Morris Claiborne had a great game

[TheMarathonContinues]

Brilliant.

Do you really wanna debate Sherman vs. Mo?

Stats aren't the end-all-be-all, but they help paint a picture of how a player performs on the field. Mo has demonstrated throughout his career he does not make plays on the ball. Can the same be said about Sherman. Please, try to dispute that, lol?

As to the Burn Rate stat you wanna glom to and try to hang your hat on, please go ahead and tell me why this stat is a reliable indicator when it does not account for poor throws, dropped passes, passes completed out-of-bounds, et cetera.

Consider it a test of intellectual honesty. Go for it.

First off, I didn't compare Sherman to Mo. You brought up what Peters is doing and implied that because Mo doesn't have any INT's or PD's he's not a good player. I brought up the fact that Sherman's stats are 0 PD's and no INT's and asked you a simple question. Is he a bum? He doesn't have any of those stats either.

And I don't want to "glom" anything. I'm not hanging my hat on a burn rate. I'm hanging my hat on what I've seen and its refreshing to see Mo play well and be injury free. He will get better each week hopefully.

See this is the thing. I'm an adult. I'm not one of these children that roots for certain guys to fail or roots for certain guys to win. When I see a player play well I'm happy to see it. I'm happy to see Mo playing well. I'm not going to fine a stat to denounce he's playing well or find one to prove he's playing well. I have far bigger concerns than Mo at this point and it starts with that dreadful defensive line and those linebackers.

And this is so silly. So because qb's throw bad passes that means what exactly? So quarterbacks are only throwing bad passes Mo's way but no other corner in this league? That's moronic. Give up the shtick.

 

[mattjames2010]

Brilliant. And you continue to ignore what I wrote in context because you're foaming at the mouth thinking something profound has been said. I said clearly, statistics are not the end-all-be-all, but simply help to paint an overall picture of how a player is performing on the field. Agree or disagree?

The thought exercise fails because two things can be equally and possibly true: 1) Sherman is struggling this year and 2) Mo is struggling this year.
Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from. I'm not interested in comparing the two, but since you are, why aren't we looking at the longitudinal data (past performance, year-after-year)? I can tell you why...because you wanna make this only about two games, lol.

"it's starting to line up as to why he (Mo) has no INTs."

Loool, smh.



Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game.



Lol, I love it "you lost," because you said so. Brilliant.

Cool speculation in that article. Here's a quote from an actual PFF Analyst (Khaled Elsayed) from a MMQB article:

"When in doubt, Elsayed will flag plays for further review when the All-22 coaches’ film becomes available. “Am I being generous?” he writes after assigning a +1 grade to Eli Manning on a touchdown pass to Larry Donnell. It was a good throw, but the cornerback made the quarterback’s job easier by hesitating in coverage. On a 20-yard touchdown run by Alfred Morris, safety Antrel Rolle is only seen on the TV broadcast at the end of the play, trailing Morris. “One of the problems is, you can’t just go straight over the top—he’s got to defend the cutback,” Elsayed says. “But I need a different angle to see that. Another analyst might decide, when he looks at the All-22, that he was slow over the top. No grade for Rolle right now.”

That's a quote DIRECTLY from a PFF analyst. Unfortunately, you'll have to stop parroting the baseless speculation that they don't use ALL22. Find a new angle to hang your hat on.

Take you out of context? You're the one who took someone out of context and pretended someone compared Sherman and Mo. Either that, or you were being intentionally obtuse to the fact that he was putting forth an argument for you to expand upon your "No INT or PDs!"

1. Except Sherman is not struggling, if anything, he may be back to his 2013 form
2. Except Mo is not struggling, and we have shown you the statistics. We are still waiting for YOU to provide something which you have yet to do. I am waiting.

"Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from."

Oh, is this it now? Haha, oh man. The moving of the goal post when getting backed into a corner! Now all of a sudden, since we ALL were just talking about the first two games in context of this thread, is now "It's too small sample size! Except when I say he's struggling, that's enough time to judge!" - Your argumentative skills are lacking, you're way out of your league here.

"Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game."

....and? No. One. Is. Arguing. Claiborne. Is. Elite. He will give up plays from time to time, WE ARE SAYING HE IS A GOOD CORNER. My goodness! Secondly, the play you are discussing, there was ZERO safety help. Jackson is one of the fastest WRs in the league, especially straight line, he can beat the best of the corners on post routes. Good coordinators have a safety lurking deep to prevent such a play. There wasn't a damn safety anywhere in sight except for Church lurking 20 yards behind.

"Cool speculation in that article."

