Mike Singletary

[Route 66]

Save your breath. You can't reason with this guy. His color pallette consists of gray, gray, and gray.

Thank you. You definitely proved my point and I approve this message. I dont see ANTHING but gray and you hit the nail on the head.

FIRST WHITE GUY TO...

FIRST ASIAN TO.....

FIRST JEWISH TO.....

That is all separating.

 

[Bleu Star]

Thank you. You definitely proved my point and I approve this message. I dont see ANTHING but gray and you hit the nail on the head.

FIRST WHITE GUY TO...

FIRST ASIAN TO.....

FIRST JEWISH TO.....

That is all separating.

zzzzz

 

[BulletBob]

Evidently the history lessons were wasted since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock, not Christopher Columbus.

N_Y_C,



That is the funniest post I've read on these boards in the past month.

BTW, speaking of history, I love your username.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sad part of this whole thing is that this thread has gone from discussing the merrits of Mike Singleton as HC or DC to one of race.

I suppose that's my fault. Sorry to the board. Amazing how this just takes over everything it touches. Simply amazing.

My bad.

 

[Route 66]

Listen, I don't want to take this down a juvenal road because I just think that it's too important a subject matter. So instead, I'll just say this.

I understand what you are trying to say but you, in turn, must understand that while this may not be an important issue to you, it is to some. I understand what you are trying to say. Skin should not be the important issue. It shouldn't matter what color. I get it. However, the fact is that it does matter in that it's important to a segmant of people, not because it's a line of demarcation but rather, it is a point in the history of sport (and even society) that marks a level of equality. For you, it may not be an important thing but for others it is very important. Who am I to tell them it is not? Better for me just to view it as something of importance to those who believe it to be such and celebrate it on those merrits.

You just stated what I have been saying all along-"it marks a level of equality". It doesn't mark a level of equality as you are stating that blacks have now proved they can coach. I don't need to have it forcefed that they are the first of their race. I prefer to look at them as accomplished men. I prefer to see how they led their team to the Super Bowl. I prefer to see how they handle losses and regroup.

You make it look like those out there are stating, "SEE!! ALL ALONG YOU THOUGHT WE WERE DUMB BUT WE ARENT!" It isn't news to me to see a black do anything first as they can do anything like anyone else can.

 

[Route 66]

Sad part of this whole thing is that this thread has gone from discussing the merrits of Mike Singleton as HC or DC to one of race.

I suppose that's my fault. Sorry to the board. Amazing how this just takes over everything it touches. Simply amazing.

My bad.

It hasnt digressed into any race issue. I and others have openly spoken about Singletary and offered our input.

 

[Bleu Star]

Sad part of this whole thing is that this thread has gone from discussing the merrits of Mike Singleton as HC or DC to one of race.

I suppose that's my fault. Sorry to the board. Amazing how this just takes over everything it touches. Simply amazing.

My bad.

No apologies necessary. It just goes to prove that race is still very much a "subject" in 2007. To some this is a significant moment in sports history. Others find fault with that for whatever reason.

 

[Bleu Star]

You just stated what I have been saying all along-"it marks a level of equality". It doesn't mark a level of equality as you are stating that blacks have now proved they can coach. I don't need to have it forcefed that they are the first of their race. I prefer to look at them as accomplished men. I prefer to see how they led their team to the Super Bowl. I prefer to see how they handle losses and regroup.

You make it look like those out there are stating, "SEE!! ALL ALONG YOU THOUGHT WE WERE DUMB BUT WE ARENT!" It isn't news to me to see a black do anything first as they can do anything like anyone else can.

You're missing the whole point. Be sure to turn off your TV when the mention is made of this moment in sports history on Super Bowl Sunday.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Your right. Probably a couple of good reasons for that.

First, Columbus was Italian. He was born in Genoa Italy. You ever been there? I doubt they would call themselves "WHITE GUYS".


Second, Columbus landed in the Bohomas. San Salvador I think but not for sure.

Lastly, Plymouth Rock is in Massachusetts. The Pilgrams landed there and they sailed on the Mayflower in 1620. That's some 128 odd years later.

Who was it that said History isn't important?

:laugh2:

OK then.

This post is silly, it shows that you lost your debate with Rowdy.

Completely off topic.

 

[Route 66]

No apologies necessary. It just goes to prove that race is still very much a "subject" in 2007. To some this is a significant moment in sports history. Others find fault with that for whatever reason.

Sadly to say by many of your posts, I agree racism is alive and well. It is not however significant that any certain race was the first to do something. When we all look at accomplishment of the human race and as a group of human beings only, we are on the way. Some choose to use color to signify history.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This post is silly, it shows that you lost your debate with Rowdy.

Completely off topic.

I'm sure your correct WV. You may now sleep easy.

 

[Route 66]

I am glad to see diversification in the League and will at least compromise to the position that it is nice to see that all levels of position can be held by any race. But I can't justify that it is a significant part of history.

 

[Doomsday101]

No apologies necessary. It just goes to prove that race is still very much a "subject" in 2007. To some this is a significant moment in sports history. Others find fault with that for whatever reason.

Some of us just saw 2 men who are very good HC and got the most out of their team this past season. Frankly I did not think about race at all until the media started talking about it after the Bears game. Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy got their teams to the SB because they are very good coaches not because of the color of their skin matter of fact skin color had nothing at all to do with them winning games.

 

[Bleu Star]

Sadly to say by many of your posts, I agree racism is alive and well. It is not however significant that any certain race was the first to do something. When we all look at accomplishment of the human race and as a group of human beings only, we are on the way. Some choose to use color to signify history.

To think otherwise is to skirt the issue. Sure. Racism just disappeared and went away. Ok man.

