Mike and Nate were on fire today

[gbrittain]

difference is that those guys run the football

True, I get that.

Does that mean a running offense can be so simple that the whole world knows what you are doing, but as long as you execute your ok?

But when it comes to passing if you have Pro Bowl talent at the RB position, WR position, TE position and QB position you better be ultra fancy or the opposing defenses will easily shut you down?

I am not saying JG does not need to improve some, but I saw what this offense was capable of last year and saw what they were capable when they would wake up in the middle or late in a game this year and I have a hard time laying most of the blame on JG.

 

[RoadRunner]

Putting a guy in motion shouldn't be too complicating.

Lining up with enough time to make adjustments shouldn't me too complicating.

Calling a QB sneak shouldn't be too complicating.

There are plenty of things that could have been to improve the offense that really don't involve complicating things.

Everybody, read that and let it sink in. And then read it again. And then let it sink it again.

That is one of the best, most intelligent statements made about this team in quite some time.

 

[RoadRunner]

Well hey, I have about 6 passing plays and about 6 running plays I can use, but as long as the players execute, I will look like a genius.

My point is, the Ed Reed's and company knew the plays we were going to run based on tendencies from film and knew we would not change things up.

So if I'm a defender and know that TO will do a deep corner route based on certain formations, I just simply go over to that corner and wait for smart Romo to throw it over there anyways. IMO, it's the scheme.

You have a HUGE offensive line, but no patience to run it twice in a row? You do play-action passes on 3rd and 15, who the heck is going to believe you're going to possibly hand it off?

You move TO in the back field and run him on 3rd and short? You throw it 10 times in a row against a dime defense? You see that a team is flooding the LOS sending more rushers than blockers and you call no screens or you can't audible into max protection?

You call 1 slant pattern in 5 games to one of the best slant receivers in history?
You have a star speed runner on the side line (felix before he was hurt) but somehow you forget he was fast and didn't give him 1 carry the entire game earlier in the season?

You have Bennett who's 7'10, and you can't single him up on a short LB and throw a fade when you're in the red zone, or more fades to RW?

If you know we have sorry pass protecting tackles based on certain DEs, you roll the pocket, throw screens, not just the same old screens but different types of screens?

Garrett has absolutely no patience, and if I had an offensive line like New England, I wouldn't have patience either but we don't, and if he couldn't figure that out, maybe he's not a genius, we figured it out.

It's no secret that our offense couldn't move the ball as well after Norv left town, and even Michael himself forgot how they totally shut him down in the late 90s, they knew his same old boring routes and jumped them, I remember that clearly.

So I'm throwing everybody under the bus starting with Jerry Jones to the coaches to the players to the sorry fans including myself.

Dude, that left a mark.

 

[theogt]

So basically they're saying there's nothing wrong with a simple offense as long as your players play well enough to overcome it.

Seems pretty stupid to me to have a gameplan that's an obstacle rather than a benefit.

Edit: Nevermind. Clove pretty much hit it out of the park.

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

Clove wins thread.

 

[wileedog]

With this roster, we should have been able to execute. And complicating things for players who aren't doing the simple stuff right is not the sign of good coaching.

Who is responsible for them getting the simple stuff right?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Smells like Mike is just covering for an old teammate.

Because by this line of thinking, you could call a fullback dive every play and when it doesn't work, just blame the players. Because hey, when I drew it up on the chalkboard, all the Xs were blocked, right?

And like Hoofbite says... If it's all on the players and you can win with only seven plays, why do we need to pay Jason Garrett three million dollars a year?

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Here's some questions I have for the Garrett apologists who want to absolve him of HIS players not executing (that IS what you all are doing in this thresad).

If Garrett should be unacountable for that, then why shouldn't Wade Wilson, Dallas' QB Coach, also be unaccountable for HIS QB not progressing this season? I mean, Romo didn't execute; that can't be Wilson's fault? Same goes for Hudson Hauke with respect to the OL right?