Not, "speculation" - PFF has a Monday deadline, they use rewind, All-22 doesn't come out until mid-week, they release grades on a Monday. THAT is what circulates. Also, rewind didn't have all-22 access until a year ago. Which means PFF didn't use all-22 for quite some time. No one goes to PFF mid-week and circulates their article after the update their grades (If they even get around to it)

Until you are ready to come back with statistics on Mo of your own in these past two games, don't even bother responding. You're now speaking to an empty room, you might hear our chuckles from afar though. Until then

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Take you out of context? You're the one who took someone out of context and pretended someone compared Sherman and Mo. Either that, or you were being intentionally obtuse to the fact that he was putting forth an argument for you to expand upon your "No INT or PDs!"

1. Except Sherman is not struggling, if anything, he may be back to his 2013 form
2. Except Mo is not struggling, and we have shown you the statistics. We are still waiting for YOU to provide something which you have yet to do. I am waiting.

"Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from."

Oh, is this it now? Haha, oh man. The moving of the goal post when getting backed into a corner! Now all of a sudden, since we ALL were just talking about the first two games in context of this thread, is now "It's too small sample size! Except when I say he's struggling, that's enough time to judge!" - Your argumentative skills are lacking, you're way out of your league here.

"Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game."

....and? No. One. Is. Arguing. Claiborne. Is. Elite. He will give up plays from time to time, WE ARE SAYING HE IS A GOOD CORNER. My goodness! Secondly, the play you are discussing, there was ZERO safety help. Jackson is one of the fastest WRs in the league, especially straight line, he can beat the best of the corners on post routes. Good coordinators have a safety lurking deep to prevent such a play. There wasn't a damn safety anywhere in sight except for Church lurking 20 yards behind.

"Cool speculation in that article."

Not, "speculation" - PFF has a Monday deadline, they use rewind, All-22 doesn't come out until mid-week, they release grades on a Monday. THAT is what circulates. Also, rewind didn't have all-22 access until a year ago. Which means PFF didn't use all-22 for quite some time. No one goes to PFF mid-week and circulates their article after the update their grades (If they even get around to it)

Thank you.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

First off, I didn't compare Sherman to Mo. You brought up what Peters is doing and implied that because Mo doesn't have any INT's or PD's he's not a good player. I brought up the fact that Sherman's stats are 0 PD's and no INT's and asked you a simple question. Is he a bum? He doesn't have any of those stats either.

I brought up Peters to draw a comparison of a cornerback that's at least making plays on the ball. I see Claiborne losing coverage battles while others apparently are seeing him shutdown the field. His lack of pass defensed suports my point.

And this is so silly. So because qb's throw bad passes that means what exactly? So quarterbacks are only throwing bad passes Mo's way but no other corner in this league? That's moronic. Give up the shtick.

How cute is that? You spout off about being "an adult" and then summarily forward a childish argument. Predictable.

The criticism is regarding the STATISTIC which regards ALL cornerbacks. Of course, in your mind you wanna make it about Mo like I'm only applying it to unfairly. If you're an "adult" you should recognize that and retract it because it's bunk.

If you can't comprehend why Burn Rate is faulty stat, then you're simply at your capacity and I can't help you as I've already explained...twice.

Your limitations are troubling.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

I brought up Peters to draw a comparison of a cornerback that's at least making plays on the ball. I see Claiborne losing coverage battles while others apparently are seeing him shutdown the field. His lack of pass defensed suports my point.



How cute is that? You spout off about being "an adult" and then summarily forward a childish argument. Predictable.

The criticism is regarding the STATISTIC which regards ALL cornerbacks. Of course, in your mind you wanna make it about Mo like I'm only applying it to unfairly. If you're an "adult" you should recognize that and retract it because it's bunk.

If you can't comprehend why Burn Rate is faulty stat, then you're simply at your capacity and I can't help you as I've already explained...twice.

Your limitations are troubling.

How's about you try to make one post without a personal attack? Can't be too difficult for someone of superior intelligence.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Brilliant. And you continue to ignore what I wrote in context because you're foaming at the mouth thinking something profound has been said. I said clearly, statistics are not the end-all-be-all, but simply help to paint an overall picture of how a player is performing on the field. Agree or disagree?

The thought exercise fails because two things can be equally and possibly true: 1) Sherman is struggling this year and 2) Mo is struggling this year.
Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from. I'm not interested in comparing the two, but since you are, why aren't we looking at the longitudinal data (past performance, year-after-year)? I can tell you why...because you wanna make this only about two games, lol.

"it's starting to line up as to why he (Mo) has no INTs."

Loool, smh.



Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game.



Lol, I love it "you lost," because you said so. Brilliant.

