My case for Ted Ginn, Jr.

[Beast_from_East]

Listen why not take a chance, where are all those draft Carpenter guys, stand up and show us any highlight from last year and getting BP some water doesn't count. Listen this guy could be a bust but he has such a fantastic potential and our window is closing don't you take a shot, he's one of a kind, and he won't make #22. The folks that say don't do it, I'll show you somebody will before #22 just watch. Scouts see it, he's got" it "short, small or otherwise. UT could not cover this guy, they had an NFL secondary last year, he's big league just wait..

If he is not going to make it to #22, why are we having this dicussion?

And no, no, no, to the possibility of trading up for him. Trading up for a kick returner in the 1st round that has not recovered from a sprained ankle 3 freaking months later is just DUMB.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I'm all for Ginn, he's one of my favourite guys in the draft. He's anything but a sure thing though, so I understand everyone's reservations

He fits in perfect on our team though. We have our starters. Ginn won't be pressured to take on a big role until 2 years down the line. This year, he can come in and do what he does best--run deep and KR/PR--while learning from a couple of smart, wily veterans (and a pretty good receivers coach as well). Ginn would make an immediate impact, unlike the other receivers. Bowe, Jarrett, and to a lesser extent, Meachem, wouldn't have a set role. Moreover, these WRs may be better bets in the short term, but not one of them has Ginn's potential.

Ginn is the fastest football player I've ever seen. He'd have a role on the team, in the short run, and a potential to be a #1 receiver in the long run (the other guys seem like #2s to me). We're not getting sure things at 22. Ginn is worth the risk.

If Ginn's foot was not all jacked up, you might could make a point. However, if I am going to blow a mid 1st rounder on somebody, he better be running faster than 4.4s 3 freaking months after spraining his ankle.

As far as I am concerned, without the speed he is useless. Right now he has lost his speed. Noway I draft him without first seeing him run 4.35.

Drafting him and hoping he gets speed back is just DUMB.

 

[Achozen]

That was a great report on why we SHOULD TAKE GINN.....enough said....let's take Ginn!

...Or not.

 

[SDogo]

And he could be had way later in the draft.......

Maybe that's why I mentioned him in the 5th or 6th round in this very thread

 

[DBoys]

Great post OP.

If Ginn is available at 22 we would be morons not to take him. We are in a perfect spot to take a chance in the 1st round. We can get a CB or LB in later rounds.

 

[Concord]

If Ginn's foot was not all jacked up, you might could make a point. However, if I am going to blow a mid 1st rounder on somebody, he better be running faster than 4.4s 3 freaking months after spraining his ankle.

As far as I am concerned, without the speed he is useless. Right now he has lost his speed. Noway I draft him without first seeing him run 4.35.

Drafting him and hoping he gets speed back is just DUMB.

He ran a 4.38...75% healthy.

Sorry it wasn't a 4.35

 

[Tristan]

I have no doubt in my mind that Ginn is the most dynamic, explosive player that we could realistically add to our team in this draft. As a pure playmaker, and special football player he is right under Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson IMO. His overrall impact on the game is immesurable.

If I were drafting, I get Ginn in a Cowboys helmet even if it means trading up. Just the joy and excitement of watching him and anticipating his every touch of the ball next year would be worth it to me.

I also think he is a much more versitile and complete WR than some give him credit for, his speed and dynamic playmaking ability could give us a Reggie Bush type dimension to our offense. Most people don't realize that he has bigger hands than Calvin Johnson.

Unfortunately the biggest doubt I do have is our chances of landing him at #22. I would be shocked if he doesnt go in the top fifteen. I just hope the Commanders don't like him as much as me.

 

[Rampage]

He ran a 4.38...75% healthy.

Sorry it wasn't a 4.35

75% healthy? what did he break something celebrating after his return?

 

[Concord]

75% healthy? what did he break something celebrating after his return?

You've been shown this before so this is the last time I'm going to enighten you.

If you consider this Ginn's fault...then there's no sense talking to you.

 

[Kevlee06]

75% healthy? what did he break something celebrating after his return?

I guess you don't realize there are different types of sprained ankles that take different amounts of time to heal. Plus, I don't think anyone really knows that it was a "sprained ankle". I've heard reports it was a "sprained foot". Whatever that means.

