Morris Claiborne had a great game

[mattjames2010]

Too early. I have been one of his biggest critics and have seen noticeable improvement in tackling and coverage but let's see him play a few more games at least. Let's see him play effective and stay healthy at least for another 6 games. He owes the team that at least.

He's been playing well since last season....

The health thing is valid, but at this point and how depleted our secondary will be next season, I suspect Mo gets signed here even if he misses time.

 

[Jinxx13x]

I understand how some feel about him I for one have always been pulling for Claiborne but that's another story. Honestly we are at a fork in the road and a decision is going to have to made.

1- Believe in our guy get a team friendly deal done now somewhere around 7-9 mil a season and lock him up !

Or

2- Wait till the end of our season maybe Claiborne makes the pro-bowl and now signing him becomes harder and more expensive !

I for one have to say we have had him for long enough to know what we have. It is time to get this deal done now at a team friendly rate if possible, if we don't we are forced to go CB in beginning of draft since we will be losing Carr as well. Our line needs help so we need to keep our options open signing Claiborne allows us flexibility in the draft !

Get er done Jerry!

 

[big dog cowboy]

I would consider locking up Cliaborne now

We will have to immediately when the season is over. We don't have the resources (we do but it would be stupid to do that) to replace him and Carr both.

 

[speedkilz88]

Spagnola: Never, Ever Has There Been More Meaning To Mo’ Better

Friday, September 23, 2016 6:13 PM CDT
Mickey Spagnola
DallasCowboys.com Columnist

FRISCO, Texas – The smile these days is high wattage. Electric, in fact.So gratifying to see if you’ve taken the time to get to know him just a little bit. So deserving. So refreshing.

Morris Claiborne finally is that Morris Claiborne before the 2012 NFL Draft. That hardworking, talented kid from Shreveport, La., who lit up the SEC while at LSU. Whose talent would cause 102,000 people in Death Valley to rise in anticipation when he trotted out in place to return kickoffs.

Yeah, that guy, the Dallas Cowboys’ sixth pick in the 2012 NFL Draft. The same one so many have wanted to pick on over the previous four years, wanted to get rid of, his career seemingly stuck in this valley of mediocrity.

“I feel like that player (at LSU) again. I feel like I have confidence, that I can go out and play with anybody. I feel like I can cover any receiver, and there’s not even a little doubt in my mind that I can’t,” said ‘Mo’ the other day in the Ford Center.

And he smiles, one screaming of relief, as if to say, well, finally.

Sure, it’s only two games into the 2016 NFL season, with the glare of Sunday Night Football coming up at 7:30 p.m. when the Dallas Cowboys (1-1) meet the Chicago Bears (0-2) at AT&T Stadium on national TV. He’ll most assuredly be a storyline during that broadcast, and deservedly so. If not for Cowboys linebacker Sean Lee being, well, Sean Lee, leading the team with 25 tackles, the narrative about a suspect Cowboys defense coming into the season would be this:

Morris Claiborne has been the best, most consistent Cowboys player on defense through the offseason, through training camp, through preseason and through the first two games of the season.

Hands down.



MORE






http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2016/09/23/spagnola-never-ever-has-there-been-more-meaning-mo’-better

 

[Risen Star]

We will have to immediately when the season is over. We don't have the resources (we do but it would be stupid to do that) to replace him and Carr both.

It wouldn't surprise me if Winicki took out a personal loan.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I'm guessing Cowboy fans have been so deprived of actual good cornerback play that they accept what best could be described as middling play.

Claiborne doesn't have a single pass defensed (PDs) this year (according to both ESPN and NFL.com) and all I hear is how well he's playing. I've already highlighted earlier how his seemingly early "success" has really been a charade, as he's still giving up easy receptions, poor technique (which leads to him reaching/holding penalties) and the fact he's benefitted from QBs missing throws to bail him out.

Marcus Peter in just two games this year has 5 PDs and 2 INTs already. This is a cornerback that makes plays on the ball.

In 18 career games, Peters has 10 INTs and 31 PDs.

Anyone wanna take a guess what Mo's accomplished in 42 games? 22 PDs (Peters had 26 his rookie season alone) and 3 INTs:

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

It's funny because dude got threatening over something that subsequent stats in this thread have thoroughly debunked. Haven't seen the mea culpa though. He's now devolved into just wait and I'll be right later mode. So we've got anger and negotiation. Acceptance will be along before too long.

