Mike Leach on QB accuracy

[Denim Chicken]

Dak can work himself to the bone, but he'll never be an elite passer

Neither will 97% of QBs who enter the league. Eli with two rings is not an elite passer. Nor was Foles, Flaco, ect...

 

[atlantacowboy]

Right

If Dak wasn’t wearing a Star on his helmet they’d be more critical too.

Remember most of us see the qualities and assets Dak skill set presents but are simply critical that he isn’t a prolific passer.

That doesn’t mean we can’t win A championship with him as we’ve obviously had some success . But it’s just going to be tougher.

Its going to be a lot tougher. Where having a less accurate QB really bites you is in the red zone where our offense struggled all year. However, it is my hope that we can overcome some of that with more creative play calling...............and Dak is just going to have to tuck and run for more 1st downs. I lost count of how many 3rd and 5-7 yard plays where Dak could have picked up the first down with his legs and we ended up punting.

 

[Diehardblues]

Its going to be a lot tougher. Where having a less accurate QB really bites you is in the red zone where our offense struggled all year. However, it is my hope that we can overcome some of that with more creative play calling...............and Dak is just going to have to tuck and run for more 1st downs. I lost count of how many 3rd and 5-7 yard plays where Dak could have picked up the first down with his legs and we ended up punting.

I agree but it’s a great reflection on the frustration of our situation when hope relies on our QB making plays with his legs.

 

[Diehardblues]

Neither will 97% of QBs who enter the league. Eli with two rings is not an elite passer. Nor was Foles, Flaco, ect...

Yes, but those are more of the exception than the rule. And why we can still win a championship with a QB like Dak it’s just going to be much tougher.

And while I’d agree Eli, Flacco and Foles aren’t elite QB’s their passing skills are more refined and can make more of the throws.

 

[ItzKelz]

No, you don't have to agree with me. That would be ******** but, you can't be disingenuous in your discussions. I mean, think about what we are discussing here. You are saying that Dak is the most accurate QB in his first three years ever. I'm saying, anybody who watches knows that's not true. You have to start honest discussion with a foundation that is solid. Dak is not the most accurate QB in the league. At this point, he is just a little above average in that area. That's not a know, that's just the truth of the situation.

Listen, I like Dak. I am pulling for him to be our guy long term but he can't be our guy unless he has really good talent around him. He's not that QB and to be honest, I'm not sure that the greatest QB can be that guy in todays game. It certainly doesn't look as if that's possible, based on recent history. The point is that Dak can't get paid an AR deal and keep enough talent around him to be successful IMO. It's one or the other unfortunately.

That is a fact. Many QBs in the history of the game and Dak is #1. Dak misses passes just like every other QB in NFL history and based on what Ive seen he is not inaccurate. The factual numbers back my opinion up.

And what young QB in the NFL is performing well with out good talent around them? Heck in NFL history what young QB has performed well with out good talent around them?

 

[Diehardblues]

That is a fact. Many QBs in the history of the game and Dak is #1. Dak misses passes just like every other QB in NFL history and based on what Ive seen he is not inaccurate. The factual numbers back my opinion up.

And what young QB in the NFL is performing well with out good talent around them? Heck in NFL history what young QB has performed well with out good talent around them?

I think the bigger question is do we have enough talent on offense that a more prolific passer would make this a top 10 offense?

Who is more likely preventing our offense from being a top passing offense and scoring machine?

We see what talent like Cooper , Elliott and our OL do for our offense . Imagine what a QB with their talent level would do. We’d probably become a serious SB contender. Just saying..

 

[xwalker]

I provided the posts, at least four of them, answering the question correctly. Every single time. Blowing up your BS claim lol.

You then quoted @xwalker mistake, which was just oversight on his part that you blew up and made a big deal. It's just so sad. You act like a little girl. It's pathetic.