And What about Wade Phillips? If the PLAYERS on offense didn't execute, then it's not his fauly either; it's the players, just like it's not Phillips' credit that the defense executed when he took over for that unit. I mean, that wasn't Phillips' doing; it was mere coincidence. And so he must have been right to not get on Garrett Wilson and Hauke about this because it's not their fault, just like it wasn't his.

And if its not the coaches fualts then why should they have done anything differently? So then that would make Jones correct to say "the coaching staff is in place", right? After all, that was unanimously believed BEFORE the players failed to execute, right?

Still no answers from the Garrett apologists, huh? Don't bother, I wasn't expecting any good ones from you anyways. Your silence is answer enough!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

geez if all we need is 7 plays then any of us could coach it.


There's a lot more to being an OC than just calling 7 plays and saying your guys have to execute them.

 

[Beast_from_East]

First of all, I have no agenda. I have watched every single Cowboys game since 1988 and have been to games in person. My agenda is the Cowboys.

Secondly, COACH TECMO gets no pass!!!!!!

No offense to anybody, but to say that all you need is just 7 plays and if the defense knows what is coming shouldnt matter is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

IT DAM WELL DOES MATTER IF THE DEFENSE KNOWS WHAT IS COMING!!!!

If Ray Lewis is calling out your play before the snap...it matters.

If the Raven corners are running the routes better their your own receivers....it matters.

When players from multiple teams you play say your offense is the most basic, simplistic offense they have played against all year.....it matters.

When you love to pass so much that you call 45 pass plays against the Ravens.....it matters.

When you cant figure out how to get Felix Jones are Roy Williams involved or even on the field....it matters.

Let me ask this then.....if it doesnt matter if the defense knows what play is coming, then why try to hide it???

Why does the OC hold the playchart infront of his mouth if it doesnt matter if the defense knows the play???

Why does the NFL use specific frequencies for each team's headset to prevent easdropping if it doesnt matter if the defense knows your play???

Why did the Patroits lose a 1st round pick and Belicheck get fined 500,000 for video taping sideline signals if it doesnt matter if the defense knows your plays???

Like Clove said, if all you need is 7 plays and it doesnt matter if the defense knows or not, then anybody can be an OC. What is important is that our players "have the will" to run those 7 plays.

Flame away..........My .02

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Smells like Mike is just covering for an old teammate.

Because by this line of thinking, you could call a fullback dive every play and when it doesn't work, just blame the players. Because hey, when I drew it up on the chalkboard, all the Xs were blocked, right?

And like Hoofbite says... If it's all on the players and you can win with only seven plays, why do we need to pay Jason Garrett three million dollars a year?

plus all the hoopla surrounding Garrett were that he was innovative and creative

 

[28 Joker]

That was a different era. Emmitt Smith was one of the greatest players of all time. In my opinion, Emmitt Smith is the greatest Dallas Cowboys player of all time when you compare him to the other greats that won championships in Dallas.

Terrell Owens is no Micheal Irvin. Irvin was a leader, and he played for the Cowboys his entire career which included his prime.

That offensive line was one of, if not, the greatest of all-time. They were a machine, a complete unit.

This team isn't the 1990s Cowboys and expectiing them to be is a mistake, imo. It is the coach's job to put the players into the positions to succeed, because you can bet the other coordinators in the NFL will do it.

You can have the players, but if you get out coached, you are in trouble due to parity in the NFL.

You can have the coaches, but you will lose without the players.

It goes both ways.

 

[Idgit]

Who is responsible for them getting the simple stuff right?

There's plenty of responsibility to go around, but Garrett's not the only person involved here. Players and position coaches get credit, too. I'll fault Garrett for game plans and adjustments. Blown assignments and flat getting beat or running bad routes, or not throwing the ball away when there's not a play to be made are on the players.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I understand what Mike and Nate are saying, however, the game has evolved with regard to defensive sophistication, exotic blitzes ect.

