Misplaced Linehan Rage

CalPolyTechnique

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People forget the QB is in his third year. No QBs are tearing it up in year 3. No QB is HOF level or elite in year 3. They are all still learning. The lucky ones have coaches who understand that and put the player in position to succeed. Our coaches stubbornly don’t do that. They aggressively stick to what they want to do which is the opposite of good coaching. Good coaching works with the talent on hand.

Also, anyone who is quick to say Carson Wentz is elite...or Jared Goff is elite...or Pat Mahomes is the MVP isn’t watching them play. These guys make mistakes. The difference is margin of error. They don’t have to succeed is spite of their coaches. Their coaches actually put them in position to succeed with their play calling and game planning. They coach them to their strengths.

These coaches need to go. They are ill suited for their jobs and prove it on a weekly basis.

I'd happily take Wentz, Goff, Mahomes and their mistakes over Dak.

You're trying to identify a generic fault that's shared among all in an attempt to make them appear as equals.
 

ondaedg

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I'd happily take Wentz, Goff, Mahomes and their mistakes over Dak.

You're trying to identify a generic fault that's shared among all in an attempt to make them appear as equals.

Here we go again woe is us because we don't have Carson Wentz. Marcus Mariota just smacked us in the mouth dude. Why don't you go tell Mike Vrabel he has no chance with Mariota and his season is over.
 

Birch_Wood

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I dislike Garrett and Linehan as much as the next fan (if not more in the case of Garrett), but has anyone given thought that the offense (particularly the passing game) is oversimplified and predictable as a byproduct of the QB?

The reality is we don't have a guy with arm talent back there that's comfortable sitting in the pocket, making his progressions and throwing receivers open.

Instead, our passing game is stripped down to predominantly quick reads, comeback routes where a receiver is running to a spot waiting for the ball.

I would also add if your QB has to be rolled-out or use PA to try to create throwing windows and separation for receivers so your QB can feel comfortable making a throw, you're severely handicapping your offense.

I want Garrett and Linehan gone today, but replacing him doesn't make Dak more accurate, poised or savvy.

Two things can be equally true: 1) Garrett and Linehan are part of the problem and 2) Dak is not the answer
Yes, a paradox.
 

khiladi

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Mariotta made way more difficult throws Dak did last night. Dude hit plenty of passes the whole first half in the intermediate and deep part of the field, in-between zones to keep the chains moving, while not bailing from the pocket.

Dak is worse than an average Mariotta. Dak refuses to even target that area and didn’t even in his rookie year.
 

Roadtrip635

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its a combination of all of the above. the system requires good execution. with Romo, witten and at some level Dez we had that....we built a good OL and had the RB.....

Dak is not consistent passing from the pocket and everyone wants to run him, but that's not a formula for long term success and as we saw last night Titans were able to easily manage and control his running.

and the coaches haven't been able to adjust the system to fit Dak....

the coaches aren't great. dak isn't great. the OL is not having a good year and it all snow balls.....


The team just doesn't adjust well period. It's not just Dak's skillset, it's the skillset for the WRs, TEs and OL. We had a bunch of smaller quick WRs and instead of adjusting to quick, moving routes, we tried to use them like they were Dez and Witten, with comeback type and stick routes. We have weak, inexperienced TEs and still try to use schemes like we still have Witten and Hanna, catching and blocking. When the defense is getting pressure, you have to adjust the plays again using quick routes to negate the pass rush. We keep trying the same things, over and over again. Instead of starting with what players do well and building out from there, we go with the same old philosophy and sprinkle a couple new concepts from time to time. The coaching needs to adjust to the players they have, not the players they want them to be.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Here we go again woe is us because we don't have Carson Wentz. Marcus Mariota just smacked us in the mouth dude. Why don't you go tell Mike Vrabel he has no chance with Mariota and his season is over.

WTH, are you talking about?
 

zerofill

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If they can't coach him up, bench him or get fired.