Riddle me this?
What do you call a low life liar(like Kizer pointed out) who has nothing better to do on a Friday night then go around lying about people with the intent to start stuff? And on top of that, being so stupid you dont even understand that %'s take into account sample size.

That's a CalyFlunkOut for you. The fake wanna be engineer that has to lie on a forum about his real life because he's embarrassed to tell the truth.



Don't reply without the quote of me answering the % question wrong, just once. Despite answering it numerous times.

What I said was not a mistake.

It's a reading context issue.

150% of 37 is 55.5

55.5 is more than 37.

An additional 150% would be 37 + 55.5 = 92.5.

Anybody with even a 5th grade level of reading comprehension would know that I was referring to 150% of 37.

CP just wanted to distract from the point because he couldn't counter the actual point.

 

[ItzKelz]

I think the bigger question is do we have enough talent on offense that a more prolific passer would make this a top 10 offense?

Who is more likely preventing our offense from being a top passing offense and scoring machine?

We see what talent like Cooper , Elliott and our OL do for our offense . Imagine what a QB with their talent level would do. We’d probably become a serious SB contender. Just saying..

We were top 5 in offense Daks rookie season. I look at the QBs taken in the first round the year came out and while they have great measurables there is nothing that they can do more effectively than Dak at this point in their careers. Heck Coff does not even change his own plays during the game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That is a fact. Many QBs in the history of the game and Dak is #1. Dak misses passes just like every other QB in NFL history and based on what Ive seen he is not inaccurate. The factual numbers back my opinion up.

And what young QB in the NFL is performing well with out good talent around them? Heck in NFL history what young QB has performed well with out good talent around them?

I don't dispute that the numbers may reflect this but think about it for just a second. I mean, that's really all I'm asking here. When you watch Dak play, does he look like one of the most accurate passers you've ever seen? Put all the other BS aside here, when you actually watch him throw the ball, does he look like one of the most accurate passers you've ever seen? Ask yourself this, if he is the most accurate passer in the history of the game, over the first three years of his career, then why is he in the middle of the pack in terms of completion percentage this season, in the NFL?

The factual numbers are skewed. I mean, this is what we are talking about. If you can't acknowledge this, then there is no point in discussing this further.

Fact, passing stats are continuing to increase, year over year. Fact, rules continue to make it easier for the passing offense to be successful and harder for the defense to defend. Fact, stats from todays game can not be compared with stats from the game, even 5 years ago because of rules changes. All of these are facts and they can not be disputed. We all get that because of how easy it is to throw the ball in the NFL today, in comparison to years past, the stats are inflated. We all get that because of Dak's very unique situation and the fact that, unlike most young QBs who come into the NFL, Dak was actually able to start for a team that had pretty good talent, in his rookie year and has enjoyed this benefit since he's joined the NFL. We all understand that these factors, include a few others, are the reason that Dak may have the best first three years of pass completion percentage in the history of the game. We all also understand that none of that proves he is accurate. It only means that he has benefited from some very unique circumstances and that he has been able to parley that into said stats. Doesn't mean he's a bad QB either. Doesn't mean I don't like him. It also doesn't mean that Dak is accurate.

Dak doesn't miss passes, "just like every other QB", Dak misses passes that most other QBs don't. That's just the truth. You can say it's not so but everybody watches the games. They see it and I gotta believe that regardless of if you want to admit it or not, you know this is the truth.

 

[ItzKelz]

I don't dispute that the numbers may reflect this but think about it for just a second. I mean, that's really all I'm asking here. When you watch Dak play, does he look like one of the most accurate passers you've ever seen? Put all the other BS aside here, when you actually watch him throw the ball, does he look like one of the most accurate passers you've ever seen? Ask yourself this, if he is the most accurate passer in the history of the game, over the first three years of his career, then why is he in the middle of the pack in terms of completion percentage this season, in the NFL?

The factual numbers are skewed. I mean, this is what we are talking about. If you can't acknowledge this, then there is no point in discussing this further.

