my 2 cents on tucker..

[Hiero]

I do find it extremely interesting that everyone and their brother was ready to write Tucker off as a worthless waste of space in preseason at RT, but suddenly don't feel he is a dropoff replacing Flozell at LT. Heck, some are even spinning this as a long term upgrade.

ya a lot of people are trying to spin this off as positive for hte long run, and what it really does is just give us another need we have to fill, instead of just getting talented guys. Tucker hasnt done anything since last year to prove he's capable of starting, heck he probably disproved himself. I don't see how so many people are acting like Tucker is gonna fill in for Flozell and not miss a beat.

 

[InmanRoshi]

ya a lot of people are trying to spin this off as positive for hte long run, and what it really does is just give us another need we have to fill, instead of just getting talented guys. Tucker hasnt done anything since last year to prove he's capable of starting, heck he probably disproved himself. I don't see how so many people are acting like Tucker is gonna fill in for Flozell and not miss a beat.

If you would have said 3 weeks ago that the the defense would be better with Dat missing and Bradie James missing making the defensive calls, you would have been called every name in the book by the self titled "realists".

Flozell pretty much falls in the same category as Dat, IMHO. He's become a security blanket player. He's not anything special, but he's a known commodity, so we tend to overrate his impact on the team because we're so terrified of unknown commodities. And when his position is filled in with a messageboard persona non-grata like Bradie James or Torrin Tucker (who only became messageboard persona non-gratas because they descended so far from at one time messageboard heros), then the anxiety level is increased.

 

[kmd24]

Grant Winstrom is licking his chops!!!

Last night he had steak ala Tucker...mash potaotes...ala Tucker...and finished with some cheescake...ala Tucker.

Hope he saved room for a nice stack of pancakes a la Tucker!

 

[lurkercowboy]

If you would have said 3 weeks ago that the the defense would be better with Dat missing and Bradie James missing making the defensive calls, you would have been called every name in the book by the self titled "realists".

Flozell pretty much falls in the same category as Dat, IMHO. He's become a security blanket player. He's not anything special, but he's a known commodity, so we tend to overrate his impact on the team because we're so terrified of unknown commodities. And when his position is filled in with a messageboard persona non-grata like Bradie James or Torrin Tucker (who only became messageboard persona non-gratas because they descended so far from at one time messageboard heros), then the anxiety level is increased.

Interesting observation.

 

[THUMPER]

i think torrin can due a good job. while his early camp and first exibition game were scary, he played alot better from there and i thought he closed the gap on rob a little bit, eventhought rob was improving himself, with each game. also, torrin might have helped himself while mentoring rob during each game by improving his focus and understanding of their responsibilities on each play. he seems to be team oriented and pretty atheletic which will help on the left side.

as far as helping rob or torrin, i know no player recieves help on every play. in fact, i'd say rob was on his own for nearly 50 % of the plays. i think game plan will reflect this and help will be available where ever needed.

now i'm a new fan and a former giant fan at that, but after watching ellis and ware completely manhandle the giant tackles, i'd say torrin and rob are capable of doing a much better job.

go boys!!

After watching the job Orlando Pace did against Dwight Freeny last night, and considering how badly Freeny abused Jonathan Ogden in week-1, I am less than enthused about the prospect of Tucker manning the LT position for us.

Personally, I would much rather see Petitti at LT and Tucker at RT. Rob has the footwork and balance needed to play the position correctly while Tucker has never impressed in either department. Both guys have the size and strength but I think Rob has better skills overall than Tucker. The only advantage Tucker has is that he has played longer in the NFL and would have a shorter learning curve.

The fact that Pettiti played LT in college leads me to believe he would be a better choice.

 

[silver]

After watching the job Orlando Pace did against Dwight Freeny last night, and considering how badly Freeny abused Jonathan Ogden in week-1, I am less than enthused about the prospect of Tucker manning the LT position for us.

Personally, I would much rather see Petitti at LT and Tucker at RT. Rob has the footwork and balance needed to play the position correctly while Tucker has never impressed in either department. Both guys have the size and strength but I think Rob has better skills overall than Tucker. The only advantage Tucker has is that he has played longer in the NFL and would have a shorter learning curve.

The fact that Pettiti played LT in college leads me to believe he would be a better choice.

eventually maybe, but not this year. BP hates moving too many guys around. i remember campo's tenure when he moved everybody around and it was hell.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

All i have to say is 3rd and 50.

 

[Hostile]

All i have to say is 3rd and 50.

I shouldn't laugh but I was there.

 

[junk]

Remember how losing Dat was going to be a monumental and irreplacable loss on the defense two weeks ago, because Bradie was deemed a 'POS' player after his first two years in the league?

Is it any more interesting than Tucker going from promising young player to worthless waste of space in his second year in the league to some?