What's funny is you ignore two years worth of cumulative data from PFF, but think Burn Rate (which I'm sure based on your demonstrated capacity don't have a clue what it actually means) somehow trumps it.

But have at it; the simple-minded are always easily impressed.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He actually got rubbed on that play.

Ball is snapped and he immediately opens his hips up to the sideline (i.e. the wrong direction); Garçon is breaking inside hard on a quick slant; he's late to recover.

And let me educate you on the "Burn Rate" metric you think 'debunks' the criticism of Mo.

Burn Rate is simply "the percentage of targets for every defender that resulted in catches." That's it. It doesn't account for off-target throws, dropped passes, passes completed out of bounds, in other words, factors that have nothing to do with the CB.

Let me further spell this out for you. A CB could be covering a receiver and be beaten every time, but his QB sails the ball over his wideout's head on each throw. Guess what the Burn Rate says? That's a shutdown CB. And guys like you lap it up.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I'm guessing Cowboy fans have been so deprived of actual good cornerback play that they accept what best could be described as middling play.

Claiborne doesn't have a single pass defensed (PDs) this year (according to both ESPN and NFL.com) and all I hear is how well he's playing. I've already highlighted earlier how his seemingly early "success" has really been a charade, as he's still giving up easy receptions, poor technique (which leads to him reaching/holding penalties) and the fact he's benefitted from QBs missing throws to bail him out.

Marcus Peter in just two games this year has 5 PDs and 2 INTs already. This is a cornerback that makes plays on the ball.

In 18 career games, Peters has 10 INTs and 31 PDs.

Anyone wanna take a guess what Mo's accomplished in 42 games? 22 PDs (Peters had 26 his rookie season alone) and 3 INTs:

Richard Sherman has 0 PD's and 0 interceptions so is Marcus Peter better than him and is Sherman a bum? Marcus Peter is a fine player but you pretending like cornerback play is justified by how many deflections and interceptions you get is just as silly as the burn rate you tried to denounce.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Richard Sherman has 0 PD's and 0 interceptions so is Marcus Peter better than him and is Sherman a bum? Marcus Peter is a fine player but you pretending like cornerback play is justified by how many deflections and interceptions you get is just as silly as the burn rate you tried to denounce.

Brilliant.

Do you really wanna debate Sherman vs. Mo?

Stats aren't the end-all-be-all, but they help paint a picture of how a player performs on the field. Mo has demonstrated throughout his career he does not make plays on the ball. Can the same be said about Sherman. Please, try to dispute that, lol?

As to the Burn Rate stat you wanna glom to and try to hang your hat on, please go ahead and tell me why this stat is a reliable indicator when it does not account for poor throws, dropped passes, passes completed out-of-bounds, et cetera.

Consider it a test of intellectual honesty. Go for it.

 

[Idgit]

I'm guessing Cowboy fans have been so deprived of actual good cornerback play that they accept what best could be described as middling play.

Claiborne doesn't have a single pass defensed (PDs) this year (according to both ESPN and NFL.com) and all I hear is how well he's playing. I've already highlighted earlier how his seemingly early "success" has really been a charade, as he's still giving up easy receptions, poor technique (which leads to him reaching/holding penalties) and the fact he's benefitted from QBs missing throws to bail him out.

Marcus Peter in just two games this year has 5 PDs and 2 INTs already. This is a cornerback that makes plays on the ball.

In 18 career games, Peters has 10 INTs and 31 PDs.

Anyone wanna take a guess what Mo's accomplished in 42 games? 22 PDs (Peters had 26 his rookie season alone) and 3 INTs:

"They?"

 

[stilltheguru88]

Marcus Peter's has been terrible this year. lol Keenan allen would've had 20 catches on that dude if he didn't get hurt. it was hilarious to watch actually

 

[mattjames2010]

Brilliant.

Do you really wanna debate Sherman vs. Mo?

Stats aren't the end-all-be-all, but they help paint a picture of how a player performs on the field. Mo has demonstrated throughout his career he does not make plays on the ball. Can the same be said about Sherman. Please, try to dispute that, lol?