Fact, passing stats are continuing to increase, year over year. Fact, rules continue to make it easier for the passing offense to be successful and harder for the defense to defend. Fact, stats from todays game can not be compared with stats from the game, even 5 years ago because of rules changes. All of these are facts and they can not be disputed. We all get that because of how easy it is to throw the ball in the NFL today, in comparison to years past, the stats are inflated. We all get that because of Dak's very unique situation and the fact that, unlike most young QBs who come into the NFL, Dak was actually able to start for a team that had pretty good talent, in his rookie year and has enjoyed this benefit since he's joined the NFL. We all understand that these factors, include a few others, are the reason that Dak may have the best first three years of pass completion percentage in the history of the game. We all also understand that none of that proves he is accurate. It only means that he has benefited from some very unique circumstances and that he has been able to parley that into said stats. Doesn't mean he's a bad QB either. Doesn't mean I don't like him. It also doesn't mean that Dak is accurate.

Dak doesn't miss passes, "just like every other QB" Dak misses passes that most other QBs don't. That's just the truth. You can say it's not so but everybody watches the games. They see it and I gotta believe that regardless of if you want to admit it or not, you know this is the truth.

In Daks first 3 seasons he looks like a very accurate QB to me. Every QB stat on the planet backs that up. The problem is that when he misses a wide open WR and had a great game it makes the front page. Yet when I watch other QBs miss wide open receivers it doesnt get talked especially when they have a great game.

Dak is not the only QB in this generation. He is not being measured by different stats than other QBs in his era.

 

[Big D]

In other words, a college offense, which will get trashed in the NFL.

The final 8 quarterbacks in the playoffs were Brady, Brees, Goff, Rivers, Mahomes, Foles, Luck, and Dak.

Only one of those quarerbacks isn't comfortable in the pocket. That's where the elite NFL is played.

Only one of those quarterbacks had their defense give up 250 yards rushing to the opposing team as well

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

In Daks first 3 seasons he looks like a very accurate QB to me. Every QB stat on the planet backs that up. The problem is that when he misses a wide open WR and had a great game it makes the front page. Yet when I watch other QBs miss wide open receivers it doesnt get talked especially when they have a great game.

Dak is not the only QB in this generation. He is not being measured by different stats than other QBs in his era.

He doesn't to me and I don't know how anybody who knows this game can make that statement. I'm not saying you don't know that game, maybe you do, maybe you don't, I don't know. What I am saying is that I think you like Dak and you aren't viewing things from a balanced perspective. Now, I don't expect you to agree with that.

You say you don't hear people talking about other QBs who miss passes, well, can you honestly say that you are on fan boards or that you are in those cities listening to what is being said about those QBs? I know this can't be the case because you mention this same argument the other day and you pointed out Wentz as one of the QBs who misses passes. You go on to say you don't hear people call them out on it. Well, that's just flat wrong. Philly is all over Wentz about his play. I'd imagine the same thing goes on in every fan base. In fact, I'm actually saying that this is the case, I don't just imagine it so what you claim there is blatantly false. Dak isn't dealing with anything that other QBs aren't dealing with from their own fan bases, over things like accuracy. Now, if your saying that the Cowboys aren't complaining about other teams QBs well, that's a different situation. It's actually a situation that I would personally file under, Who cares? Why on earth should we complain about another teams QB issues?

We've discussed this and said what we each think. I'll leave it to others to decide for themselves.

 

[OmerV]

Yes, but those are more of the exception than the rule. And why we can still win a championship with a QB like Dak it’s just going to be much tougher.

And while I’d agree Eli, Flacco and Foles aren’t elite QB’s their passing skills are more refined and can make more of the throws.

At least statistically their isn’t anything to support the idea Flacco and Foles are better passers than Dak. Even with Eli much of what looks better is the cumulative stats that come with throwing 75-100 more passes per season than Dak. If you look at the first 5 years of Eli’s career he wasn’t as good as Dak has been.