 

[Jake0]

You've been shown this before so this is the last time I'm going to enighten you.

If you consider this Ginn's fault...then there's no sense taking to you.

You have to explain it to him v e r y s l o w l y so he understands, apparently pictures are too hard to comprehend.

T E D G I N N D I D N O T H I N G T O C E L E B R A T E T H E T O U C H D O W N, H E W A S B L I N D S I D E T A C K L E D B Y H I S T E A M A T E W H O M A S Y O U C A N S E E F R O M T H E P I C T U R E D R O P P E D H I S *** L L W E I G H T O N T O H I S A N K L E.

*edit - ok so the stupid forum formatting cuts out any extra spaces after the first one so.. I think I just made things worse, oh well. Sorry!

 

[SDogo]

I have no doubt in my mind that Ginn is the most dynamic, explosive player that we could realistically add to our team in this draft. As a pure playmaker, and special football player he is right under Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson IMO. His overrall impact on the game is immesurable.

If I were drafting, I get Ginn in a Cowboys helmet even if it means trading up. Just the joy and excitement of watching him and anticipating his every touch of the ball next year would be worth it to me.

I also think he is a much more versitile and complete WR than some give him credit for, his speed and dynamic playmaking ability could give us a Reggie Bush type dimension to our offense. Most people don't realize that he has bigger hands than Calvin Johnson.

Unfortunately the biggest doubt I do have is our chances of landing him at #22. I would be shocked if he doesnt go in the top fifteen. I just hope the Commanders don't like him as much as me.

Unlike you, nothing would make me happier then to see the Commanders take Ginn. With the limited about of picks they have this year and have had over the last 3 years they can hardly afford to blow this years pick which is exactly what they would be doing taking Ginn.

Meachem ran a 4.39, is 2 inches taller, 37 pounds heavier, runs better routes, has better hands, is a better blocker but does not return kicks. If he did we would not even be having this discussion.

His asset is his speed not his WR skills. Speed is abundant in this draft.

Bowe-4.0
Allison-4.39
Hill 4.36
Robinson-4.38
Figurs-4.30

not to mention the dozen other prospects 4.41 or better.

Seems silly.

 

[DBoys]

Unlike you, nothing would make me happier then to see the Commanders take Ginn. With the limited about of picks they have this year and have had over the last 3 years they can hardly afford to blow this years pick which is exactly what they would be doing taking Ginn.

Meachem ran a 4.39, is 2 inches taller, 37 pounds heavier, runs better routes, has better hands, is a better blocker but does not return kicks. If he did we would not even be having this discussion.

His asset is his speed not his WR skills. Speed is abundant in this draft.

Bowe-4.0
Allison-4.39
Hill 4.36
Robinson-4.38
Figurs-4.30

not to mention the dozen other prospects 4.41 or better.

Seems silly.

None of those guys would make an impact next year unless they play special teams on the Cowboys.

Who needs to run routes when nobody can keep up with you?

You can't teach speed and he will put weight on in the gym. His vision, quickness, and breakway speed is very special. Just watching his cuts proves he could run routes.

There is a big difference between 4.4 and 4.3 and Ginn's top gear is phenominal.

 

[SDogo]

None of those guys would make an impact next year unless they play special teams on the Cowboys.

Who needs to run routes when nobody can keep up with you?

You can't teach speed and he will put weight on in the gym. His vision, quickness, and breakway speed is very special. Just watching his cuts proves he could run routes.

There is a big difference between 4.4 and 4.3 and Ginn's top gear is phenominal.

It's possible Ginn could not have an impact next year either. Austin did a fine job returning kicks towards the end of the year. Not often you spend a 1st round pick on a guy hoping it will AT LEAST contribute on special teams. That's insane.

All those guys I listed can run routes and cause fits for DB's just as well if not better then Ginn because they are route runners.

Ohio St has one of the best weight programs in the nation. I find it hard to believe he can just flip the switch and get bigger in the NFL.

There is not any difference between Meachems 4.39 and Ginn's 4.38 except Meachem has the size Ginn lacks which makes it that more impressive.

 

[jackrussell]

His asset is his speed not his WR skills. Speed is abundant in this draft.