As to the Burn Rate stat you wanna glom to and try to hang your hat on, please go ahead and tell me why this stat is a reliable indicator when it does not account for poor throws, dropped passes, passes completed out-of-bounds, et cetera.

Consider it a test of intellectual honesty. Go for it.

And you already got stats. You are simply choosing to accept them when they fit your narrative.

And his argument wasn't saying Mo is better than Sherman, he was using your logic against you. Man, you're thick.

 

[Jstopper]

The truth is..if the Cowboys could draft after the 1st round Mo and Carr would already be gone. Mo is very average at best and is playing for whats left of his pro career.

I've noticed quite a few of your posts on various topics. You seem to be on the wrong side of the fence on almost everything. Pity.

 

[mattjames2010]

1. No, it would not mean "they are the same" - It's pointing out that the INT statistic for CBs is not a great indicator on their all-around play. I thought this was pretty damn clear. Here is your qualifier: It's okay for Sherman to have 0 INTs, Claiborne must have INTs or else he's doing something wrong. Yet, we show you the statistics, and it's starting to line up as to why he has no INTs.

2. Mo had a decent rookie season, not great, but on average to what most rookie CBs do. His second year was injury plagued and nothing to write home about, he played poorly at the beginning of the 2014 season and got injured. 2015, and I will once again tell you to go back to this time last year when I was providing statistics, game clips, screenshots of Claiborne's play. He was the very reason Jones, OBJ, and Cooks all had little production in the game we faced them. Jones went off in the second half AFTER they started to move him around. His worst game came against Mike Evans, which I have stated, Claiborne will struggle against those big long WRs, such as Evans, Green, Marshall, and Jeffrey.

3. PFF is UK based, they use NFL Rewind to watch and grade games. This article here discusses why they most likely do not use all-22

https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/

" the All-22 film doesn’t come out until mid-week, which is after PFF has posted their initial grades- so they’re not using it, at least in their first gradings"

It's quite simple, you lost. No one is saying Mo will go on to have a great season, as of right now, he has been a good to great corner. MO IS NOT a top corner, no one is saying he is, but he has become a damn good man to man corner and is improving in the zone each week. He is NOT getting targeted a lot, he's not giving up big plays, and he's certainly not allowing yards after the catch to happen.

Why you're so hellbent on being on the opposition is odd. You got the stats thrown right at you and you're still arguing.

Here is where we'll leave it: Either you provide statistics and game film now to counter the burn statistics or you sit down.

 

[locked&loaded]

Lol, this thread is hilarious. Mostly because I picture posters on this site as either 14 year olds or 45 year olds with beer guts.

 

[haleyrules]

Lol, this thread is hilarious. Mostly because I picture posters on this site as either 14 year olds or 45 year olds with beer guts.

lol. Mostly 14 yr olds by the looks of their posts.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

1. No, it would not mean "they are the same" - It's pointing out that the INT statistic for CBs is not a great indicator on their all-around play. I thought this was pretty damn clear. Here is your qualifier: It's okay for Sherman to have 0 INTs, Claiborne must have INTs or else he's doing something wrong. Yet, we show you the statistics, and it's starting to line up as to why he has no INTs.

Brilliant. And you continue to ignore what I wrote in context because you're foaming at the mouth thinking something profound has been said. I said clearly, statistics are not the end-all-be-all, but simply help to paint an overall picture of how a player is performing on the field. Agree or disagree?

The thought exercise fails because two things can be equally and possibly true: 1) Sherman is struggling this year and 2) Mo is struggling this year.
Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from. I'm not interested in comparing the two, but since you are, why aren't we looking at the longitudinal data (past performance, year-after-year)? I can tell you why...because you wanna make this only about two games, lol.

"it's starting to line up as to why he (Mo) has no INTs."

Loool, smh.

2. Mo had a decent rookie season, not great, but on average to what most rookie CBs do. His second year was injury plagued and nothing to write home about, he played poorly at the beginning of the 2014 season and got injured. 2015, and I will once again tell you to go back to this time last year when I was providing statistics, game clips, screenshots of Claiborne's play. He was the very reason Jones, OBJ, and Cooks all had little production in the game we faced them. Jones went off in the second half AFTER they started to move him around. His worst game came against Mike Evans, which I have stated, Claiborne will struggle against those big long WRs, such as Evans, Green, Marshall, and Jeffrey.

Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game.

3. PFF is UK based, they use NFL Rewind to watch and grade games. This article here discusses why they most likely do not use all-22

https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/

"the All-22 film doesn’t come out until mid-week, which is after PFF has posted their initial grades- so they’re not using it, at least in their first gradings"

It's quite simple, you lost. No one is saying Mo will go on to have a great season, as of right now, he has been a good to great corner. MO IS NOT a top corner, no one is saying he is, but he has become a damn good man to man corner and is improving in the zone each week. He is NOT getting targeted a lot, he's not giving up big plays, and he's certainly not allowing yards after the catch to happen.

Why you're so hellbent on being on the opposition is odd. You got the stats thrown right at you and you're still arguing.

Here is where we'll leave it: Either you provide statistics and game film now to counter the burn statistics or you sit down.

Lol, I love it "you lost," because you said so. Brilliant.

Cool speculation in that article. Here's a quote from an actual PFF Analyst (Khaled Elsayed) from a MMQB article:

"When in doubt, Elsayed will flag plays for further review when the All-22 coaches’ film becomes available. “Am I being generous?” he writes after assigning a +1 grade to Eli Manning on a touchdown pass to Larry Donnell. It was a good throw, but the cornerback made the quarterback’s job easier by hesitating in coverage. On a 20-yard touchdown run by Alfred Morris, safety Antrel Rolle is only seen on the TV broadcast at the end of the play, trailing Morris. “One of the problems is, you can’t just go straight over the top—he’s got to defend the cutback,” Elsayed says. “But I need a different angle to see that. Another analyst might decide, when he looks at the All-22, that he was slow over the top. No grade for Rolle right now.”

That's a quote DIRECTLY from a PFF analyst. Unfortunately, you'll have to stop parroting the baseless speculation that they don't use ALL22. Find a new angle to hang your hat on.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

A few of you need to knock off the personal attacks.

 

[rpntex]

Brilliant. And you continue to ignore what I wrote in context because you're foaming at the mouth thinking something profound has been said. I said clearly, statistics are not the end-all-be-all, but simply help to paint an overall picture of how a player is performing on the field. Agree or disagree?

The thought exercise fails because two things can be equally and possibly true: 1) Sherman is struggling this year and 2) Mo is struggling this year.
Beyond that, two games is too small a sample size to draw conclusions from. I'm not interested in comparing the two, but since you are, why aren't we looking at the longitudinal data (past performance, year-after-year)? I can tell you why...because you wanna make this only about two games, lol.

"it's starting to line up as to why he (Mo) has no INTs."

Loool, smh.



Claiborne also gave up a crucial late TD against DeSean Jackson last season with :49 in the 4th QTR to let the Skins tie the game.



Lol, I love it "you lost," because you said so. Brilliant.

Cool speculation in that article. Here's a quote from an actual PFF Analyst (Khaled Elsayed) from a MMQB article:

"When in doubt, Elsayed will flag plays for further review when the All-22 coaches’ film becomes available. “Am I being generous?” he writes after assigning a +1 grade to Eli Manning on a touchdown pass to Larry Donnell. It was a good throw, but the cornerback made the quarterback’s job easier by hesitating in coverage. On a 20-yard touchdown run by Alfred Morris, safety Antrel Rolle is only seen on the TV broadcast at the end of the play, trailing Morris. “One of the problems is, you can’t just go straight over the top—he’s got to defend the cutback,” Elsayed says. “But I need a different angle to see that. Another analyst might decide, when he looks at the All-22, that he was slow over the top. No grade for Rolle right now.”

That's a quote DIRECTLY from a PFF analyst. Unfortunately, you'll have to stop parroting the baseless speculation that they don't use ALL22. Find a new angle to hang your hat on.

Gosh dude... be careful to not strain your back moving the goalposts all by yourself like that.

When I open the thread, I swore the subject was "Moe had a great game". I'm no Rhodes Scholar, but I do believe that refers to a single game. One thing I know for certain is the title of the threat is not "Mo has had a great career". Yet you are hell-bent on pulling it examples of happened since he came into the league. No one is arguing effective he's been , With regards to the entirety of his career. That is… No one except you.