 

[Diehardblues]

At least statistically their isn’t anything to support the idea Flacco and Foles are better passers than Dak. Even with Eli much of what looks better is the cumulative stats that come with throwing 75-100 more passes per season than Dak. If you look at the first 5 years of Eli’s career he wasn’t as good as Dak has been.

Do we really need statistics to make these evaluations. Are we not able to view for ourselves and draw some conclusions?

We all know stats can be spun to support an opinion and narrative basically used to detract or dispute conflicting opinions.

 

[ItzKelz]

He doesn't to me and I don't know how anybody who knows this game can make that statement. I'm not saying you don't know that game, maybe you do, maybe you don't, I don't know. What I am saying is that I think you like Dak and you aren't viewing things from a balanced perspective. Now, I don't expect you to agree with that.

You say you don't hear people talking about other QBs who miss passes, well, can you honestly say that you are on fan boards or that you are in those cities listening to what is being said about those QBs? I know this can't be the case because you mention this same argument the other day and you pointed out Wentz as one of the QBs who misses passes. You go on to say you don't hear people call them out on it. Well, that's just flat wrong. Philly is all over Wentz about his play. I'd imagine the same thing goes on in every fan base. In fact, I'm actually saying that this is the case, I don't just imagine it so what you claim there is blatantly false. Dak isn't dealing with anything that other QBs aren't dealing with from their own fan bases, over things like accuracy. Now, if your saying that the Cowboys aren't complaining about other teams QBs well, that's a different situation. It's actually a situation that I would personally file under, Who cares? Why on earth should we complain about another teams QB issues?

We've discussed this and said what we each think. I'll leave it to others to decide for themselves.

I call it like I see it. Everything that you said is a reflection of the media; you sound just like them actually. Has nothing to do with my like or dislike of Dak. If Dak misses a pass that should have been a completion as a fan I get upset; if Zeke fumbles I get up set, if Byron Jones gets burnt I get upset.

Dak is absolutely the only QB in the NFL that scrutinized and over analyzed on every single throw that he makes through the media nearly every day of the football season. Our fan base feeds into it.

Ive literally seen Dak make amazing passes in a game with 2 or 3 in completions with a career game and the media and fans talk about the 2 or 3 passes he missed. This is factual and no other QB in the NFL is going through that in the media. The same thing happened with Romo.

 

[OmerV]

Do we really need statistics to make these evaluations. Are we not able to view for ourselves and draw some conclusions?

We all know stats can be spun to support an opinion and narrative basically used to detract or dispute conflicting opinions.

I don’t think either stats or an eye test are completely reliable on their own.

Something I think is worth noting about the stats though is that people explain away Dak’s completion % by saying he throws only short and dump off passes, yet Dak isn’t lagging in yards per attempt or yards per completion next to these guys. Something I think is worth noting when it comes to passing up stats and relying on the eye tests is that general impressions, and false perceptions, can skew what people believe. Realistically Foles gets a lot of credit due to one great playoff run, but other than that, and one outstanding season 6 years ago, his career has been very mundane and not particularly successful.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don’t think either stats or an eye test are completely reliable on their own.

Something I think is worth noting about the stats though is that people explain away Dak’s completion % by saying he throws only short and dump off passes, yet Dak isn’t lagging in yards per attempt or yards per completion next to these guys. Something I think is worth noting when it comes to passing up stats and relying on the eye tests is that general impressions, and false perceptions, can skew what people believe. Realistically Foles gets a lot of credit due to one great playoff run, but other than that, and one outstanding season 6 years ago, his career has been very mundane and not particularly successful.

I don’t need stats to arrive at some conclusions. I watch all of the games. I rarely even look at stats except for those provided during the game.

Reviewing and using stats is for those who don’t view the game’s or trust their impressions and evaluations.

