45) . The ball was underthrown and tipped away by CB. It was a TD if complete deeper
4:08 - 2nd and 10. GB plays 2 deep, Shotgun, Romo sacked for -2yards after scrambling for 30yards. GB TO #1
3:57 - 3rd and 12. Shotgun. GB 2 deep. Complete slant to Dez for 13. 1st down
3:02 - 1st and 10. GB 2 deep but safety is coming forward at snap. Single back 2TE 2WR. Murray for 4 yards. GB TO#2
2:58 - 2nd and 6. Dallas goes 3WR, 1 TE, Bunch formation tight right and Miles WR on far left. GB has roughly 10 in the box stacked right. I dont like the formation as the run has been working in the tradition formation. Now, at the snap the Oline botches assignment. Matthews comes clean as Tyron and Leary block down the line to the stacked side. I think Tyron has to be responsible here. Romo spins away, throws to Austin who has a step, but the mechanics are horrible/Farvesque. Flat footed and soulders open, and it drifts behind Austin for the INT.It was designed as an ISO for Austin as Murray or the other WRs aren't looking the ball quickly. A completion ends it.

Dallas 36, GB 37
1:31. Shotgun 5 WR. GB 2 deep. 9 yards to Beasley
1:24. Int on a curl out route Beasley. It really looks like Beasley rounded the route and slowed up. He wasn't looking at the wide CB on Dez to see if he needed to sit in the zone...he kinda did both. There was no pressure on Romo and with a TO left, seems like there might have been other options.

The worst drive was the 2nd/last drive of the 3rd quarter. Up 29-17.
1:04 - 1st and 10. 3WR, Single back. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Murray in the flat
0:59 - 2nd and 10, 12 package. GB 2 deep. Incomplete to Hanna on a curl
0:55 - 3rd and 10, GB single deep, Leary complete misses the stunt/dely blitz by Matthews up the gut and blocks down on the NT. Romo sacked for -13. Oddly, Austin runs a pick on Beasley's man and Beasley was wide open on the crossing route. It would have gone for 20 yards.

There was no excuse for 0 runs up 12 late in the 3rd. But the other drives had nice plays and either an Oline breakdown or Romo short throw/mechanics ended the drive

There was also the first drive of the fourth quarter that resulted in a Dez TD. Two first downs by penalties converted third downs but there were multiple catches to Witten, Dez and Williams along the way. They wanted to go back to that and Romo threw multiple picks.

That throw to the flat at the end of the 3rd quarter was a good throw that Murray dropped. It was intended to be a safe ball control play but ended as another example of poor execution.

Fans can talk about needing to run the ball more but raw pass/run stats don't speak the whole story. Garrett did attempt some ball control pass plays and Beasley and Murray dropped the ball. While it may be fun to pretend that runs are fool proof, you can look to that Choice run several years ago vs. Baltimore that demonstrates the lie in that.

For some reason fans think they are qualified to do Garrett's job and know the ins and outs of what goes into being the head coach of the team. To fans it's all about last minute clock management and run pass ratio but I see that as gross oversimplification. Unfortunately, player fandom is quasi-political so you dare not bring up two awful picks from Romo or the play of Wynn, Brown, Lawrence, Ware, Leary, Hanna, Pellerin, Heath, Lemon, Scandrick -who played like **** that game- or Hayden.

Nope let's pretend that a run on 1st and 10 at the end of the third quarter would have been executed any better than the simple screen Murray dropped off his hip or that a run on third down wouldn't have seen Leary whiff yet another block.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Cannot forget Ernie Sims who is to playing coverage as a toddler is to driving a car.