The instant talent evaluators that Parcells commonly refer to abound on both sides of the coin. For some reason, the illogical ones on one side are the supposed "realists" and the illogical ones on the other side are the "head in the clouds optimists", but in the end they are both illogical. This is messageboard land, where players are either promising beams of light or POS's, and there is very little in between. And if you fall from one side to the other, heaven help you. You'll never get a fair evaluation for the rest of your career. Ask Bradie James.

Well, how are Dat and Bradie a comparison? Last time I checked, they play different positions. However, I think I see what you are getting at. A player who stepped up in an injured vet's stead. Shanle might have been more appropriate.

James, although he has played better this year, was still involved in the gaffe at the end of the Giants game that almost cost Dallas a win. I seriously doubt Dat misses getting that coverage call sorted out. Shanle's big plays in the nickel have dropped off since he is playing full time as well.

My point, I guess, is that I think the defense has improved due to the familiarity with the defense and the abundance of nickel being played. I think it would have been even better had it not lost Dat. While James has proved to be serviceable as opposed to being a liability like last year, the presence of Nguyen will help the defense on his return. He was consistently making plays.

So, back to the original thought. Tucker is out and people are spinning it as positive, which I don't understand. Your point, I believe, is that Tucker may indeed step up and be serviceable. We may not see the offense miss a beat similar to the way we have seen James step up in the 3-4 (or Shanle in Nguyen's absence). I sincerely hope that is the case and my concern is unfounded.

That doesn't diminish the fact that the team is losing a starting left tackle who has been to the Pro Bowl. Inconsistent as his play may be, he was still the best LT on the roster or he wouldn't have been starting. So, now your depth becomes your starter and your depth disappears. Add into the mix a QB who is only as effective as his pass blocking combined with a guy who was ineffective at RT last year and has no game experience there and you have a recipe for disaster in my book.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

All i have to say is 3rd and 50.

I shouldn't laugh but I was there.

It's one of those jokes where you're crying about how sad it was to watch but at the same time laughing your butt off.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Let me just say that there's nothing more that I would like to do than to wind up eating crow about Torrin Tucker. From everything I read and heard, he's a good kid and that would be great for him to succeed (especially since LT's get paid $$$$).

I'll be rooting for him, but I can't say I'm too optimistic.


Rich........

 

[junk]

Let me just say that there's nothing more that I would like to do than to wind up eating crow about Torrin Tucker. From everything I read and heard, he's a good kid and that would be great for him to succeed (especially since LT's get paid $$$$).

I'll be rooting for him, but I can't say I'm too optimistic.


Rich........

My sentiments exactly.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Great thread.

We've seen how our team responds to certain types of adversities.

This week it's the season ending injury to a starter and a key contributor.

It's nice to know that 2 of our primary back-ups have experience. Torrin and Gurode presence on the roster this week are invaluable. Gurode and Peterman can hold down the Guard spots should they decide to move LA or Rivera.

It's great to have depth. We've seen what injuries have done to this team in the past 10 seasons. I recall the Cowboys starting a Olineman right off the street in 2002.....I think Jeremy Mckinney.

Now we have quality depth at WR and experience depth on the Oline.

It's be interesting to see how the team responds. Good teams like the Eagles and Patriots can lose contributors like Law or Buckhalter but are good enough to stay in the race.

I think the next 2 games leading up to the bye week will again tell us alot about our team.

I think that might be one of the things I like most about this team. In the late 90's, whenever we'd lose one of our remaining Super Bowl vets, the team would go down the drain quick. In recent years, just a few injuries have hurt the poor overachieving team. Maybe Parcells roster management has gotten to the point now where the Cowboys have enough depth to survive the unthinkable just like New England has in recent years.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Well, how are Dat and Bradie a comparison? Last time I checked, they play different positions. However, I think I see what you are getting at. A player who stepped up in an injured vet's stead. Shanle might have been more appropriate.

James, although he has played better this year, was still involved in the gaffe at the end of the Giants game that almost cost Dallas a win. I seriously doubt Dat misses getting that coverage call sorted out. Shanle's big plays in the nickel have dropped off since he is playing full time as well.

My point, I guess, is that I think the defense has improved due to the familiarity with the defense and the abundance of nickel being played. I think it would have been even better had it not lost Dat. While James has proved to be serviceable as opposed to being a liability like last year, the presence of Nguyen will help the defense on his return. He was consistently making plays.

So, back to the original thought. Tucker is out and people are spinning it as positive, which I don't understand. Your point, I believe, is that Tucker may indeed step up and be serviceable. We may not see the offense miss a beat similar to the way we have seen James step up in the 3-4 (or Shanle in Nguyen's absence). I sincerely hope that is the case and my concern is unfounded.

That doesn't diminish the fact that the team is losing a starting left tackle who has been to the Pro Bowl. Inconsistent as his play may be, he was still the best LT on the roster or he wouldn't have been starting. So, now your depth becomes your starter and your depth disappears. Add into the mix a QB who is only as effective as his pass blocking combined with a guy who was ineffective at RT last year and has no game experience there and you have a recipe for disaster in my book.