Much like I didn’t think Romo should be ranked with some of the all time greats just because of his QB rating. Those stats were skewed because of this pass happy era much like Daks stats are skewed.

I guess since Daks stats are up there people believe he’s one of the great passers this era? Unbelievable lol

I love the one where’s he won as many games as Brady in last 3 years. Perfect example of spinning a stat. Yea, he’s a great as Brady. Cowboy fans really need to take the Stars off their blinders IMO.

 

[OmerV]

I don’t need stats to arrive at some conclusions. I watch all of the games. I rarely even look at stats except for those provided during the game.

Reviewing and using stats is for those who don’t view the game’s or trust their impressions and evaluations.

Much like I didn’t think Romo should be ranked with some of the all time greats just because of his QB rating. Those stats were skewed because of this pass happy era much like Daks stats are skewed.

I guess since Daks stats are up there people believe he’s one of the great passers this era? Unbelievable lol

I love the one where’s he won as many games as Brady in last 3 years. Yea, he’s a great as Brady. Cowboy fans really need to take the Stars off their blinders IMO.

You actually just proved my point because while you watch all the Cowboy games, I’ll bet good money you don’t watch all the Ravens games, and you haven’t watched all Foles games throughout his career, therefore the eye test you are using to compare the players is skewed because you aren’t viewing them all through the same eyes. And even if you did watch all Flacco and Foles games over their careers like you do with Dak, your view would still be colored by the fact your emotions are stirred differently by mistakes a Cowboy QB makes than they are when a Raven or Eagle/Ram QB makes a mistake.

That’s not a knock on you. That’s just natural for all of us. We all watch more Cowboy games than those of other teams, and we watch Cowboy games through a more careful and critical eye.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I call it like I see it. Everything that you said is a reflection of the media; you sound just like them actually. Has nothing to do with my like or dislike of Dak. If Dak misses a pass that should have been a completion as a fan I get upset; if Zeke fumbles I get up set, if Byron Jones gets burnt I get upset.

Dak is absolutely the only QB in the NFL that scrutinized and over analyzed on every single throw that he makes through the media nearly every day of the football season. Our fan base feeds into it.

Ive literally seen Dak make amazing passes in a game with 2 or 3 in completions with a career game and the media and fans talk about the 2 or 3 passes he missed. This is factual and no other QB in the NFL is going through that in the media. The same thing happened with Romo.

Oh boy, here we go again. I don't agree with you so I am a reflection of the media? I don't even watch sports TV or listen to it. Perhaps, just perhaps, it's not a "Reflection". Perhaps it's basic common sense and it just happens to be in line with what a lot of other people see? Sometimes a cigar is really, really, really, just a cigar.

Interestingly enough, it sounds like you know a lot about what the media is saying. Perhaps it's you who is getting opinion from media sources? Please, just stop with that stuff. I've told you, my opinions are not the result of the media. They couldn't be, I don't listen or watch it often enough.

 

[Diehardblues]

You actually just proved my point because while you watch all the Cowboy games, I’ll bet good money you don’t watch all the Ravens games, and you haven’t watched all Foles games throughout his career, therefore the eye test you are using to compare the players is skewed because you aren’t viewing them all through the same eyes. And even if you did watch all Flacco and Foles games over their careers like you do with Dak, your view would still be colored by the fact your emotions are stirred differently by mistakes a Cowboy QB makes than they are when a Raven or Eagle/Ram QB makes a mistake.

That’s not a knock on you. That’s just natural for all of us. We all watch more Cowboy games than those of other teams, and we watch Cowboy games through a more careful and critical eye.

That’s true to a certain extent but I do watch some of most games with the Sunday NFL ticket and I have 5 TV’s in my Sports Cave.

And we should watch our games with a more careful and critical eye but many opinions certainly don’t reveal that. I’m much more critical of my own than others and I thought a forum amongst our own fans would be the place to discuss that.