Your full on disgust with anything pertaining to the event which will occur on Super Bowl Sunday tells me enough. You don't have to come out and say anything.

People simply pointed to an event in sports history of some significance. You then went on for however many pages disputing it left and right. I'm sure you think the recognition of the accomplishment of one Doug Williams is BLAH too right? I hope your TV survives the onslaught on Super Bowl Sunday during that eency weency moment in time when those two first ever black Super Bowl coaches are recognized by the commentators.

 

[Bleu Star]

Some of us just saw 2 men who are very good HC and got the most out of their team this past season. Frankly I did not think about race at all until the media started talking about it after the Bears game. Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy got their teams to the SB because they are very good coaches not because of the color of their skin matter of fact skin color had nothing at all to do with them winning games.

That's great to hear. Doug Williams was just another Super Bowl quarterback too.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Now, this I don't agree with. When race is an essential important part of the equation, then it needs to be mentioned. For example, it is important to mention that Jackie Robinson was black--because he was the first black baseball player in the majors. In this instance, race needs to be mentioned because it is part of the equation--otherwise, he wouldn't be history. We don't say that Columbus was the first white explorer to discover a new continent because simply, all the explorers were white! Thus, when you discuss Columbus' history--it isn't necessary to mention his colour, because it is necessarily assumed and thereby inconsequential. The same would go for Isaac Newton. His colour would be assumed--merely because 99% of philosphers, scientists at the time were white. People that are remembered for their race, like Dungy and Lovie now, are done so because it is, again, part of the equation that makes them history.

Which returns us to the primary point we've been making all along (the one your losing sight of): we mention Dungy and Lovie's race because, in this situation, it is historically unprecedented and thus, history.

While what Dungy, or Lovie did is admirable, it is not admirable because of their skin color.

They were just doing something that they loved to do.

If anyone should be recognized for this "history" as you call it, it should be the people that made it possible for them to have this opportunity.

Since there was a time when they couldn't be a HC in the NFL, then whomever made it possible for them to be an NFL HC, or made the change, then they are the pioneers that had the courage to step outside the norm, out of their comfort zone and step over a race barrier.

They didn't have to do that. Those are the ones that need mentioned.

And don't even mention NFL HC's names in the same sentence as Jackie Robinson. He was persecuted, he suffered, he paid a price, different thing all together.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's great to hear. Doug Williams was just another Super Bowl quarterback too.

Pretty much, let me ask you did his skin color make him throw the ball any better? He was certainly not the 1st black QB to play in the NFL so any barrier out there had already been broken. I'm very happy for Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy because they seem like good people and have shown themselves as very good HC. To me color is not the issue, isn't that what Doc King wanted for people to be judged by what they do and not by the color of their skin? I judged Smith and Dungy by the job they did and nothing else because nothing else matters to me.

 

[ghst187]

I could care less if we hire a coach whos purple with yellow spots, as long as he wins.

no kidding, I'm sure Jerry is thinking the same way. Who really cares what race a coach is? I almost threw up when the first question following the Bears' win from Leslie Viscer to Lovie Smith was about being the first black coach to go to the SB....I was thoroughly embarrassed on behalf of America and mankind that the media would make such a big deal about his race right after the biggest win of his coaching career and biggest win for the franchise in over 20 years. Pathetic.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

While what Dungy, or Lovie did is admirable, it is not admirable because of their skin color.

They were just doing something that they loved to do.

If anyone should be recognized for this "history" as you call it, it should be the people that made it possible for them to have this opportunity.

Since there was a time when they couldn't be a HC in the NFL, then whomever made it possible for them to be an NFL HC, or made the change, then they are the pioneers that had the courage to step outside the norm, out of their comfort zone and step over a race barrier.

They didn't have to do that. Those are the ones that need mentioned.

And don't even mention NFL HC's names in the same sentence as Jackie Robinson. He was persecuted, he suffered, he paid a price, different thing all together.

I guess your trying to say they owe it all to Fritz Pollard.

His daughter, BTW, went to WVSt.

 

[ethiostar]

Eventhough i haven't posted many comments on this forum (maybe two total), I have been visiting this site for at least the past two years or so. I usually enjoy reading the various perspectives from other members on issues ranging draft choices to what some believe to be questionable playcalling by the coaching staff. All though i don't agree with everyone all the time, i usually find something informative from soneone on this board. This particular discussion on 'race' and the nfl is particularly interesting to me because i am a educater and 'race' or ethnicity is offten a very contested topic i have to discuss with my students. From a scientific perspective, the concept of 'race' is very difficult to handle. Depending on the 'traits' you choose to classify people you can have as little as one race or hundreds of races. In this society, for example, we have chosen skin color, hair type, nose shape, etc... to categorize people into different groups. The problem with this is that humans genetic variation is not limited to differences that are visible to the naked eye. So, if we were to pick other genetic traits to group people we will have entirely different group of 'races', in which a particular 'race' could be made up of whites, latinos, blacks, asians, etc...Scientifically speaking, there is more genetic variation 'within' the so called 'races' than 'between' them. The reason i felt like i needed to include the above argument is because, in reality, the 'races' we know in the US have very little biological basis to them, what we have are 'social races'. But just because we can say 'races' are not a biological reality it does not mean particular groups of people have not been treated, at worse like property (slavery) and at at best second class citizens (segregation, discrimination, etc..). In other words, we attach/have attached particular values to each of these categories of so called 'races' in order to justify the superiority of one 'race' over others.

Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy will be the first to tell you that they hope the time will come that this type of story ("the first african american....") is a thing of the past. But that time is not now. We have come a long way as a society but we still have a long way to go, not just with the issue of 'race' but equal opportunity in general.