Missing Dat effected James playing time as much as Shanle. James plays 100% of the snaps now, as before he was playing 50%. Ditto for Shanle. James was supposed to have been a liability in pass coverage, but we've played passing heavy teams the past two weeks who run a lot of nickel sets, and have shut them down for the most port. The point is that the "realists" were mocking Nors and some others for suggesting the team wouldn't miss Dat that much, and it turns out Nors was right (he's been right far more often that the supposed "knowledgable" posters).

To say someone "spins" implies that someone is either unknowing of the truth or disingenous about it. I've seen the chicken littles and the self titled "realists" too wrong, too often in the past 6 months (starting with our QB, and lately with missing Dat) to believe they happen to have the copyright of truth and knowledge over the optimists. I'm not spinning anything. I honestly don't believe Flozell Adams is a good enough player to single handedly make or break a season. And I don't believe that Tucker is as bad as some say, otherwise Parcells wouldn't have kept him through multiple rounds of cuts instead of Vollers.

 

[jterrell]

Good stuff here.
BTW, I saw Rob at Coppell Deli and good grief that is a big kiddo you have.
I didnt bother him because he looked hungry

Man the burgers there are greatness!!

 

[DLCassidy]

I honestly don't believe Flozell Adams is a good enough player to single handedly make or break a season. And I don't believe that Tucker is as bad as some say, otherwise Parcells wouldn't have kept him instead of Vollers.

I was optimistic about Petiti. That's gone pretty well. I was optimistic about Davis. That hasn't gone as well. Tucker flat out scares the heck out of me.

The issue isn't necessarily how good FA is, it's how much better he is than Tucker. It's a big deal because if Tucker misses an assignment it could be Bledsoe gets injured on a blindside hit and that's the end of our season. If Tucker was better than Vollers that doesn't say very much anyway. We're ALL rooting for Tucker. We're just worried.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I think moving Rob to left tackle and putting Tucker in at RT would be the best move. They both have more experience at those positions than the other way around.

The one thing that says "no" to this move is that Rivera and Petitti seem to have a pretty good rapport in pass blocking, IMO it is much better than what Allen and Adams have. How many times have we seen a blitzer or pass rusher split Adams and Allen? I guarantee you it's more than has happened on the right side.

The other thing, I would feel more comfortable with Petitti protecting the blind side instead of Tucker. But we just might have to give Tucker the help on the left side and let Rob go man to man. The guy to watch for Seattle is Chartric Darby inside. He was the one that made Rob look bad in preseason on a stunt.

 

[Givincer]

The one thing that says "no" to this move is that Rivera and Petitti seem to have a pretty good rapport in pass blocking, IMO it is much better than what Allen and Adams have. How many times have we seen a blitzer or pass rusher split Adams and Allen? I guarantee you it's more than has happened on the right side.

How many times has Rivera been pushed right back into the face of Drew Bledsoe?? I guarentee its more than Larry Allen... Rivera better step up his game he's been embarassed as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure the guy has some pride and when he looks at the film he has to know he has to step up his game...

 

[junk]

Missing Dat effected James playing time as much as Shanle. James plays 100% of the snaps now, as before he was playing 50%. Ditto for Shanle. James was supposed to have been a liability in pass coverage, but we've played passing heavy teams the past two weeks who run a lot of nickel sets, and have shut them down for the most port. The point is that the "realists" were mocking Nors and some others for suggesting the team wouldn't miss Dat that much, and it turns out Nors was right (he's been right far more often that the supposed "knowledgable" posters).

To say someone "spins" implies that someone is either unknowing of the truth or disingenous about it. I've seen the chicken littles and the self titled "realists" too wrong, too often in the past 6 months (starting with our QB, and lately with missing Dat) to believe they happen to have the copyright of truth and knowledge over the optimists. I'm not spinning anything. I honestly don't believe Flozell Adams is a good enough player to single handedly make or break a season. And I don't believe that Tucker is as bad as some say, otherwise Parcells wouldn't have kept him through multiple rounds of cuts instead of Vollers.

I don't really seeing you trying to sell this as a positive rather as something you think the team can overcome. Thats a fair assessment and I do hope its true.

However, there are people claiming this is a positive thing. There is no way I am buying that. I still think, long term, the loss of Nguyen will affect this team. So will the loss of Jones, Crayton, and Adams for extended periods of time. Bottom line, the team lost its starting LT and has shoddy depth at the position.

We have knowledgeable posters around here? Could of fooled me.
In reality, we are all a bunch of arm chair hacks just taking a swipe at it.

I don't know how Nors got brought into this. I go back and forth with him as much as anyone. He can be pretty astute at times. You just have to get past all of his pointed attempts to annoy, endless self promotion, his belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with him and the nasty grams he sends via PMs. If you can drag him into a football conversation, he isn't bad.