Honestly don't think Jerry will let them bench him. His endorsement deals are good for the franchise in Jerry's mind.

When they keep doing those stupid screens on 3 and forever... I was saying in the game thread, no coach is that stupid. They don't trust Dak, and more then any of us do.

But, they still suck, and I still want all 3 gone lol.
 

zerofill

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He had Romo and Sanchez his rookie year, now he has Rush and White. Lol

There is no doubt in my mind that with the starters, either of them are better then Prescott. Jerry just isn't going to let that happen.
 

Roadtrip635

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Mariotta made way more difficult throws Dak did last night. Dude hit plenty of passes the whole first half in the intermediate and deep part of the field, in-between zones to keep the chains moving, while not bailing from the pocket.

Dak is worse than an average Mariotta. Dak refuses to even target that area and didn’t even in his rookie year.


Other than a 1-2 nice throws, his receivers were wide open, our defense was utter poop. Our horrible defense made Mariota look much better than he is. We got little pressure on him, gave him open targets and was repeatedly burned with short passes to the RB. Our defense isn't nearly as good as people think it is.
 

big dog cowboy

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I dislike Garrett and Linehan as much as the next fan (if not more in the case of Garrett), but has anyone given thought that the offense (particularly the passing game) is oversimplified and predictable as a byproduct of the QB?
I'm not sure Rodgers or Brady could make this offense work this year.
 

Philmonroe

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Marcus Mariota just whooped us. Mitch Trubisky is 5-3. Andy Dalton is 5-3. Shall I go on? Getting tired of my fellow Cowboys fans complaining that we don't have a pro bowl QB. Garrett has 8+ years of being unable to get the job done. No more excuses they're getting old.
So this is more or less another Dak excuse? Most want to get rid of Garrett so again another Dak creative excuse you're using?
 

RustyBourneHorse

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I was pretty young then too. Not as young as you but too young to think about what his departure meant. Looking at the stats it appears the team stayed right where they were in the two seasons after he left and then in ‘96 the bottom fell out.

Fair enough. I suppose that you can see where I was going with that.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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Turner is from the Zampesi coaching tree and the magic of the passing game was what you see very little of today as Aikman pointed out on Sunday, the timing based pass game. That takes a very accurate QB with zip and touch, exact pass route running and complete trust between the QB and his WR's. Many times the ball is released before the receiver has even gone into his cut.

Back then, you'd see the ball come out from behind Aikman and it looked like a pick for sure until the WR, Irvin most of the time, made his cut in front of the DB. The reason Irvin pushed off to the point of the refs resurrecting the enforcement of the rule was to get to the receiving point on time.

Once that offense was installed and instilled, it could continue until that had to change out the players. Turner's best attribute to me was the inability of the DC's to play him. They'd go 8 in the box to stop Emmitt and Turner wouldn't always react to that and some of Emmitt's longest runs were against stacked boxes. His goal was to run the ball and he was very effective at using the pass to get that done.

But as good an OC as Turner was, and as good a DC as Wannstadt was, they could never recreate what they did with those teams because the talent level was never as good. That 92-95 team was the perfect storm of coaches and players, which is why if they'd won that 94 game against the Niners that would be considered the GOAT.

I wouldn't mind Norv replacing Garrett. Garrett only has the F word to use, Norv has the full compliment and is a cussing legend.

Well, I'm not so intrigued by the swear words. What I want is someone that is a good leader and knows what he's doing. I think that Turner is an outstanding offencive mind, but I'm not sure how good of a HC he is. Either way, I'd be willing for us to give him a go. Jerry seems to like to go from within, and Norv certainly fits that bill.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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This is dumb. OC's and Coaches know what they have in talent. They know they don't have Aaron Rodgers but that doesn't stop them from coaching well.

So no...I'm not giving Linehan or Garrett a excuse here especially when we saw this same crap with Romo. But Romo helped cover up how poor this offense was and he could make a lot of the throws a QB should make in this league.