Cool speculation in that article. Here's a quote from an actual PFF Analyst (Khaled Elsayed) from a MMQB article:

"When in doubt, Elsayed will flag plays for further review when the All-22 coaches’ film becomes available. “Am I being generous?” he writes after assigning a +1 grade to Eli Manning on a touchdown pass to Larry Donnell. It was a good throw, but the cornerback made the quarterback’s job easier by hesitating in coverage. On a 20-yard touchdown run by Alfred Morris, safety Antrel Rolle is only seen on the TV broadcast at the end of the play, trailing Morris. “One of the problems is, you can’t just go straight over the top—he’s got to defend the cutback,” Elsayed says. “But I need a different angle to see that. Another analyst might decide, when he looks at the All-22, that he was slow over the top. No grade for Rolle right now.”

That's a quote DIRECTLY from a PFF analyst. Unfortunately, you'll have to stop parroting the baseless speculation that they don't use ALL22. Find a new angle to hang your hat on.

Insisting on DB stats two games into the season for evaluation.

You are the one insisting on a narrative. Your deductive logic is cute though.

He posted proof of them not using the coaches film and it was not blind speculation. The all-22 is not released until Wednesday so they cannot do it in time.

Sure they might go back and check if they think they missed something but that is obviously limited and down in and down out they cannot see the S and CB play. As such their DB and WR grades are at best specious. It is what it is even if it is not convenient to your narrative.

You should try using more front brain and less back brain in your evaluations.

 

[Idgit]

Please keep it respectful everybody. Too much cleaning up going on here. Thanks.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Please keep it respectful everybody. Too much cleaning up going on here. Thanks.

You're a big fat ugly red lump with eyes.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

So, eight pages later, have we determined whether or not Mo had a good game?

 

[Idgit]

You're a big fat ugly red lump with eyes.

In real life I'm not red.

 

[mattjames2010]

So, eight pages later, have we determined whether or not Mo had a good game?

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

So, eight pages later, have we determined whether or not Mo had a good game?

PFF from 2014 says no.

 

[haleyrules]

Everybodies problem with Claiborne is he was overdrafted. Nothing more than that. If ole Jerry boy would have taken him in the 3rd round where he belonged...everybody would now be saying what a bargain Mo turned out to be. lol. He can contribute to the club if he is kept in perspictive. Mo is a good Cowboy who happened to be vastly over rated by the FO. Nothing more or less than that.

 

[speedkilz88]

Everybodies problem with Claiborne is he was overdrafted. Nothing more than that. If ole Jerry boy would have taken him in the 3rd round where he belonged...everybody would now be saying what a bargain Mo turned out to be. lol. He can contribute to the club if he is kept in perspictive. Mo is a good Cowboy who happened to be vastly over rated by the FO. Nothing more or less than that.

Pretty much the nfl and media scouts thought Mo was the best defensive player in that draft.

 

[mattjames2010]

Pretty much the nfl and media scouts thought Mo was the best defensive player in that draft.

Mo was a top 10 talent coming out of college. He doesn't lack the athleticism or physical tools, he lacked confidence and health. He has them both back right now. Trading up for him was the problem.

 

[haleyrules]

Pretty much the nfl and media scouts thought Mo was the best defensive player in that draft.

Funny. I don't remember it that way. Most top scouts and football people said Mo was incapable of learning the college playbook. He was regarded by most football people as a 3rd pick at best and frankly thats what he has proven to be. Sorry.

 

[haleyrules]

lol. Do you boys think that maybe..Luke Kuechly...Fletcher Cox...Janoris Jenkins...Bobby Wagner to name just a few that were much more highly regarded that Claiborne. He was Jerry Jones fantasy. Too bad for the Cowboys. Luke would have looked very good in Blue and Silver.

 

[TheDallasDon]

Funny. I don't remember it that way. Most top scouts and football people said Mo was incapable of learning the college playbook. He was regarded by most football people as a 3rd pick at best and frankly thats what he has proven to be. Sorry.

Who had him ranked as a 3rd round pick pre-draft?? I'll wait

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Funny. I don't remember it that way. Most top scouts and football people said Mo was incapable of learning the college playbook. He was regarded by most football people as a 3rd pick at best and frankly thats what he has proven to be. Sorry.

This is simply untrue.

Top 5 in each
http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/draft2012bigboard.php
http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/4/23/2967438/2012-nfl-mock-draft
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/2012-n-f-l-draft-big-board/?_r=0

Goose had him as best defensive player in the draft.
http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...ng-down-the-cowboys-2012-draft-round-by-round

 

[haleyrules]

Heck...the club could have had Olivier Vernon...but no...Jerry took Mo Claiborne...great pick. Similiar to passing up JJ Watt for Tyron Smith...smart. Very shrewd.