 

[50cent]

I actually don't think that we are that far apart on this. I wouldn't assume that running it is going to fail, but there is the thing. We know what happened with the play calls that did get called and I think we can agree we don't know what would have happened had the play calls been different. Here is my point. Hypothetically, if the Cowboys go very conservative and have three and outs, and the other team comes back, critics can come back and say, "they went too conservative, they should have kept doing what they were doing." Maybe they run more and win, but I certainly couldn't guarantee that based upon the way the defense was playing. We couldn't make stop. Losing the way we did were caused by a few factors: play calling, poor offensive execution, and poor defensive execution. If I was to put them in order of priority of causation, I would do this:

1. Poor defense
2. Poor offensive execution (mainly interceptions)
3. Play calling

The critics are gonna have something to say either way, but again your hypothetical situation assumes 3 and outs! Why? Nothing that day indicated we couldn't run vs them. Nothing, but we always assume it will. Go look at our last drive of the 3rd qtr and the amount of time that ran off and tell me that's not mismanagement of the clock. Nothing justifies that drive but an absolute disbelief in calling the run because it's a necessary evil.

That drive alone should be grounds for dismissal.

IMO, the defense did enough of a job in the first half that the ultimate demise was:

1. 2nd half playing
2. Play design, not enough screens, bootlegs or draws!
3. Defense that played entirely too much in the 2nd half.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The critics are gonna have something to say either way, but again your hypothetical situation assumes 3 and outs! Why? Nothing that day indicated we couldn't run vs them. Nothing, but we always assume it will. Go look at our last drive of the 3rd qtr and the amount of time that ran off and tell me that's not mismanagement of the clock. Nothing justifies that drive but an absolute disbelief in calling the run because it's a necessary evil.

That drive alone should be grounds for dismissal.

IMO, the defense did enough of a job in the first half that the ultimate demise was:

1. 2nd half playing
2. Play design, not enough screens, bootlegs or draws!
3. Defense that played entirely too much in the 2nd half.

7.4 yards per carry with Murray during that game. Not sure why so many keep bringing up the 3 and out scenario either.

IIRC he only had a couple of runs that were negative yards.

 

[jterrell]

There was also the first drive of the fourth quarter that resulted in a Dez TD. Two first downs by penalties converted third downs but there were multiple catches to Witten, Dez and Williams along the way. They wanted to go back to that and Romo threw multiple picks.

That throw to the flat at the end of the 3rd quarter was a good throw that Murray dropped. It was intended to be a safe ball control play but ended as another example of poor execution.

Fans can talk about needing to run the ball more but raw pass/run stats don't speak the whole story. Garrett did attempt some ball control pass plays and Beasley and Murray dropped the ball. While it may be fun to pretend that runs are fool proof, you can look to that Choice run several years ago vs. Baltimore that demonstrates the lie in that.

For some reason fans think they are qualified to do Garrett's job and know the ins and outs of what goes into being the head coach of the team. To fans it's all about last minute clock management and run pass ratio but I see that as gross oversimplification. Unfortunately, player fandom is quasi-political so you dare not bring up two awful picks from Romo or the play of Wynn, Brown, Lawrence, Ware, Leary, Hanna, Pellerin, Heath, Lemon, Scandrick -who played like **** that game- or Hayden.

Nope let's pretend that a run on 1st and 10 at the end of the third quarter would have been executed any better than the simple screen Murray dropped off his hip or that a run on third down wouldn't have seen Leary whiff yet another block.

The attempts to run were also compromised by two 2nd half holdings calls on running plays.

Outside the one 3 play possession that saw 3 pass attempts do nothing the rest of the 2nd half made complete sense.
We simply couldn't stop GB AT ALL.
We HAD to score and scoring 13 wasn't enough.
GB got whatever they wanted and then they killed the clock. It isn't like we were a minute away from winning.
They probably could have scored another TD if it had been required to win.

 

[OhSnap]

Not only that, with shot-guns, how many times do you have a RB in the back-field to make defenses think twice about whether your going run or pass. It's not primarily about ratios, it's about confusing the defense plain and simple. It's much harder to make a pass on a long route over a guy that knows a pass is coming, versus a guy who second guesses, because he thinks it's going to be run. It's also a lot more difficult to judge the way a WR is running, simply because he's battling with a DB for a while. You can't necessarily throw that accurate a pass, if Dez for example has to slow a little bit on his route while fighting the defender off.