Fact is, you know what Dak lacks. You know what he's good at. Yet, you don't coach to what he's good at. You don't use his legs. You don't run a hurry up offense more often. You wait until the end of the game to do so. You have your receivers run predictable routes and run on 1st down ALL GAME LONG. You know what a offensive coordinator is lacking talent. But his problems isn't just Dak. He can't even get Zeke going and its embarrassing. This team doesn't need some offensive guru....they simply need someone who knows what they are doing and for whatever reason they don't seem to have that.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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This is dumb. OC's and Coaches know what they have in talent. They know they don't have Aaron Rodgers but that doesn't stop them from coaching well.

So no...I'm not giving Linehan or Garrett a excuse here especially when we saw this same crap with Romo. But Romo helped cover up how poor this offense was and he could make a lot of the throws a QB should make in this league.

Fact is, you know what Dak lacks. You know what he's good at. Yet, you don't coach to what he's good at. You don't use his legs. You don't run a hurry up offense more often. You wait until the end of the game to do so. You have your receivers run predictable routes and run on 1st down ALL GAME LONG. You know what a offensive coordinator is lacking talent. But his problems isn't just Dak. He can't even get Zeke going and its embarrassing. This team doesn't need some offensive guru....they simply need someone who knows what they are doing and for whatever reason they don't seem to have that.

The difference is that Romo had the experience to know how and when to change the play. Dak hasn't got that edge that Romo had. Nor was Dak coached by a coach like Parcells who instilled that ability into him. That is a big key to that imo.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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The difference is that Romo had the experience to know how and when to change the play. Dak hasn't got that edge that Romo had. Nor was Dak coached by a coach like Parcells who instilled that ability into him. That is a big key to that imo.
Oh I agree 100%. I'm not saying that Dak should be Romo or that Dak even has that capability in him. IMO, 3rd year Romo didn't have what 10th year in the league Romo had in that regard. To me its clear what's going on here. Romo made the soffense look decent. But without him it would've been exactly what it is now. Averaging 14 points a game and struggling to beat anyone. And these geniuses are still going out there with the same gameplan week in and out.
 

WarDaddy

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I'd happily take Wentz, Goff, Mahomes and their mistakes over Dak.

You're trying to identify a generic fault that's shared among all in an attempt to make them appear as equals.

Nah. Not fault finding by any means. At least, not the QBs. Each of these QBs has seen success in this league and neither is a scrub. Only one has received a year end award by the way.

All but one of these QBs has a creative OC that tailors the offense to his personnel.
 

RustyBourneHorse

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Oh I agree 100%. I'm not saying that Dak should be Romo or that Dak even has that capability in him. IMO, 3rd year Romo didn't have what 10th year in the league Romo had in that regard. To me its clear what's going on here. Romo made the soffense look decent. But without him it would've been exactly what it is now. Averaging 14 points a game and struggling to beat anyone. And these geniuses are still going out there with the same gameplan week in and out.

Exactly right. It's not like we're without talent here, yet we're averaging 14 points a game, as you correctly stated. To me, that's heavily on the coaching. Dak doesn't have sufficient experience to call his own plays, and that's what's killing him in Garrett's offence. Sadly, for a QB to be successful with Garrett, the QB must be basically autonomous. That's the problem. We were slightly less predictable with Romo because of that. If we have a proper HC like Romo had, I think that Dak could learn a lot and finally develop.
 

beware_d-ware

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I like the Cam Newton analogy another guy mentioned. Newton played almost all of his career with Mike Shula and was a career 59% passer. The Panthers bring in Norv Turner, he re-engineers the offense, and suddenly a 29 year old QB who's struggled with accuracy going back to college is hitting 67% of his throws.

The Panthers offense is hitting on all cylinders, and is it cause they added any new talent? Nope. They drafted a 1st round WR, but he's more of a gadget guy right now. It's all because they had found a coach who's willing to use the pieces they had.
 
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