Yes, the base level is similar, but certainly Garrett did not account or properly prepare protection schemes or offensive responses to the better talented and sophisticated defensive teams with corresponding schemes.

Mike and Nate are hammering away at the obvious, lack of passion in the offensive play. This is beyond basic and simplistic yet our current Cowboys squad lacks this essential ingredient.

Yes, Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were correct, this offense was predictable and inconsistent. Mike and Nate were correct too, the players failed to execute much of what was given.

That being said, that which was given was lacking in allowing the best players the best chance to succeed. They were not put in this position nearly enough and evidently were put in the opposite too often.

Protection schemes, play calling, personality leadership all should have been handled by Garrett and were not effectively speaking.

Open communication is good but leadership of men is better!!!

 

[NextGenBoys]

My point is, the Ed Reed's and company knew the plays we were going to run based on tendencies from film and knew we would not change things up.

They may have known the plays, but if Romo isnt a bonehead and throws up prayers, and if he connects on passes that he usually does when we have WR's open downfield, we are singing a different tune.
Not many teams have success on the Ravens defense. Yet we had plenty of opportunities in that game on offense, and we did not capitalize.

So if I'm a defender and know that TO will do a deep corner route based on certain formations, I just simply go over to that corner and wait for smart Romo to throw it over there anyways. IMO, it's the scheme.

Come on, we've all seen TO get open on double routes. I do wish they were called more often though. However, you have to set those plays up. Double moves also take alot longer to develop. As I'm sure you noticed, we tend to struggle when our Oline has problems protecting Romo.

You have a HUGE offensive line, but no patience to run it twice in a row? You do play-action passes on 3rd and 15, who the heck is going to believe you're going to possibly hand it off?

Not much of an argument from me here. I wish we would run the ball more, however, our Oline seems to be better at pass protecting than running. No excuses though. They need to run more and block better.

You move TO in the back field and run him on 3rd and short? You throw it 10 times in a row against a dime defense? You see that a team is flooding the LOS sending more rushers than blockers and you call no screens or you can't audible into max protection?

Again, not much of an argument. I do not like this part of Garrett's game. However, Romo has plenty of control at the line of scrimmage. Remember it was Romo who was mostly at fault for all the passes in our Wash loss. I would like more quick passes and screens. When they were called, they worked well.

You call 1 slant pattern in 5 games to one of the best slant receivers in history?
You have a star speed runner on the side line (felix before he was hurt) but somehow you forget he was fast and didn't give him 1 carry the entire game earlier in the season?

I would like more slants, but we havent exactly been effective this year when we have run them. We have had a few big plays on crossing routes though against Cincy and Cle.

As far as Felix rushes, not all on Garrett when Romo kills a run at the line.

You have Bennett who's 7'10, and you can't single him up on a short LB and throw a fade when you're in the red zone, or more fades to RW?

If you know we have sorry pass protecting tackles based on certain DEs, you roll the pocket, throw screens, not just the same old screens but different types of screens?

Would like to see that as well. He is just finishing his 2nd year in the league. No man is perfect.

Garrett has absolutely no patience, and if I had an offensive line like New England, I wouldn't have patience either but we don't, and if he couldn't figure that out, maybe he's not a genius, we figured it out.

It's no secret that our offense couldn't move the ball as well after Norv left town, and even Michael himself forgot how they totally shut him down in the late 90s, they knew his same old boring routes and jumped them, I remember that clearly.

Again, its just after his 2nd season as coordinator. He didnt just stumble into our offensive production in 07. I'm not going to say that teams did not figure him out a bit. But it was his 2nd season. To think that he's going to keep ramming his head into a wall is laughable. He is a smart guy. I think people are far too hard on him for this past season. He could have done a better job, but the blame is all over, not simply on him. Why people want to see him go after only 2 years, and when a year like this will only help a young coach. Too see him learn and go flourish elsewhere would be travesty. I dont feel like letting another Payton and Sparano go somewhere else.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[Oldschool7]

Garret is a scapegoat and will walk away with a winning record and a successful tenure. He will go on to great success.