Bowe-4.0
Allison-4.39
Hill 4.36
Robinson-4.38
Figurs-4.30

not to mention the dozen other prospects 4.41 or better.

Seems silly.

Now THAT'S silly.

But hey, I'd have to agree with you on something you said earlier. If we're just looking for a guy to just play WR....then Ginn is definitely not the guy.

But there are those of who can see the asset of having a guy that can play WR.....that can return punts....that can return kicks....that can play defensive back in a nickel...and can be used as an emergency QB.

Having that type would give the opportunity to address other needs...open roster spots and provide further depth.

So...there are those that can see the complexities...and others that can only see the simplicities.

Complex.

Simple.

 

[Concord]

Now THAT'S silly.

But hey, I'd have to agree with you on something you said earlier. If we're just looking for a guy to just play WR....then Ginn is definitely not the guy.

But there are those of who can see the asset of having a guy that can play WR.....that can return punts....that can return kicks....that can play defensive back in a nickel...and can be used as an emergency QB.

Having that type would give the opportunity to address other needs...open roster spots and provide further depth.

So...there are those that can see the complexities...and others that can only see the simplicities.

Complex.

Simple.

:laugh2:

What Bowe didn't run a 4.0?

 

[SDogo]

Now THAT'S silly.

But hey, I'd have to agree with you on something you said earlier. If we're just looking for a guy to just play WR....then Ginn is definitely not the guy.

But there are those of who can see the asset of having a guy that can play WR.....that can return punts....that can return kicks....that can play defensive back in a nickel...and can be used as an emergency QB.

Having that type would give the opportunity to address other needs...open roster spots and provide further depth.

So...there are those that can see the complexities...and others that can only see the simplicities.

Complex.

Simple.

Patrick Crayton is the emergency QB. Where in blue heck have you ever seen or heard of Ginn playing QB? We have kick returners. If we want a CB we can draft one.

Once again, I'll take a true WR who will be a big part of the offense for the next 10 years over Ginn to return kicks and provide spot duty at WR till inevitably the NFL takes it's toll on his small frame from returning kicks.

 

[lspain1]

Patrick Crayton is the emergency QB. Where in blue heck have you ever seen or heard of Ginn playing QB? We have kick returners. If we want a CB we can draft one.

Once again, I'll take a true WR who will be a big part of the offense for the next 10 years over Ginn to return kicks and provide spot duty at WR till inevitably the NFL takes it's toll on his small frame from returning kicks.

I'm interested in the 'small frame' argument. Even assuming kick returns....how many plays does a WR actually get tackled in a game? The average number of passes thrown to a WR has to be less than 15. The average number of kick returns is something like four or five perhaps? So that's 20 plays a game where heavy contact maight oocur. Given missed passes, sideline plays, and other factors, the actual number of heavy impacts taken is a lot less than a running back.

Terry Glenn is listed as 5-11 and 195. That doesn't strike me as a large frame for a WR and he has stayed healthy. Ginn may not be the right guy for the Cowboys...but the 'small frame' argument seems to lack a certain...weight IMO.

 

[SDogo]

I'm interested in the 'small frame' argument. Even assuming kick returns....how many plays does a WR actually get tackled in a game? The average number of passes thrown to a WR has to be less than 15. The average number of kick returns is something like four or five perhaps? So that's 20 plays a game where heavy contact maight oocur. Given missed passes, sideline plays, and other factors, the actual number of heavy impacts taken is a lot less than a running back.

Terry Glenn is listed as 5-11 and 195. That doesn't strike me as a large frame for a WR and he has stayed healthy. Ginn may not be the right guy for the Cowboys...but the 'small frame' argument seems to lack a certain...weight IMO.

I don't have the numbers at my disposal but I read in a old SI article how a certain percentage of injuries to players increase greatly among returners. Glenn may be a bad example, while short in stature like Ginn he weighs almost 20 pounds more and has not exactly been the pintical of health over the course of his career. Glen has played in all 16 games only 3 times in 12 years. In those 12 years he had season where he has missed 7, 6 and 10 games in a season due to injuries. In his career he has only played all 16 games just once and that was in 2005.

 

[Idgit]

Steve Smith runs way better routes and has great hands

David

D'ya think?
The point isn't that Ginn is the next Steve Smith. The point is, you can't dismiss him solely based off of his size.