It's not about confusing the defense it's about making them react like moving a safety up to help stop the run. If they just wanted to confuse em they'd hand out cup cakes before they ran a play.
http://i328.***BLOCKED***/albums/l326/BrandNew07_2008/Funny_Pictures_32913.jpg

 

[khiladi]

It's not about confusing the defense it's about making them react like moving a safety up to help stop the run. If they just wanted to confuse em they'd hand out cup cakes before they ran a play.
http://i328.***BLOCKED***/albums/l326/BrandNew07_2008/Funny_Pictures_32913.jpg

You mean play-action isn't built on 'confusing' the defense. You do know DBs do pay attention to what's also going on, if the QB hands off the ball. You do realize DBs many a time bite on play-action, because they are confused, thinking the RB got the ball.

 

[50cent]

7.4 yards per carry with Murray during that game. Not sure why so many keep bringing up the 3 and out scenario either.

IIRC he only had a couple of runs that were negative yards.

That game was also during a period of the season when the run game was actually clicking. Every scenario I see, whether its us having a lead, being down by one score or tied says the run game only put us in long down and distances or 3 and outs with no proof. I've actually done the research and posted it and this myth still seems to exist.

The GB game should have never come down to the wire period.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You mean play-action isn't built on 'confusing' the defense. You do know DBs do pay attention to what's also going on, if the QB hands off the ball. You do realize DBs many a time bite on play-action, because they are confused, thinking the RB got the ball.

Yes you are correct.

But we are also talking a team, coach and/or QB who abandons the run many times and even if they have a RB in the backfield it is for a pass play or pass protection and the other teams have seen it enough to know they will get pass happy.

 

[jterrell]

7.4 yards per carry with Murray during that game. Not sure why so many keep bringing up the 3 and out scenario either.

IIRC he only had a couple of runs that were negative yards.

In the 2nd half he averaged 4.5 ypc... kinda
We also saw two other rush attempts nullified by 10 yard holding penalties.
1 on Free and 1 on Dez.
Subtract 20 yards in holding penalties and on 8 attempts Dallas gained 8 yards rushing the ball.

We scored a TD via 6 straight passing attempts after the last of the holding calls.

GB had the ball with over 1:30 left at the end and was kneeling.
The only way to have beaten them was to play better.
Run/pass wasn't the big deal.

 

[OhSnap]

You mean play-action isn't built on 'confusing' the defense. You do know DBs do pay attention to what's also going on, if the QB hands off the ball. You do realize DBs many a time bite on play-action, because they are confused, thinking the RB got the ball.

They'll bite till they become confident the front 7 is gonna make the stop and the coach tells em to just play pass, so ye ur a lill bit right but the line has just become good enough to do that last year. I would never say the play action doesnt work

 

[DanteEXT]

The critics are gonna have something to say either way, but again your hypothetical situation assumes 3 and outs! Why? Nothing that day indicated we couldn't run vs them. Nothing, but we always assume it will. Go look at our last drive of the 3rd qtr and the amount of time that ran off and tell me that's not mismanagement of the clock. Nothing justifies that drive but an absolute disbelief in calling the run because it's a necessary evil.

That drive alone should be grounds for dismissal.

IMO, the defense did enough of a job in the first half that the ultimate demise was:

1. 2nd half playing
2. Play design, not enough screens, bootlegs or draws!
3. Defense that played entirely too much in the 2nd half.

Unfortunately, that sequesnce of events didn't just start with the first play from scrimmage. T.Williams decision to run the ball out from 9 yards deep on the KO was just bad. He should have took the knee. Would that five years of field position changed what plays they would have called in that situation? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. The first play they ran could have been a brilliant playcall but Murray flat out dropped a perfect pass. Someone posted the screen grabs back after that game. Murray could have crawled to a first down. It was setup perfectly. Yes, in retrospect maybe they should have just handed the ball off. And I myself would have preferred that they did. But the first play was more poor execution than mismanagement. Now, 2nd and 3rd downs.... have at it, I won't argue those two were not crash and burns because they were. They could have at worse been punting to start the 4th quarter instead of on defense.