Meanwhile the Cowboys will sit as one big turd in the toilet bowl, and some fans will continue to prerfer that turd to anything else.

Simply, they love the turd. They defend the turd. Perhaps in part they have become the turd.

 

[JordanTaber]

Smells like Mike is just covering for an old teammate.

Because by this line of thinking, you could call a fullback dive every play and when it doesn't work, just blame the players. Because hey, when I drew it up on the chalkboard, all the Xs were blocked, right?

And like Hoofbite says... If it's all on the players and you can win with only seven plays, why do we need to pay Jason Garrett three million dollars a year?

Wow, we actually agree.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

First of all, I have no agenda. I have watched every single Cowboys game since 1988 and have been to games in person. My agenda is the Cowboys.

Secondly, COACH TECMO gets no pass!!!!!!

No offense to anybody, but to say that all you need is just 7 plays and if the defense knows what is coming shouldnt matter is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

IT DAM WELL DOES MATTER IF THE DEFENSE KNOWS WHAT IS COMING!!!!

If Ray Lewis is calling out your play before the snap...it matters.

If the Raven corners are running the routes better their your own receivers....it matters.

When players from multiple teams you play say your offense is the most basic, simplistic offense they have played against all year.....it matters.

When you love to pass so much that you call 45 pass plays against the Ravens.....it matters.

When you cant figure out how to get Felix Jones are Roy Williams involved or even on the field....it matters.

Let me ask this then.....if it doesnt matter if the defense knows what play is coming, then why try to hide it???

Why does the OC hold the playchart infront of his mouth if it doesnt matter if the defense knows the play???

Why does the NFL use specific frequencies for each team's headset to prevent easdropping if it doesnt matter if the defense knows your play???

Why did the Patroits lose a 1st round pick and Belicheck get fined 500,000 for video taping sideline signals if it doesnt matter if the defense knows your plays???

Like Clove said, if all you need is 7 plays and it doesnt matter if the defense knows or not, then anybody can be an OC. What is important is that our players "have the will" to run those 7 plays.

Flame away..........My .02

:clap2: That was the best post this new year! Very well done, and with wonderful perspective and insight. Bravo! :clap2:

 

[Clove]

I'll just say this.... I like JG personally, and yes as a coordinator. But this guy simply became cocky, and thought he could just fling it up because he had TO, Witten and Romo and his QB became just as cocky.

All JG needs to do is go back to school this off-season. Call up the greatest offensive minds in history and pick their brain. Then study his players, not just the "Popular" names but also the truth in each player on offense and decide who can do what, and each players strengths and weaknesses.

Then devise a scheme to exploit their strengths, to stay away from their weaknesses, and then construct game plans to match your strengths against the opponents' weaknesses, and then and only then will he become a GREAT offensive coordinator, but this 7-play stuff is non-sense. This isn’t the 90s anymore.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

People are placing way to much blame on Jason G. Nate and Michael are exactly right. How complex are the Steelers, Titans, Giants, and Ravens offense?

JG has been scapegoated around here.

when you have Terrell Owens.....Jason Witten, Barber....and Roy Williams. You CANNOT play offensive football like the Steelers, Titans, Giants, Ravens etc.....Those guys are making the big bucks....those guys want their touches...and MOST importantly the Owner/GM wants a return on his investment. If the OWNER truly understood the return on his investment was Wins...then he would not get on the radio and talk about who should get the ball and who should not. Like Deion said...Jerry panicked when we were not scoring 40 every week...and went and got Roy Williams. That actually made Romo and Garretts life harder....not easier. Mainly because they are BOTH still very young at what they do....and they felt pressure to keep EVERYBODY happy. Why do you think Garrett is considering the 0-16 Detroit Lions? To get away from the reality show that is the Dallas Cowboys